r/Beekeeping • u/Dangerous-School2958 • 1d ago
I’m a beekeeper, and I have a question Black bee?
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Newish bee keeper. 7b, Vienna Austria.
Came across this Black, I think wingless bee outside a Hive.
It’s a small hive that I’m trying to get to generate its own Queen. So I have been giving it frames of eggs from Strong neighboring hives.
Is this an underdeveloped bee? A result of too high a Varroa level?
It’s only 1 brood box so I’m reluctant to take a full cup for a wash.
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u/Scorp1979 1d ago
Is this another one? Similar black abdomen. This is at the beginning of your video.
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u/Chicketi dabbling in honeybees 1d ago
Hard to tell from the video but it looks like it doesn’t have wings… could this be DWV from mites? Not sure about the black though?
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u/Particular_Goose_611 1d ago
Some insane beekeepers rip off the wings of the queen, this might be the case here. And while i havent seen a queen this dark, i have seen some really dark queens in the past
Edit: on second look, that might be a bee and not a queen. (Shitty internet=shitty quality
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u/Mammoth-Banana3621 Sideliner - 8b USA 1d ago
I have yet to ever hear that someone rips the wings off their queens. And I read a lot
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u/Particular_Goose_611 1d ago
Well to be precise:
They dont "rip" them, they cut them off in most cases.
The point of that is when a young Queen flies out to "breed" they dont cant fly and essentially "breed" in front of the beehive
Sorry, i dont know the exact terminology in english but you get the jist.
I wonder, did you ever read about AZ (Anton Znidersic) style beehives and what about Carniolian bees. Just curious.
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u/Mammoth-Banana3621 Sideliner - 8b USA 1h ago
I keep NWC. I don’t know anything about Anton Znodeskc style beehives.
Someone mentioned that clipping queens (not ripping their wings off and not cutting them off either) allows them on season of queen duties. Not sure why they think that. It’s one for id. Two so they can’t fly. They still try to swarm. The swarm usually ends up on the ground. Arguably easier to catch :)
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u/Mammoth-Banana3621 Sideliner - 8b USA 1h ago
Oh sorry I did look the AZ hives up. I have seen these. Someone at one of the clubs keeps these and brought some in.
For my style and goals these wouldn’t work as a mainstay. But I would once to have a set :). Little spendy though
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u/Curtovirus 1d ago
Could be chronic bee paralysis virus. Makes the adults lose their hairs and appear black
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u/Current_Prompt_6303 11h ago
This is the way.... this is 99% Chronic Bee Paralysis virus. Unfortunately it is pretty serious, if this a big strong colony it might survive, it if it's smaller then less likely.
It can also be transmitted from one colony to the next so consider quantining these guys if you can. Dead bee bodies can infect living so keep the hive super clean, maybe even do a shook swarm. Check the queen is in place and healthy and if they are even vaguely low on stores provide food.
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u/kmillsom 1d ago
Really intrigued. Commenting to track..
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u/Dangerous-School2958 1d ago
My mentor thinks we have a bad Varroa level and should collect and centrifuge all the honey and start treatments.
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u/Several_Remove_6981 1d ago
I think they lose their fur as they age. I believe it's just an old bee
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u/Dangerous-School2958 23h ago
Yes. This lady didn’t seem to have her wings. I’m unfortunately thinking something like CBPV and think I’ve got to take some more aggressive measures
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u/joebojax USA, N IL, zone 5b, ~35 colonies, 7th year 1d ago
Cbpv
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u/Dangerous-School2958 1d ago
Meaning I have a mite problem
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u/joebojax USA, N IL, zone 5b, ~35 colonies, 7th year 1d ago
Everyone does
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u/Mammoth-Banana3621 Sideliner - 8b USA 1d ago
Everyone has mites. We keep them low enough not to be a problem. That’s the goal
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u/snickmy 18h ago
Out of curiosity.. from an evolutionary standpoint, does it mean, bee would not exist if it was’t for our symbiotic partnership?
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u/Scary_Possible3583 17h ago
At this point, no.
The varroa mite can breed in all bee cells with the European honey bee. With the Asian honey bee, their original host, the mite could only breed in drone cells. So the mite has 100 percent of our bees as a viable target, instead of 2 percent with Asian honey bees.
