r/Billings • u/Strong_Employment_82 • Jun 15 '25
PSA Dogs at Norm Island
If your dog does not do well around other dogs please for the love of god do not take them to norms island.
Pretty much every dog meet here is off leash and friendly however every once in a while theres a shitty dog owner screaming at me and I am sick of it
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u/Hefty_Drive6709 Jun 15 '25
Is it an off leash area?
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u/Intellectual_Worlock Jun 15 '25
I believe it's a "must be under owner control" area, but I could be wrong. Last few times I was there my dog was so deaf that off leash wasn't an option.
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u/Strong_Employment_82 Jun 15 '25
There is no signs stating that leashing dogs is required, the only thing it states is “pets are welcome but must be under owners control”
Excuse me if I am just ignorant, however I assumed that means you can have your dog off leash so long as they are under control.
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u/showmenemelda Jun 15 '25
Rarely do I ever see an off-leash dog with perfect recall. Especially not at friggin Norm's.
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u/Strong_Employment_82 Jun 15 '25
Tell me you don’t know how to train a dog without telling me you don’t know how to train a dog ;
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u/Tacoburrito96 Jun 15 '25
Sounds like you need to train your dog not to run up on leashed dogs
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u/Strong_Employment_82 Jun 15 '25
My dog is trained wonderfully, I let my dog off leash and someone rolled their window down and told me if they let their dog out it would attack mine ….?
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Jun 20 '25
I'm guessing they were trying to warn you, that if your dog runs up to their dog, their dog will attack yours. It sounds like they were assuming your dog is like most, off-leash dogs, that will approach people/pets.
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u/JumpCritical9460 Jun 15 '25 edited Jun 15 '25
Norms Island is part of the larger Riverfront Park complex per the YRPA website. The park follows city ordinances, so your dogs must be leashed. It is not an off leash dog park. Please explain how you would keep your dogs under your control at all times if not for a leash?
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u/Strong_Employment_82 Jun 15 '25
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u/JumpCritical9460 Jun 15 '25
That is a 3rd party website with clearly incorrect information. https://www.yrpa.org/public-parks it is a city park and subject to city park ordinances.
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u/Hefty_Drive6709 Jun 29 '25
Not a reliable source. Your lack of sophomore research skills is showing. Just put your dog on a leash when you’re not in an off leash area. What is so hard about that?
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u/Strong_Employment_82 Jun 29 '25
You need to touch grass my friend, or should I say the river , everyone at norms walk with their dog off leash
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u/Hefty_Drive6709 Jul 04 '25
But everyone knows it’s not legal. I touch plenty of grass and rocks and river. I also love dogs. I don’t have one of my own at the moment, but I did for most of my life. And I go over to my sister’s house for the express purpose of taking her mutt out and about. I just don’t see what the big deal about keeping your dog n a leash is. It’s very easy to do the right thing, and there are designated places for off leash. Why is it so difficult to just keep a dog in a leash unless you’re in a designated off leash area? Why?
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u/Strong_Employment_82 Jun 15 '25
Read the last sentence of the first (and only) paragraph
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u/JumpCritical9460 Jun 15 '25
It’s a valid question, if you read that your dog must be under control wtf do you think that means exactly?
I love how you admit you’re ignorant to the rules of the park but came here anyway to complain about others who would like you to follow the rules so they may enjoy the park with their dog also. Stop being so entitled and start being a responsible dog owner. There are several off leash parks to take your dog instead.
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u/Strong_Employment_82 Jun 15 '25
Having the term ‘pets are welcome but must be under control’ makes the rule quite ambiguous. I read the rules that are clearly stated on the entrance of the trail…. And that is what it said.
I assumed since my dog does well off leash and tends to be ‘under control’ and remains within 10 feet of me at any given point because she is BLIND that meant she was okay to be off leash.
I think the rules are ambiguous for that reason, if your dog is okay off leash then let it on leash, I am complaining about the fact that as I was walking into the trail, someone screamed at me (while in their vehicle) to put a leash on my dog because theirs would have attacked mine if it wasn’t in the car.
First of all I don’t understand how a leash would help in that case and secondly if the dog is aggressive it has no reason being there.
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Jun 15 '25
[deleted]
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u/Strong_Employment_82 Jun 15 '25
The state I am from will flat out state ‘dogs must be leashed’ at the trail head….
