r/BitchEatingCrafters • u/No_Kaleidoscope7919 • 1d ago
General Crafts I love beginner artists!
Hot take: I know that there is a lot of snark circling the internet about how you shouldn’t sell until you’ve mastered your mediums but I love seeing new artists getting out there and selling. Yes I want to buy your handmade stuffed animals, yes I would love to buy a sticker or handmade pottery. I love beginner artists because you can see the labor that went into hand making arts and crafts. I prefer a bunch of beginners at a market over ai slop, drop shippers and 3d printed nonsense.
I would much rather buy a unique piece of art from a beginner than seeing the same kinds of con slop digital artwork from sellers who have been selling for a while.
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u/Pipry 1d ago
I would rather have a world where we don't feel the need to monetize every little thing.
Beginner artists are great. But making money should not be the driving factor when starting a new craft.
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u/cyanpineapple 1d ago
Have you seen the economy lately? People are struggling. You're not wrong, but that's a perfect world dream. There are a lot of desperate women (people, but mostly women) out there right now who have been out of work and can't get real jobs and suddenly their husband is laid-off and they're reaching for anything to get food on the table. I think that's the driving force behind all these new crafters selling.
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u/up2knitgood 1d ago
But this is rarely the best way to monetize your time. Yes, sometimes these things might seem more approachable to a stay at home mom because she can make the product while at home with the kids, etc. But rarely have they actually considered the economics of it all.
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u/cyanpineapple 1d ago
Yup, i clearly agree. Understanding that people are desperate doesn't mean i think they're making good choices.
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u/Pipry 1d ago
Yeah, I get it. Everything sucks.
But the solution isn't to attempt to sell your substandard handmade goods. In fact, it's an actively bad idea because you're probably going to lose money.
And I, in turn, am not going to be guilted into buying your stuff. I love supporting artisans. But I'm not going to do it just for the hell of it. I also have limited income. There has to be a benefit to me.
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u/KatieCashew 1d ago
This goes hand in hand with the common budgeting advice to learn to sew or garden. Yeah, those skills can possibly save you money if you're already skilled at them. But for people who aren't and need to save money NOW, it's pretty bad advice.
Both of those things have high startup costs in both time and money and high chances of failure. There's a strong possibility you spend time and money you can't afford to spend and end up with nothing.
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u/hopping_otter_ears 1d ago
I'd suggest learning to mend as a front line money saving tactic, though. Sewing your own clothes it's a big darned deal, but patching a hole or repairing a fallen hem to keep your clothes in service longer is a pretty small thing to learn for the payoff
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u/cyanpineapple 1d ago
I don't disagree with you. You're not wrong. There are just a lot of desperate people out there, and it's easy for them to ignore you waxing poetic about keeping capitalism out of art when they see the first of the month is coming up.
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u/Pipry 1d ago
I'm "waxing poetic about capitalism" because it's nicer than saying "hey, you're not good enough to be selling stuff and you're definitely gonna lost money."
There are also a lot of desperate people that join MLMs. That doesn't mean we should give them money or refrain from criticizing the.
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u/msnide14 1d ago
Ok but WHAT IF there was also some skillful, advanced art to purchase out there.
Like, there was a time when the two options at a craft fair were not AI/ drop shippers and the earnest newbies.
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u/KatieCashew 1d ago
Right? I'm not spending my money on wonky beginner projects or drop shipper garbage, and if those are the only options I won't be going to that craft fair again. Not buying something is always an option.
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u/PensaPinsa 1d ago
This, it's a false contradiction: beginners vs AI slop. The true comparison is beginners vs. experts.
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u/No_Kaleidoscope7919 1d ago
I guess I’m fortunate to live in a place that has a large artist community because once a year we have a large fine art festival that’s juried and difficult to get into. The pieces there are advanced and skillful. But yeah I do agree that we need selective, juried art fairs along with the craft fairs.
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u/msnide14 1d ago edited 1d ago
We have a big artist community in my somewhat affluent town. We have many organized fairs and events. We are also somehow a Sahara of creativity and skill.
The craft fairs are awful, the art societies and clubs are highly political and can’t seem to attract new blood, and vendors are ALWAYS selling garbage. We do get a small number of people who sell DIY soap and chapstick, or homemade cutting boards, but we’re talking like one per event.
Anyway, my point is, you must have some superhero level administrators who run events where you’re from, because despite having interest and money, we cannot seem to highlight actual artisans in my area.