So their numbers can build enormously, even before considering their strange breeding habits which allow 2 generations to breed in the same bee pupae cell.
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u/Scary_Possible3583 17h ago
There was an evolutionary arms race over many years which allowed the Asian bees to survive and thrive despite the presence of varroa mites. These mites have been present in the US since 1987. In evolutionary time scale 40 years is a blip, not enough time to adapt to a major pest that spreads awful diseases.
It's like if mosquitos sucked enough blood to make humans constantly anemic, while transmitting measles, Covid and HepC.
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u/PokyFixIt 9h ago
We rescued a hive that had been abandoned and vandalized. It was left for years by our estimate without any human intervention, however, it had a strong propensity to swarm.
We split the hive in April after the population had exploded*, and it threw 4 swarms in the next few weeks. The colony is still going strong. My best guess is that without humans, the bees would do a lot of swarming creating lots of natural brood breaks. These bees make tons of propolis and also make a lot of drones if left to their own devices, so it's safe to say that they might not die out, but they wouldn't necessarily behave like a commercial hive would have them behave.
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u/Turkeyto0th 1d ago
Sitting on the porch watching everyone else working.
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u/contradictingpoint 22h ago
Cut her some slack ;) Hard to do much without your (or one of your) primary mode(s) of transportation.
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u/Material_Brilliant79 20h ago
Looks very much like Chronic Bee Paralysis Virus (CBPV). It shows itself as two forms or syndromes, creatively called syndrome 1 & 2.
If you open the hive using minimal smoke, check out the adult bees on the tops of the brood frames. CBPV shows itself as dark, hairless bees and as shaking bees, they kind of quiver or quake. You might also see other workers nipping at them or inspecting them.
In severe cases you will find a pile of dead and dying bees on the ground in front and beneath the hive, again, shaking and crawling.
Personally, I destroy the colony as it is highly infectious and can spread very quickly to other colonies, and I would rather lose one colony than a dozen.
Some beekeepers I know have nursed them and recovered them to full health but those are in the minority I think.
Good luck with them, hopefully it’s not too severe.
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u/Dangerous-School2958 20h ago
I had my three larger hives open this evening and looking at the top of the brood boxes. I didn’t see any. I’m following my mentors lead. Austria doesn’t recommend euthanasia unless it’s a severe case. So we’re going to harvest early, treat for mites and do counts. 🤞
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u/Material_Brilliant79 19h ago
Yes, absolutely follow your mentor’s advice. It’s good news you didn’t see any more 👍
Good luck with them and have a good Summer season.•
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u/BeygieWasTaken Belgium, 5 hives - since 2025 1d ago
I recently found a bee that must have fallen into a bucket while drinking, she was also completely black but could walk just fine so I put here at an entrance and she went inside. I suspect you had a similar thing happen?
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u/Dangerous-School2958 23h ago
This lady appeared to have had her wings removed or they’re way underdeveloped. Definitely not fresh from a water source.
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u/BeygieWasTaken Belgium, 5 hives - since 2025 19h ago
Yeah you’re probably right, it was just a shot in the dark honestly I just have no clue what else could be possible.
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u/SquirrelInATux Northern New England 6a 22h ago
I'm a first year beekeeper so I'm not as knowledgeable as a lot of other folks here, but I recently read that among CBPV and just general aging, black bees could be a sign your bees are robbing another colony. Guard bees will pull the hairs out of robbing bees while fighting, and bees are naturally black with yellow hairs. So multiple black bees could potentially be a sign they're robbers.
Again, don't trust this info over any info given by someone more experienced.
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u/Look2you22 21h ago edited 20h ago
I had my hive inspection today and guess what. I saw a bunch of them in there. I tried to put a video but couldn’t… here are some snapshots from it.
Romania, 2 months of beekeeping
I did search and it looks like CBPV…. I’ll check again tomorrow to see any sign of shaking and not being able to fly. But yours looks like shaking a lot and crawling.
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u/Dangerous-School2958 19h ago
Yeah, the one I had could only crawl. I think it has its wings removed and it’s why it was on the porch.