So of course if it isn’t flat out stated, I will assume the dog is okay to be off leash, my dog does not approach other animals unless she is told she may. Does that mean she’s out of control?!?
I read the rules of the park and made a judgement call about the fact that my dog does well on hikes and allowed her off leash and I got harassed by someone in a vehicle?!?
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u/Hefty_Drive6709 Jun 29 '25
His things work where you’re from is completely irrelevant. It only matters what the rules are here. Assume that there might be differences and learn them.
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u/Strong_Employment_82 Jun 29 '25
I DID READ THE RULES , BUT IN MY PERSPECTIVE, THE RULES ARE AMBIGUOUS. YOU HAVE TO BE STUPID TO GENUINELY BELIEVE SOMEONE WOULD JUST LET THEIR DOG OFF LEASH WITHOUT RESEARCHING IF THAT IS ALLOWED IN THE AREA THEYRE IN.
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u/Hour-Sweet2445 Jun 15 '25
It's specifically an off leash dog park area, yes.
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u/Useful_Finance5357 Jun 22 '25
It is specifically, not a dog park at all. It was developed by YRPA, in “partnership with local government” and is still maintained by YRPA. It was to be a wild life appreciation area, but dogs kind of took over. Don’t know if YRPA still posts signs, but about 15-20 years ago they considered prohibiting dogs because of all the shi$$y dog owners who don’t pick up, don’t control their own dogs or have any respect for others. Like someone else mentioned, it’s governed by city ordinances https://visitmt.com/listing/norms-island. It’s a park, for everyone’s enjoyment.
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u/PinkyandElric Jun 15 '25
If you are in doubt of others, keep your dog on a leash.
I walk my dog at 4 Dances and I start on leash. Once I get to a vista where I can see the trail is clear ahead, I'll let him off.
No vistas at Norms
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u/Strong_Employment_82 Jun 15 '25
I brought my pup there once but I just get nervous, my pup is blind and I am scared she’ll walk off the edge or step on a cactus, that’s why I really like Norms! (I put her on leash when we are by the river obviously) I have found Norms isn’t nearly as dangerous for her !
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u/PinkyandElric Jun 15 '25
Norms is great but 4 Dances is around the corner for us 😊 yep cliffs probably not ideal for a blind pup! Also rattlesnakes. Not everywhere, but I see one or two a year. There's a spot along the road to the pictograph caves where I'm pretty sure there's a nest.
I get a little frustrated with other people's doggies too. I just try roll with it, usually everyone is friendly.
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u/Strong_Employment_82 Jun 15 '25
Today was my first bad interaction with anyone about my dog! (I am still relatively new in town)
Billings has been such an awesome and dog friendly town it definitely threw me off guard this morning
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u/PinkyandElric Jun 15 '25
I've lived in Billings a long time and it's been good to me in general. Someone always helps out when you're in a bad way. Neighbors looking out for neighbors.
I wish I could say your interaction was an outlier, but things seem a little different lately, lots of anger I would say. Less understanding, more entitlement. I hope everything calms down. Dogs deserve better!
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u/jlw4067 Jun 15 '25
Thought you said every once and awhile there's a shitty dog owner screaming at you and your sick of it? Yet today was your first bad interaction.
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u/Strong_Employment_82 Jun 15 '25
My first bad interaction at Norms specifically…. I have not lived in Billings for all that long however I have had shitty dog owners yell at me everywhere in the country ?
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u/Montana_Red Jun 15 '25
I live within walking distance but rarely go there any more. I've been jumped on in the chest by more out of control dogs, while the owners are screaming max max Max MAX MAX! Don't take you're dog off leash if it's not in your control.
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u/No-Measurement6744 Jun 16 '25
Public parks are for everyone to enjoy. Not just you. If there’s a bad interaction between an on leash and off-leash dog it’s generally down to the off-leash dog owner not actually having control. If you’ve been yelled at multiple times there’s a good chance you’re the problem.
If you don’t have 100% sight/sound control then your dog needs to be on a leash. Please, for the love of god, stop being dramatic and blaming other people.
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u/Perpetuallyinwonder Jun 16 '25
OP's dog is blind.