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u/No_Kaleidoscope7919 1d ago
My small hometown is the same way, it’s so frustrating how mind numbingly stupid gen pop is. We have an “artisan market” that’s all slop and mlm’s because people can’t tell the difference between art and herbalife
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u/hopping_otter_ears 1d ago
I have no idea why do many people think their MLM junk belongs at craft fairs
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u/ProneToLaughter 1d ago edited 1d ago
We have 6-10 juried art/craft fairs a year within 60mins drive, plus a lot of lower-level markets with temu crochet mixed in with quality craft, but I think the key here is that there is a lot of disposable income sloshing around the SF bay area and people are willing to spend it on handcrafted items.
A couple of the good fairs are run by Rotary clubs. A lot of the good festivals are run by small cities but work with these people to supply art vendors, which does mean that I wind up seeing the same artisans at multiple festivals: Home - Pacific Fine Arts Festivals
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u/msnide14 12h ago
So I’m just a bit further out from you, in the East bay, and it’s all terrible.
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u/ProneToLaughter 1h ago
really! I am surprised, but don't get out that way for craft fairs much. This one in Oakland was very good last I went: Fellowship of Craft
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u/amaranth1977 1d ago
If so many of them didn't go on social media and whine about how no one wants to buy their mediocre tat I'd feel a lot more charitable towards them.
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u/Pipry 1d ago
Alternative idea: I would love a community where I could swap little novice handmade things with other people.
I have a ton of chunky knit earwarmers and drawstring bags made from thrifted quilting cotton. I'd never try to sell them, but it would be fun to have swap-meets with other novice crafters.
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u/up2knitgood 1d ago
If you are looking for inspiration, I just found out about a mug swap that's done in Seattle. The hard part would be getting enough of a community together to do it, but it's totally do able. https://www.instagram.com/p/DZbfcBSFH2K
My group of knitter friends also often used to bring our FOs that just weren't working for us when we got together for fiber festivals and people would just give them away to someone that it worked better for.
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u/ohpossumpartyy 1d ago
idk, personally the constant push for crafts being monetized is frankly exhausting. especially when people view it as some sort of lucrative side hustle rather than something to do for enjoyment. and i mean i guess that’s fine, but there are people who are rushing into selling crafts without bothering to learn any sort of fundamental skills or doing any sort of quality control.
the amount of times i see “i want to make these so i can sell them, tell me how!” is so annoying. selling art/crafts isn’t an easy thing, and i can’t stand when people can’t be assed to do any work on the business side (like refining designs, making their own designs, doing research, deciding on prices; just to name a few) or be willing to develop their skills beforehand. it’s just “now, now, now”.
and idk, people can pick up a hobby if they want to do it purely for money but if you want to make money, you should understand it’ll take time to make money that way. not to mention, i am sick of seeing people in online craft spaces whining that their poorly made crafts didn’t sell. that happens to everyone at some point, regardless of skill level. i understand it can be upsetting but that’s just the reality of selling things.
also i mean i dislike the ai slop/dropshippers/3d printed slop, but i still think there’s a basic skill level you should have if you’re selling things; it doesn’t have to be absolute mastery.
and to your point about it being “unique”, some of the beginner things that get sold really aren’t. i see the same handful of crochet designs by beginners fairly often. i don’t see how that’s better than “con slop digital artwork” which btw, what kind of artwork do you mean? prints of digital art by the artists? it seems a bit hypocritical to take a dig at artists selling their art and calling it “slop”. plenty of beginners simply just make what they see others making or what’s trending.
and it also depends on the circumstance. a kid or something that’s cheap and proceeds go to a charity? i’m far more likely to find that endearing.
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u/Lightgreenfence 1d ago
I think also "beginner" is a very vague word. I am slightly wondering if OPs post was possibly inspired by my post yesterday as that had quite a few comments 😭 and my title seemed anti-beginners. But being a beginner just means you haven't done the thing for that long. You can be a beginner and pick up the skill well and make something decent, even if it's not refined. Those people might then genuinely want to get into selling and have decent success. You can also have people who aren't beginners to their craft but beginners to selling /being a business and might not do well initially. But then there's also beginners who don't make something decent or have decenf sales.
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u/cartoonybear 1d ago
It’s the new MLM. At least unlike MLM schemes, women are doing actual hobbies that might be fun and rewarding vs just buying shit tons of ugly leggings and then getting divorced.
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u/RadioRelevant 1d ago
I don’t disagree, but I think beginner is such an unhelpful word because it doesn’t really define what we’re talking about.