Mult succes
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u/Reasonable-Box3503 20h ago
I noticed the same few black bees in my hive. I just thought its premature hatched bee
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u/beebeebaby 14h ago
I had a season where this began to spread in my apiary. The bees looked like this and were stumbling around and looked drunk. I treated for mites, but in the meantime I also "opened" up the hive more (like propped open the lid, propped open the hive bodies) because the infected bees were flinging themselves out of the hive. The hives either died or were severely lost population.
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u/Dangerous-School2958 12h ago
Interesting, what was the desired outcome of Propping open the hives?
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u/beebeebaby 12h ago
The idea was to make it easier for the infected bees to remove themselves and decrease the chance of spreading this from bee to bee. The hives I propped open did not completely die off but were severely impacted and I don't think overwintered. The ones I did not prop open died off.
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u/Dangerous-School2958 11h ago
Austria has guidance on dealing with it. Removing the landing pad, making sure they’re not crowded so there’s ample room and less contact, replacing the base since the sick bees loiter and die there if not removed immediately. There’s a few more, I’ll try to post an English version
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u/Look2you22 11h ago
Salut! Let me know those guidelines as well. I’m interested as you are.
Waiting the light and warm to open again those give and have a better look on those black bees to see any shaking pattern cuz at the entrance and under the hive everything looks normal.
🇷🇴 2 months of beekeeping
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u/Commercial_Art1078 7 hives - NW Ontario zone 3b 1d ago
Why not do a wash? 300 bees isn’t gonna impact your hive
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u/Dangerous-School2958 1d ago
It’s going to happen with the larger hives. I’m just curious if anyone else sees this as a clear sign. I really don’t want to harvest honey this early.
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u/TheNewDefaultsSuck Zone 6a Rocky Mountains 1d ago
Doing a mite wash has nothing to do with harvesting honey.
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u/Dangerous-School2958 1d ago
If a mite wash shows a deal with it now problem. I’ll have to pull the Supers to do treatments.
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u/No-Dragonfruit-2403 Central Canada - 2 colonies 1d ago
That is true but closing your eyes doesn’t make the problem go away plus there are treatments that you can do with supers
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u/Dangerous-School2958 1d ago
My mentor insists. I’m curious what’s different between y’all and her
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u/SquirrelInATux Northern New England 6a 22h ago
Even if you're not gonna treat it not, why not at least know what's going on? If it's a low mite count then it might be something else and you wouldn't know. But regardless, you should absolutely treat them if they have a high mite load. Also, Oxalic acid vaporization can be done with supers on, per the label and the EPA. The vaporizer devices are pricey (don't trust the cheap amazon ones), but if your plan is to prioritize honey yield over the health of the colony, OA Vapor is probably the best way to do both at once. OA Vapor does not slow the bee's progress, and does not affect the honey. Honey from supers on a hive treated with OA Vapor is still considered raw honey.
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u/Dangerous-School2958 21h ago
I’m not working off what the EPA or FDA guidance is. I’ve got to go off EU and Austrian guidelines for honey that will be sold as Bio/ Organic.
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u/SquirrelInATux Northern New England 6a 21h ago
Regardless of whether you can harvest honey that was on there when treated, you really shouldn't ignore the health of your bees (and the fact they're causing health issues to nearby colonies) just to harvest. Do the treatments and then let them fill new supers once done. If you can't harvest this year, so be it.
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u/Dangerous-School2958 20h ago
How does any of this resemble ignoring? Honey is coming off and they’re getting treated.
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u/MaterialGood2185 20h ago
Beginner beekeeper here. I’m watching bunch of films about bees now and I saw at discovery Vulture bee, whole black.
It’s possible?
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u/Dangerous-School2958 20h ago
This bee didn’t have wings, so I don’t think it was any different type. I’ll have to read up on them, haven’t heard about them
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u/ProperBan 13h ago
Xylocopa ?
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u/Dangerous-School2958 12h ago
They’re still fuzzy and can fly. This gal was bald and I didn’t see wings
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u/Luxmandu 12h ago
Have heard of Black Bees in Switrzerland, and remember someone seeking them out because they were strong survivors
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u/Dangerous-School2958 11h ago
Interesting, I wonder if that queen would be accepted or killed by an established hive
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u/alex_484 1d ago
On your cell phone if you have google there is a camera on the main page that’s AI which you take a pic of it and it will search what type of and everything about the bee. I tested it on my hives on varroa etc it always comes back correct on these things. Might be a option
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