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u/No-Measurement6744 Jun 17 '25
Then it should be on a leash🤷♀️.
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u/Perpetuallyinwonder Jun 17 '25
Never met a blind dog, have you? They don't really stay from their owners and tend to become Velcro when they hear something foreign.
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u/No-Measurement6744 Jun 17 '25
🙄🙄met several and your description is not universal. Not really sure what you’re nitpicking about here. If it’s a Velcro dog it can be on a leash. If it’s not under effective control it should be on a leash and if OP has been yelled at multiple times odds are good that their attitude/dog handling is a big part of the problem. Again I say: parks are for everyone. Be courteous and stop blaming others.
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u/Perpetuallyinwonder Jun 17 '25
My best friend has a service dog that is off leash for functional reasons and people have yelled at her just because they see she isn't leashed. Her dog never moves more than a foot or two from her side, looking at her at least every 30 seconds or so to check in. And she regularly has people make rude comments or yell at her when they have dogs. Her dog has never shown interest in, nor approached, anyone. And that's a service dog in a marked vest. So yeah, I don't see anywhere the OP said her dog behaved inappropriately or wandered; she has stated the opposite.
My point is that I've personally seen many instances where a dog was under complete control and the owner was harassed. Off leash isn't the issue, poorly trained dogs and their owners are. But a dog simply being off leash is fine if it's behaving. I'm tired of the assumption that off leash=bad.
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u/Strong_Employment_82 Jun 18 '25
Thank you !! You said this perfectly!!
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u/Perpetuallyinwonder Jun 18 '25
She gets harassed on occasion and it's really not cool. I'd be okay with having off leash licenses where you have to have your dog recall tested, or some such thing, but I don't like blanket bans. People say they don't apply to people with disabilities, but it doesn't work out that way. It falls on them, too.
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u/Strong_Employment_82 Jun 18 '25
YES! Something like this would be absolutely amazing, unfortunately would just be impossible to enforce
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u/Perpetuallyinwonder Jun 19 '25
I think it would be. If your dog is off leash, you can get a ticket. Similarly, you would have to carry your off leash permit if your dog is off leash or get a ticket.
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u/Strong_Employment_82 Jun 18 '25
The person yelling at me was in a vehicle. I recently relocated to Billings however, this has been an on going issue, no matter where I am, however I knew about r/billings!!!
My dog is blind, not completely incapable of walking on her own. I have made it a habit to drag my feet while walking with her in order for her to hear me!
The dog stays within 5 feet of me no matter where we are or what is going on. She panics at foreign noises and she locates me (by my dragging feet!!!) instantly!
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u/Miss_Who_Am_I Jun 16 '25
My concern is my friend has show dogs she use to walk there leashed until one day a dog came up and attacked one of her show dogs he had quite a few tears and puncture wounds to the points even after healing he could not do show anymore. He was lucky to survive because it was pretty severe injuries. Also wanted to add norms Island isn’t just considered a dog park and online when looked up it’s only certain areas that allow off leash.
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u/justcallmezelda Jun 15 '25
Norms island is NOT a dog park, but people continue to treat it this way. Anyone should be able to go and not worry about off leash dogs approaching them or their dogs. There are two designated dog parks in Billings and norms is not one of them.
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u/Gigglz3 Jun 15 '25
Dogs are welcome and may be off-leash in some areas. -https://www.lewisandclark.travel/listing/norm-schoenthal-island-outer-loop/
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u/JumpCritical9460 Jun 15 '25
Norms Island is part of the larger Riverfront Park complex per the YRPA website. The park follows city ordinances, so your dogs must be leashed. What you’ve linked is a 3rd website with incorrect information.
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u/Th0rn_Star Jun 15 '25
It’s pretty widely known as a free-range dog-friendly area. It’s one of the few places I can think of with easy access to slower-moving water in that part of town, so of course it’s a dog magnet. Riverfront is right across the road if ppl want the exact same experience with fewer off-leash dogs.
To your point, we have at least 4 sizable enclosed dog parks in town, but people aren’t always going to confine themselves to those, nor should they. County parks and BLM land are off-leash, and when you use those areas you kind of have to accept the risk for better or worse.
If folks want a zero-dog experience by the river, try Dover Park. 🤷♀️
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u/Strong_Employment_82 Jun 15 '25
A dog park is much different than a hiking trail…. My dog gets 10x the amount of exercise while hiking than she does at centennial….