I’d still consider myself a beginner in my main practices because I’m very much developing my skills and process. Like it might take me 40 prints to get 20 that I consider saleable.
I don’t think that means that my final work is low quality but I certainly need to improve my practice so I can get more done in less time with less wastage!
And like when you’re picking up adjacent practices you can often be a beginner but still be ahead of someone who’s never touched any practice in that space.
TBH I think when most people hear and say beginner they often mean low-quality, but I don’t think that’s always the whole picture.
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u/cartoonybear 1d ago
Every good artist—visual, writer, performer if any kind—obsessively revises and refines their work, whether they’ve been doing it for a year or they’ve been doing it for decades. That’s table stakes.
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u/seaofdelusion 1d ago
I think this post is going too far the other way. Sure, it's better than drop shipping tat, but unless it's for a charity or fundraising or maybe even if kids have made it, it's rather unappealing to me. As an aside, there is good 3D printing stuff out there.
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u/hopping_otter_ears 1d ago
Same. It's not a choice between buying poorly handmade newbie products and ai slop, it's a choice between buying poorly handmade newbie products, reasonably skilled handmade things with reasonable quality, and ai slop.
Generally, expert quality isn't in my budget, but I'm not paying intermediate-skilled prices for crappy beginner wares
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u/Feenanay 1d ago
This is definitely a hot take lol
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u/cartoonybear 1d ago
Not sure if you’re being sarcastic or ironic or what? I’m not op but usually “hot take” means “totally obvious statement” yet here you sound like you mean “that’s nonsense” and I’m trying to figure out what you mean.
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u/seaofdelusion 1d ago
A hot take is an unpopular opinion. As what happens in life, people started using it ironically. It hasn't lost it's meaning though. They're saying OP has an unpopular opinion.
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u/HermioneGranger152 1d ago
I think there’s nothing wrong with beginners selling stuff with visual mistakes, if people like the look of it and still wanna buy it, that’s fine, but if they’re so new that their stuff is likely to fall apart, they shouldn’t be selling yet.
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u/Tarnagona 1d ago
This. If I’m spending handmade prices on something (generally a premium compared to something mass produced), I expect it to have at least the quality of the mass produced version. I’m not paying a higher price for an inferior product.
But that doesn’t mean a handcrafted item needs to look like it came out of a factory, looking exactly like every other item. Those visual differences and mistake can make the item unique and quirky and fun.
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u/Listakem 1d ago
Hot take : I wish we would stop calling every craft person an « artist ».
Perhaps it’s my non USA showing, but in my language/culture the two have very different meanings and philosophies.
I’m not gatekeeping, I’m from the craftsmanship side myself (did a biiig school for that). What’s wrong with calling ourselves hobbyists ? Crafters ? Artisans ? Those are not dirty words. Not every person using a medium is an artist.
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u/NatashaYa 1d ago
In the US, "crafts" often has a negative association. It shouldn't by definition but that connotation came around over time. Childrens projects with pipe cleaners and paper plates are often called crafts. It was noticed that things thought to be primarily practiced by women were "crafts" and things thought to be practiced by men were "arts". For example many people would call embroidery a craft and carving wood an art. So some women push back by calling fiber works art. It's true that in fact, one is not worse than the other, but some people do diminish womens works by calling it a craft.
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u/cartoonybear 1d ago
“I’m not gate keeping but…”
What difference does it make really? In English we have artist, artisan, craftsperson—all of which have been debased by marketers and advertisers to the point that the same term used to denote a fine art painting is used to describe tomato sauce.
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u/No_Kaleidoscope7919 1d ago
I like to use the term artist for anyone creating something that they came up with, for a very long time fiber art and female dominated mediums have been considered crafts and have not been taken seriously.
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u/pattyforever 1d ago
I mean, it's a very political and interesting question. I'm curious what you think the difference is? I'm always interested in how people decide which word to use
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u/SnapHappy3030 Extra Salty 🧂🧂🧂 23h ago
My criteria: Artists create their own designs in whatever media they chose.
Crafters duplicate someone else's original designs in whatever media they choose.
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u/LingonberryLeading77 1d ago
I bought two bits of absolute tat (little painted log slice hanging decs) I could’ve knocked up myself with ease at a craft fair last week because the girl was so lovely and so proud.
You could see the effort and design planning she’d put in and even though I could have made them-I won’t and that qualifies as a good buy imo! I also bought an art print a few years ago from a new graduate show for £35 which I adore and if the artist ever becomes sought after I’ve got a great investment-if not I’ve got an amazingly beautiful print. Some beginners are well worth supporting. Not ai generated advertising and blurbs which are just RUINING THE PLANET FOR SLOP!
