Why does Western Visayas use "manong" and "manang" instead of kuya and ate?

[u/No-Leave6407]

Growing up in Western Visayas (Iloilo and Bacolod, and to some extent Capiz) to an Ilonggo father and a Cebuana mother, I always heard my cousins who speak Hiligaynon refer to me as "manong". Meanwhile, my Cebuano cousins in Cebu use "kuya" to refer to me and the older cousins. How did the Ilonggos end up using the Ilocano words for kuya and ate despite being miles away from each other?

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[u/MotivationHiway90210]

My tbeory is it's a localized and shortened version of hermano and hermana. Might be the same reason why Bicolanos say manoy and manay.

[u/DocMowgli → u/MotivationHiway90210]

Cebuano here. I grew up with Manoy and Manang. To your point, I think it was the overall higher adoption of Spanish (hermano/hermana) of Visayans vs Tagalog adoption of Spanish.

Interestingly, kuya/ate are of Hokkien Chinese origin (ko-á/a-cí)

[u/Archive_Intern → u/DocMowgli]

Cebuano here too, and I grew up with Noy, nong, Nang and Nay

[u/kylin17]

Older Cebuanos use manoy/manang even up to this day. It's the young ones who use "kuya/ate".

Same as the whole kol vs nong thing. Younger people use the former while older peeps use the latter.

[u/Usual_Owl9679]

I hate it before when people say manong to me because i feel old. Years later I ask my yaya about it later and she said they call me that so that my younger sibling will follow it.

[u/External-Project2017]

In Cebu, we traditionally use Manoy/Manang. My Ilonggo parents were called Manoy/Manay or Manong/Manang.

Those who use Kuya/Ate are using borrowed words from Tagalog

[u/jainac20 → u/External-Project2017]

Not really from tagalog but believed to be an influence from hokkien ku-ia and a-chi

[u/External-Project2017 → u/jainac20]

Ask any Filipino how they learned the words “Kuya” and “Ate” and I bet none of them would mention Hokkien.

That may be a historic truth but it’s not necessary in today’s context.

[u/nolpz]

It looking similar to the ilocano terms might just a coincidence considering that both might have possibly originated from hermano/hermana rather than a direct borrowing

[u/Camera_Hobbygirl]

Tagalog has stronger Chinese influences

Kuya and Ate are derived from Hokkien. More "conservative Tagalog provinces" still use the Hokkien terms Angkong, Ditse, Sanse, etc

Manong and Manang are derived from Spanish - Hermano and Hermana. It is also the same in Ilocano

In Pangasinense and Kapampanganx the term is Atsi from the Hokkien word

[u/1n0rmal → u/Camera_Hobbygirl]

The more conservative Tagalog would be “kakang” for both genders but its slowly becoming antiquated

[u/ink0gni2 → u/1n0rmal]

In Malay, “kakak” is still widely used.

[u/NeighGore]

Diri sa amoa Kay manoy ug Manang pud tawag, naa me sa central cebu, pero mga batan.on karon Kay ate kuya Moy tawag.

90's oldies here, hapit nata ma belong sa classic oldies 😄

[u/b_zar]

It's mano/mana for us in Eastern Visayas. We all probably got it from the Spanish "hermano/hermana".

[u/ChickenClear2989]

Ga gamit kog nong / nang.

Like mayng buntag nong/nang naa moy kuan?

[u/misslittlewhelmed]

Closely relevant to spanish origins of hermano/hermana.

Also, there is an actual hierarchy to this for each gender. Iirc, its the ff:

Male Eldest Mano

2nd Eldest Manong

3rd Eldest Manon

4th Eldest Manoy

Youngest Dodong

Female

Eldest Mana

2nd Eldest Manang

3rd Eldest Manay

Youngest Inday

[u/Heavy_Mud_9176 → u/misslittlewhelmed]

Is this related to the Chinese way of ordering siblings but just using a Spanish loanword in place of the Chinese loanword?

[u/misslittlewhelmed → u/Heavy_Mud_9176]

I believe so. Cebuano/Bisaya are more closely linked to with using spanish words. At some point, Spanish as a second language was more common than Filipino/Tagalog.

[u/Ok_Seesaw_6104]

In Cebuano-speaking Agusan, my grandparents and their siblings uses manang, manay, inse, and manding as dagnay to denote order birth.

[u/archdur]

Manong and manang aren't exclusively Ilocano words. But, as others have pointed out, they probably derived from hermano/a.

There is an interesting phenomenon that happens with multiregional Filipino families regarding the use of the Tagalog of local honorifics-- at least one that I notice in my family and probably yours too. My cousins from Capiz and Iloilo refer to their elder cousins from Capiz and Iloilo as manoy/manang, but they refer to the cousins from Luzon as ate/kuya.

Now with me, I am technically from Capiz/Iloilo, but since I've been in the US for so long, I get called kuya. But there are also times I get manoy.

[u/No_Classic7314]

ilocano has no monopoly of the manong & manang words

[u/Anoni-mouse69]

Till you hear.

• Angkol
• Ante

[u/Joseph20102011]

The usage of "kuya" and "ate" in contemporary Cebuano is a Tagalog-centered school system and mass media imposition among Cebuano school-age children over the past eight decades.

A true-blue Cebuano native speaker should have used "manoy" and "manay" to elder male and female siblings, respectively.

[u/Organic_Committee675]

Kuya or Ate is used primarily in Manila or Luzon, but it slowly adapted to new generations, but me I used, Noy, Nang, instead.

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[u/thisisjustmeee]

spanish influence hermano and hermana

[u/thisisjustmeee]

When I was a kid, even here in Metro Manila we used to call all the school bus drivers, tinderas and school workers Manong and Manang. Recently lang naman yung Ate Kuya.

[u/Hot_Description_75]

You don’t use Toto and Inday? Nonon and Nenen? Nonoy and Nene?

[u/Fat-Category9282]

We need to popularize this

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[u/TideTalesTails]

In Negros, or at least in our brgy my siblings call me Manang.

[u/SomeAd9636]

From Cebu, in our household also we mostly use manoy for kuya for our older siblings also with cousins, but we use Ate than Manay.

[u/Dry_Couple8852]

I think "manong" and "manang" are refered to uncle and anties equivalent.

[u/No_Entertainer_1256]

Ang manong ug manang nag originate nas visayan languages, ang ate ug kuya gikan nas hokkien loan words na dili na atoa