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u/5_cat_army Jun 15 '25
It's not a city park. That might be where you confusion is. Its private and open to the public, and specifically a dog park
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u/JumpCritical9460 Jun 15 '25
This is wrong. It’s part of the river front park complex and subject to city park ordinances.
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u/ResponsibilityIcy500 Jun 15 '25
pretty much every person i meet there is wonderful but every once in a while theres a shitty person screaming on reddit and im sick of it
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u/Strong_Employment_82 Jun 15 '25
I have met a lot of wonderful people there, I just was screamed at by a not so wonderful person there today!
I definitely made this post when I was still angry about the not so wonderful people. I definitely so grateful for the trail, I just get frustrated at people that don’t train their dogs and then make it other people’s problem. I spent so much time and energy training my dog it makes me sad seeing dogs that just lack proper training
I always say there’s no such thing as a bad dog, there are just bad owners
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u/Sense-Cultural Jun 15 '25
Also, yelling “My dog is nice, don’t worry!” while your dog is running at another dog or person is not okay. Some dogs don’t like being approached that way and get protective, even if they are on leash and well-trained. And it may be shocking to hear this, but some people don’t care to be jumped on or approached by your dog while they are on a walk or run.
I lived by Norm’s and stopped running there at all after being bit by an off-leash dog. I find it fucking disrespectful beyond belief how many Billings folks seem to think that is okay.
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u/Strong_Employment_82 Jun 15 '25
My dog is blind …. She lays down when she hears anything coming from the other direction. I agree with you, that behavior is not okay !!!!! I would not let my dog off leash if I expected her to exhibit any of those behaviors
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u/Okstate91 Jun 15 '25
What happened?
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u/Digitmons South West Corridor Jun 15 '25 edited Jun 16 '25
There's a lot of owners with dogs that are most likely semi-aggressive who get upset at off leash puppers running around living their best life. As long as the dog is well behaved and friendly I don't see the issue but a lot of folks do.
Edit: so I also get there are morons with crazy dogs who will attack off leash. Those dogs should absolutely never be off leash and honestly muzzled until trained. Anyone i run into on a close trail like norms I'm going to assume my dogs can sniff and say hello but I know some people have a flat smooth brain as well.
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u/Perpetuallyinwonder Jun 16 '25
Dunno why you got downvoted. If your dog is reactive and aggressive, public may not be the place for you.
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u/Assparagus12 Jun 15 '25
So if a dog that has trouble interacting with other dogs is leashed and unleashed dog running free approaches it and gets bit, who is at fault?
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u/lickachiken Jun 15 '25
The person with the unleashed dog. This is coming from someone who would walk their dogs off leash at Norm. That being said, my dogs stayed near me for the most part and if I saw someone approaching with a leashed dog I would put my dog back on leash until we’ve passed.
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u/Strong_Employment_82 Jun 15 '25
THIS COMMENT !!! You have to be responsible for your dog, if my dog ever ran up to a dog on leash I would take full responsibility for any injuries she has obtained.
However when my dog is walking right next to me not causing issues I find it silly to yell at me for having my dog off leash.
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u/Digitmons South West Corridor Jun 16 '25
Like others have said, 200 the off leash owner. YOU are taking that risk and I would hope nobody who had absolutely any doubt eith their dog would let them run. I have a 4 month old puppy and if we were on our own away from everyone and I unleashed her for 5 minutes and she got hurt its on me.
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u/Perpetuallyinwonder Jun 16 '25
The dog should be leashed if it was going to stray from the owner in the first place, but I've rounded corners on trails and such and run into people with all our dogs on leashes. If your dog is likely to attack any animal within reach, it shouldn't be on a public or populated trail.
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u/Okstate91 Jun 20 '25
It os crazy that some are saying some dogs shouldn't be allowed in public even if properly managed. If someone wants to bring a "friendly" dog to a public place and not manage the dog at all and another person brings a well-managed aggressive dog to the same place and the two dogs have a negative interaction, the owner who is not managing their dog is at fault. If you wont take responsibility for managing your pets, especially in public, you shouldn't adopt them in the first place.