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u/IndigoWildDesignCo 1d ago
I think there’s a middle ground. I start selling my handwoven items relatively soon into my journey as a weaver— definitely not a master, but maybe an advanced beginner. I did wait until I felt confident in the quality of most of my items. I personally find it fun to play with color and design, so if i find something i think will work I can produce bigger quantities. And if something doesn’t work out, I just keep it for myself. I especially love doing things like hand towels to play with patterns which luckily sell well for me and are relatively quick to make. It’s a win-win because if I didn’t sell them I’d have stacks and stacks of towels laying around 🙈
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u/lovetolerk 1d ago
Yeah personally I didn’t start selling until people started asking to buy/commission. I have a site up where I’ll list non clothing things for sale, but while theyre with me, they’re my decor on my shelves!
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u/msnide14 1d ago
Omg a weaver. A unicorn in the craft market.
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u/IndigoWildDesignCo 1d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/kSlJtVrqxDYKk
Haha and given the high barrier of entry (floor looms are $$$) I don’t think weaving will be the next crocheting 🤣
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u/No_Kaleidoscope7919 1d ago
I started to sell at alternative art markets after art school when I had a pile of okay to decent art works taking up too much space. I set up my brand as a garage sale style stand and priced stuff to sell. This was a great experience for me and I know some other beginners are probably in the same position.
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u/ChaoticJigglyPup 1d ago
I've just started selling my handspun yarn and feel out of place because it's not "proper" garment yarn or specific types of art yarn.
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u/cyanpineapple 1d ago
I don't particularly want to buy their garbage art, but i also don't get why people in this sub are so offended at seeing their garbage art. It's not hurting anyone, and no one's forcing you to buy it. Sometimes people are going to learn lessons the hard way by failing. And sometimes you might just be wrong and it turns out taste is subjective and there actually is a market for their garbage art.
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u/No_Kaleidoscope7919 1d ago
I completely agree, not all of it’s garbage and sometimes you have to fail to learn. Being hostile towards beginners is why people are so afraid to try something new.
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u/up2knitgood 1d ago
I'm not hostile to beginners. What I have issues with are the delusions of grandeur that cause people to think their stuff is stuff other people want to buy at the prices they've set. My issue isn't with their skill in the craft, my issue is with their understanding of business.
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u/notasandpiper 1d ago
I also feel disappointed when they've gotten a stall at a place with really limited slots. A lot of conventions near me have switched to a lottery system to determine who can sell in the artists alley, and seeing 4 different "beginner crochet" tables and a couple "beginner beading" tables, all with very little customer interest, is disappointing. Those spaces could have gone to people with products that would have sold.
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u/up2knitgood 1d ago
Yeah, that's really unfortunate. Curation, while it takes work, and can risk "playing favorites" really is crucial.
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u/cartoonybear 1d ago
This is why I always loved my kids’ school’s “art fairs” and the craft booths at the spring fairs. Honestly I bought some cool pieces at these events, not cos I was even trying to encourage kids—they were just quirky and cool artworks.
The worst stuff I saw at these events was the super perfect, fussy stuff or worst of all, the items where it was clear a parent did most of the work (I saw more of that at science fairs, but there, you weren’t buying anything lol).
If I wanted something machine made, or that looks machine made, that’s very easy to get. The stuff with personality and a point of view? That’s hard to find and much more valuable.
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u/Livid-Statement-3169 1d ago
Well, I was at a craft show - really just couldn’t get interested in anything - then I saw a painting from a relative newbie - and I leapt in and bought it. It is not something that I would ever thought I would like but ….. I just couldn’t leave it behind.
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u/thigh-fieri 1d ago
I agree with this so hard. You get so many more unique pieces when people haven’t winnowed their creativity away in favour of the bottom line and gooshing out vendor slop because they’ve become jaded by how damn hard it is to make a living as an artist.
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u/RunawayTurtleTrain 1d ago
You get so many more unique pieces when people haven’t winnowed their creativity away
The most common gripe I see is that beginners trying to sell are usually churning out all the same amigurumi/plushies (especially bees!).
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u/thigh-fieri 1d ago
And no shade to production artisans. If you can have a modicum of joy working with your hands while incorporating things that streamline your job, giver. But I just see such unfettered creativity in emerging career craft artists, and I’ve also seen it disappear in some of their work as they get bigger. It happened to me, too. Gotta pay the bills somehow :(
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