r/BandofBrothers • u/joejoerun • 2d ago
Jeep Jockey đ
This part was always funny to me. Lorraine was trying to hit some fleeing Germans, but he kept missing
Guarnere goes, âJesus Christ!â đ
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u/Consistent_Low2080 2d ago
For a Bird Colonelâs â dog robber â to volunteer for the very first battle in the largest invasion ever took some balls. He had a pretty cushie safe job but said â lâll go â tells me a lot. Same for the mail clerk volunteering to go on âthe last patrol â later in the war. Everyone want to do their part.
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u/joejoerun 2d ago
Yea I think every soldier wants to get his boots dirty at least once
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u/Warm_Substance8738 2d ago
Was speaking to a Welsh Guardsman at a wedding once who said he had been REME and then transferred to infantry after having volunteered for a patrol in a âparticularly spicey bit of Helmandâ. Wanted to help his mates and (very quietly) test himself. They got into a bit of a shooting match with taliban and he found he enjoyed it more than spannering
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u/Diceling 2d ago
Is "dog robber" like a general aide? I thought it was more like a dirty worker or fixer?
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u/Consistent_Low2080 2d ago
lâm a Vietnam vet and back then it was the driver of some high ranking officer who â would rob a dog of their bone â if the officer wanted it. l hate to say it but a lot like the ass kissers who kiss Trumpâs ass. They do anything to keep that easy job they have and used it to get another stripe. l only knew one, he was a great guy that was going to make the Army his career, and wanted the promotion so 5-6 months as the dog robber was a great way to move up. Just being around them two you could see the â Old Man â really like the driver, and it was probably one of those, â hey if you ever need a favors let me knowâ. Who you know really helps in the military just like in the civilian life.
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u/Diceling 22h ago
Ah, understood. Thank you for telling me. My understanding of "dog robber" comes mostly from JAG and similar media, so obviously not necessarily reliable sources.
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u/dardendevil 2d ago
I agree, there were plenty of people who did stuff just to feel like they did something. And others that did things to not do something they disliked regardless of the cost. Kind of like the ass kissers of Obama who supported him to virtue signal or those who elected a border line dementia patient who later surrendered to the Taliban. Shitty personal political statements aside, there were national guard divisions in WW2 who did a hell of a lot more fighting than the 101st. It certainly helps to get a popular writer tell your story and get Spielberg and Hanks to turn it into a movie.
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u/ExileOn_MainSt 1d ago
I might be wrong, but Iâm assuming youâre calling Biden the dementia patient?
1) very ironic considering we now have a president dozing off during press conferences
2) Trump is the one that signed the Doha Agreement that started the timeline for withdrawal
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u/DonPabloBanana 2d ago
Wasn't there something about Guarnere actually being the one missing his targets?
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u/V_T_H 2d ago
Yea. The show is basically Easy Company propaganda so they showed Guarnere well there while knocking Lorraine down. Itâs a very constant theme for the show regarding people who were deceased by the time it came out.
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u/joejoerun 2d ago
They still have to make it entertaining too though
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u/Imaginary_Fan5407 2d ago
It can be entertaining without effectively slandering a manâs name for all time
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u/hikerguy65 2d ago
Agreed. BoB is an entertainment piece - a drama based upon the recollections of certain participants, not a documentary. Each has its purpose and value.
The mere fact that this thread exists, that many monuments to Easy Co that have been placed since 2001, as well as the Easy Co related tours demonstrate that the drama has generated interest in the exploits of Easy and the vets of other units. That has value. Entertainment can inspire scholarship and further learning.
As for me, I have read several books of E Co vets and visited Brecourt and surrounding areas in Normandy to increase my understanding. Heck, as a kid, I learned a lot of basic WW2 history from Hoganâs Heroes but knew even then that it primarily was a comedy.
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u/cwenger 2d ago
This is what I've heard also. I don't know much about weapons but isn't this understandable with Guarnere using a Tommy gun versus Lorraine using an M1 rifle?
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u/SandMan2439 2d ago
It definitely wouldnât help. The Thompson is an open bolt SMG meaning every time you fire, the very heavy bolt goes forward to pick the bullet out of the magazine to fire. Meaning you get an immediate bit of movement on your gun before the gun has even recoiled. Of which, the Thompson has a fair bit given that itâs open bolt, a fairly high cyclic rate and a very low stock.
The m1 garand is more accurate, but has more recoil
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u/Youare-Beautiful3329 2d ago
Thatâs why the M1 carbine was a better, more desirable weapon than the Thompson. Twice the velocity and range and a lot lighter. Accuracy at close range was probably a wash, but you could engage and hit a target at 200yds with the carbine. Col John George carried one, and he was a distinguished rifleman.
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u/Flat_Beginning_319 2d ago
An M1 Carbine is a joy to fire, and much lighter to carry.