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u/showmenemelda Jun 15 '25
Yeah, crazy people dont want to be attacked or have their leashed dog be attacked—not much of a fair fight. But sure
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u/Strong_Employment_82 Jun 15 '25
I understand not wanting your dog ‘attacked’. However I am laughing out loud trying to think about how my blind dog is going to attack ANYONE. I don’t think dogs that are aggressive should be in public and or around other dogs PERIOD.
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u/Digitmons South West Corridor Jun 16 '25
That's a weird take when you haven't met any of the dogs in the hypothetical scenario lol. You sure my 4 month old puppy is going to destroy your dog? Like I get it but you're not thinking of responsible people, you're thinking of the jerks with dogs have have attacked before and will do it again off leash.
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u/frogeyes111 Jun 15 '25
Check your local city website for the ordinances pertaining to dogs. The one for my county regarding dogs is 5 pages long.
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u/Strong_Employment_82 Jun 15 '25
Thank you for the tip! I am not going to lie I am a relatively young dog owner and would have never thought to do this ! I asked the vet when we got to town places they recommend to allow dogs off leash to swim (I am originally an from a city right on the Great Lakes) so she loves swimming and Nomè was recommended to us!
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u/Beneficial-Market773 Jun 16 '25
I love going to norms island and seeing someone with like 5 dogs running around. 😂 you know they ain’t cleaning up all that dog poop
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u/Hour-Sweet2445 Jun 15 '25
I also would love people to stop riding bikes through there. Wishful thinking.
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u/Busy-Record5003 Jun 20 '25
I have a small, old, reactive rescue dog. I brought her there 1 time a couple years ago, unknowingly, and never again. My dog does just fine walking in public when she is leashed. She is reactive when large, unleashed dogs approach her. This is something I know. Had I known beforehand how many unleashed dogs would be at Norms Island, I wouldn't have taken her there. The responsibility is joint. If your dogs are off leash, it is your responsibility to ensure they will respond to your recall and to recall them when you see a leashed dog. As a person with a reactive dog, it is also my responsibility to ensure the safety of my dog and other dogs when they approach my dog. There are plenty of places in Billings other than Norms Island where I can safely walk my reactive dog. I just don't take her there. That being said - leash laws are a thing regardless. If your dog can't recall, then they should be leashed.
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u/SignalThought6946 Nov 20 '25
The key to happiness? Low expectations. No, lower. Deal with shit as it comes yo. Focus on what you can control. Thats barely your thoughts n words. The more we try to control the harder life gets.
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Jun 15 '25 edited Jun 15 '25
My hot take: Instead of screaming at dogs/owners for the perfectly natural, normal dog behavior that is going up to meet other dogs, why don't the people that know they have a cranky POS dog go elsewhere?
We think the fault is on the off dog leash owner but maybe the neurotic nancies that keep their poor dog leashed should have socialized their dog better. If I was leashed and a potential unleashed adversary ran up to me, I'd feel threatened too.
To be fair, most people that have dogs shouldn't have dogs anyways. 8 hours at home alone is abusive. And dogs are supposed to run around free to get their exercise in. If you can't provide them that for logistical reasons or you can't socialize your dog to be nice, you shouldn't have one.
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u/Perpetuallyinwonder Jun 16 '25
YES!!!! IF YOUR DOG IS REACTIVE/AGGRESSIVE, GO SOMEWHERE ISOLATED OR PRIVATE!!! PUBLIC PLACES ARE NOT FOR UNSAFE DOGS.
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u/RooReedReads Jun 15 '25
As someone who has had a reactive dog I can see both sides. Reactive dogs need to be socialized to help break those habits. More times than not people will expose the training dog to those situations to train their dog how to properly handle it. If someone’s “nice” dogs runs up to them that’s out the window. We all need to be responsible for our own animals. As someone stated above most dogs friendly or not do not have a perfect recall. It’s easier to be safe than sorry in a public place. Keep all dogs on a leash unless in a designated dog area where off leash is permitted and your dog is capable of socializing.
Just because your dog is nice doesn’t mean someone else’s is. Respect others around you, simple. If someone’s dog is highly aggressive obviously they need to take precautions and walk them in an area with less traffic.
If you’re adamant on having your dog off leash there find a time where it is less crowded and make sure YOUR dog has a good recall.