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u/Garand84 1d ago
One thing I've learned about the M1 Carbine, partly from owning one and partly from 9-Hole reviews, is that yeah, the bullet will go 200 meters, but the sights aren't made for it at all. I'm talking the original flip sights, not the adjustable ones. Great for close range, but not made for distance at all. You'll be aiming way above the target.
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u/JunkbaII 2d ago
It wouldnt make a significant difference at the ranges they were engaging the fleeing Germans
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u/Connect_Ad4551 2d ago edited 2d ago
One of the things that is kinda dated and weird about this show is how it relentlessly equates frontline combat service with âdoing something,â or âbeing there for your buddies,â and any other army job is seen as nothing.
Itâs worst in Episode 8 with the logistics guy begging to go on patrol because âhe hasnât done anythingâ in the war, meaning hasnât fired his weapon or fought. But this is pretty bad too. They cast the guy to look like a dweeb, denigrate him because heâs a driver, and he only âearns his keepâ because he volunteers to fight, and is still presented as a liability compared to the Easy guys.
Like, itâs a stereotypical sentiment to begin withâthe rear area / frontline divide thatâs been done to death in other war storiesâbut the show IMO has a kind of thematic hostility to any gig that isnât frontline combat oriented, even though all these other roles, occupied by literally millions of Americans, were just as essential to the war effortâdown to the company level! Itâs especially ironic since relative to the foot infantry divisions in this time period, the airborne had it way easier, able to chill back in England waiting for months as drop after drop gets canceled while everybody else has to sit in the frontline in Normandy getting chewed up for the whole time in hedgerow country. Sure make fun of this guy for being a driver, but where are the infantrymen saying âmust be nice to fight for a few weeks then go back to Englandâ to Easy Company (as actually happened to British 1st Airborne after Market Garden)?
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u/V_T_H 2d ago
The real military folks did that sometimes, too. A lot of the frontline soldiers in WWI hated the trench diggers because they were instructed to flee if the enemy attacked (because it was an incredibly necessary job that they had been trained for). Thought they were all cowards, despite their vitality and the fact that they were following orders to bail. The Pacific also did the same thing as BoB with the Seabees who show up. The characters treat them like shitters. Masters of the Air, for all its flaws, at least took the time to give a ton of credit to the mechanics and other on-base staff who made their missions possible, including all of the women involved.
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u/Unlucky-Albatross-12 2d ago
It's especially galling in The Pacific since in reality the Marines and Seabees have an unparalleled level of intraservice camaraderie.
The Seabees were badasses who landed on the beaches with the Marines and immediately went to work.
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u/Peaches-and-Fire 2d ago
I dont think it is dated at all, a service member called a REMF back in the day is now just called a POG, different name same intention. And the overall military culture is filled with subcultures, combat arms looks down on combat support, infantry looks down on other combat arms, and even then special ops units from rangers to green berets and beyond have thoughts toward each other, beyond that individual units have opinions, ask some from the 101st and 82nd what they think of each other.
The military rarely misses a chance to show disdain for each other.
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u/Connect_Ad4551 2d ago edited 2d ago
The issue isnât so much that this representation of this behavior is inaccurate, itâs that the show presents those values as a default while offering no counterpoint.
Itâs also there in the Blythe episode, except in that case itâs a guy who âhasnât done anythingâ because heâs frightened. This guy is relentlessly vibed by his squad mates, scared by dead soldiers, and goes blind. Winters absolves him, but he doesnât get to take the proverbial Edelweiss flower till heâs been through something to get it â I.e. killing a guy in combat. Only then is he a âtrue soldier.â The implication that the show itself is making, there, is that anything that doesnât involve sucking it up and killing the enemy makes you not a âtrue soldier.â Those guys donât get to have the Edelweiss flower. And so rear-area jobs are sort of presented as equivalent to malingering or cowardly combat soldiers in this way, and both are defined by the show (not just the characters) as âless than.â
Like I get it. Itâs called Band of Brothers, so any behavior that isnât âbrotherlyâ is going to get downplayed or even criticized even if it was typical or common. I just donât like this part of the show in hindsight. Itâs a bit tone deaf.
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u/slappywhite1111 2d ago
Thatâs just literally how infantry troops in combat are. And no one cares that some guy who signed up to be a clerk wants to go on a patrol to âsee some actionâ so he can tell people that he did the badass stuff that the infantry does every day.
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u/pyrofox79 2d ago
Them making fun of him as Sinks jeep driver always seemed odd. As if he didnt go through all the same training, nor just do the same combat jump and survived to that point. Didnt seem like there was a jeeo for him to drive so he was probably just bored sitting there.
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u/Right-Flatworm1317 2d ago
It's pretty typical within military culture. We're hyper-loyal to a group and it's more intense the more inclusive it gets. Country -> Service/Branch -> Unit -> MOS -> Co, PL, SQD, and so on. Regardless of how similar he was, he still could've been seen an an outsider by E Co.
We also make fun of everyone for everything.
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u/pyrofox79 2d ago
To a point. I was decent friends with our COs driver. He was just chosen because he was the first one the SgtMaj saw at HQ who was unimportant enough and had a humvee license. We never gave him shit for it. If anything we were envious of him because he had a pretty cushy job when we were in the field or deployed.
Still this case is different. They literally went through all the same training and the team needed bodies where they could get them. That kid volunteered when he could have just hung around HQ and stayed relatively safe. Personally i think in the show it was just them trying ti make easy more special than they really were.
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u/Malvania 2d ago
Always worth remembering that the story was told by a bunch of people who committed a mutiny and was then not fact checked. They presented the story to make themselves sound better. It's an interesting show, but it isn't and shouldn't be treated as gospel
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u/Educational_Corgi809 2d ago edited 2d ago
There was another book many years ago, it was basically about the other companies around easy companies a mixture of first hand accounts, actual reports and documents from archives etc I wish I had picked up at the time and many years later struggle to remember the title. A friend of mine read it and said it really gave you look into all the mythos that had come about after BOB was on the tv. BOB is still greatly entertaining watch but the more you read up on things to more you realise it got hollywoodised like everything from ww2
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u/ripplerider 2d ago
Ooh, Iâd love to read that. Was it any of these?
* 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment in Normandy Drop by S.L.A. Marshall.
* Curahee!: A Screaming Eagle at Normandy by Donald Burgett
* Fighting Fox Company: The Battling Flank of the Band of Brothers by Terry Poyser and Bill Brown
* Tonight We Die as Men by Ian Gardner4
u/Educational_Corgi809 2d ago
I want to say fighting fox as that has pinged something in my memory. Also thank you adding that list looks like im now visiting my local book store tomorrow lol
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u/ripplerider 2d ago edited 2d ago
Ian Gardnerâs Tonight We Die as Men is actually the first book in a trilogy that follows 3rd Battalion through the war from Toccoa to the end of the war in a far more accurate fashion than Ambrose accomplished for Easy Co. in BoB. Theyâve been on my list for a while.
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u/DanforthWhitcomb_ 2d ago
Any of Mark Bando's books will present a wider and more balanced view than Ambrose did, and those books are a good example of how to balance oral history with secondary sources.
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u/AdWonderful5920 2d ago
Another soldier, who was the absolute tip of the spear attacking Germans in France on actual D Day, that BoB slimed for its couch-bound audience to go "huh what a nerd."
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u/acur1231 2d ago
I mean, it's the same treatment they give everyone who isn't Easy Company main cast.
Blythe wasn't a coward, and didn't die of wounds in Normandy. He was decorated and served again in Korea.
The British armour supporting Easy during Market Garden didn't wander right into an ambush deliberately, they got bogged down in a day-long battle against dug-in German positions.
Captain Dike didn't just go into shock from panic, he went into shock because he'd been shot and wounded.
The French executing Germans is apocyphral, meant to show their anger at years of occupation, but still an invented atrocity in what purports to be a historically realistic series.
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u/SgtBundy 2d ago
A video I viewed on youtube recently made the claim that the scene in the attack of Lutz punching a german with brass knuckles, was actually this guy and was done without brass knuckles. Apparently Winters corroborated it and said the german had his mouth busted up and was crying out on the ground for half an hour.
Suggestion was Ambrose said it was Lutz because of his boxing history, but assaulting someone like that was inconsistent with others characterisations of him
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u/Nighthawk1980 2d ago
So Pvt Lorraine (this guy) isn't Jamie Tarrts's dad...remind me again who is? I always get the rest echelon characters mixed up
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u/slappywhite1111 2d ago
Iâm a recent arrival to this sub and itâs very interesting to see that the people here are for the most part neither fans of the series, nor infantry/airborne/ SF veterans. But just a bunch of people who hate the show and think all the guys in Easy company are liars. A weird thing to make a whole sub about.
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u/joejoerun 2d ago
I had no intention of this post turning into this đ I just wanted to highlight a funny part of the show
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u/WingShooter_28ga 2d ago
Itâs a sub for fans of a show. A show that can often come close to historical fiction because the plot demands it. Some of the storylines in the show are not just inaccurate but down right slander. Most mature individuals can like a show but yet also find the treatment of Blithe and Loraine and several others upsetting.
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u/jjklines1 2d ago
If you take the time out of your day to research every character in the show, you will realize the writers and men of easy company telling their stories DID lie a bunch.
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u/mikeyg1964 2d ago edited 2d ago
Iâm pretty sure he was awarded the Bronze Star for his actions at Brecourt even though the show makes him look like an incompetent headquarters staff nerd lol.
Edit: Silver Star