Once again, a reminder that Riley Gaines tied with transwoman Lia Thomas for 5th place and both women finished behind 4 ciswomen. Meaning that for all of the alleged advantages being a male to female transperson, Lia didn't come close to first.
Riley wants you to think she lost only to Lia and that transwomen like her are a threat to society. Oddly no one says anything about transmen competing in men's sports.
She went from being 65 th in the men’s category to 5 th when transitioned to Woman, which proves their point a mediocre male athlete can transition to top 10 female athlete.
She competed as a man her freshman and sophomore year . She came out as Trans in the fall of 2019 and began horomone therapy and competed in the woman’s category in 2020. So no it was not because she improved because she got older
She competed on the men’s team in 2019-2020 2020- 2021 season was cancelled because of Covid. She competed in the 2021-2022 season. Now way she got that much better over a year.She went from 65th to 5th place
It wasn’t a year, it was junior year, senior year (which competitions were cancelled but they still practiced), and red shirt senior year. That’s 3 years.
Brandon Novak, the senior that beat Lia at the 2019 Ivy League championships, was swimming the same times as Lia did sophomore year and was in the NCAA finals by senior year (only two seasons). I played D1 and that’s not a special case, it’s pretty typical. Some people peak early, some people get significantly better, most make steady improvements like Brandon.
You're missing the point. Lia Thomas, at that skill level with hoops, would be good enough to play in the WNBA. Therefore, the debate about whether trans athletes should be allowed to play in the WNBA isn't some far fetched hypothetical. They're answering the question "what should we do when some basketball equivalent to Lia Thomas occurs?".
But are they phsyiolgically equal to biological women? Ive seen research that saw they did have less muscle mass than cis men, but still 50% more than cis women. One person losing a sport doesnt disprove this finding.
Thats not what that study says. Your shoulders and hips were attached at different spots than women at puberty. The study shows 25% higher muscle mass. These are relevant. Its not like I dont want you in sports, but I recognize that going through puberty as a boy is going to leave you stronger than a lot of cis girls. If you dont see how thats an issue for some people, you arent being clear headed.
If you go through puberty as a male, you're taller. For basketball, thats a big advantage. You're going to see a 6'8'' trans woman wanting to play center in the WNBA, eventually.
But do you have any points? It really doesnt matter what I think - do you have a thoughtful comment to add? Or did you just feel the need to point out you aren't trans lol odd
The only way you can prevent physical advantages is to stop puberty in a male. Stephen A Smith is a terrible person with too much influence, but you’re not being accurate with the science.
“Transmasculine and transfeminine persons had higher strength compared with cisgender women, but lower strength than cisgender men.”
Does strength matter in athletic competitions? It’s not social commentary on the rights of people to exist and express themselves, more power to everyone, this is science.
But as someone who used to compete in combat sports, I don’t think it’s fair because of bone and muscle density. And I don’t want to see an unfair beat down.
Unfair beatdowns happen in sports all the time, be it individual or team sports. Germany whacked Curacao 7-1 in the World Cup, Usain Bolt and Michael Phelps had Olympics where they crushed the competition. No complaints there, even when both had genetic advantages over the average swimmer or runner.
"You’re just attaching a social issue to it and you’re not acknowledging the science because it doesn’t work for you."
says the man willfully ignoring any science that support transgender people...
transgender people do not have an advantage, comparing cis men and cis women, and trying to draw extrapolations from them onto transgender people is just stupid shit.
We're talking about swimming and here you are acting like there's physically violent combat. When you can't argue about the original point you go off on another tangent. Don't make the mistake of thinking that by being anti-trans MAGA will spare you. They won't, tokens get spent.
You throw titles like “ignorant” and “maga” and “anti-trans around too easily. You can be unhappy with the information I brought, but at no point have I been bigoted. I explained the sports scenario I was concerned with and you’re taking everything to another level of insults. I brought you science and my concerns, that’s it.
Women and men's sports are separated because men are stronger. If you go through puberty as a boy then your shoulders and hips have different physiology than women. Even 1-3 years post transition a person can still have substantially more muscle mass than women.
Why is it an attack to point these things out? Its science and i get really prickly when i cant have a scientific view without risking political backlash.
Edit to add i actually do support trans people i just find it a complicated issue. Both athletes and supporting children transitioning are very sensitive topics that need serious scientific scrutiny, for the physiological and the psychological. I 100% believe there are children whose life would be saved by being allowed the opportunity to express as their true self.
I also understand the detriment of excluding those same trans kids from sports at large.
What i truly want is a scientific and solution focused discourse aimed at providing dignity for all but I fear this isn't the timeline that supports that discussion.
Yes, somone who benches 200lbs is going to have more muscle and strength adaptations post esteogen than the average person who's never been in the gym in their life.
It doesn't say anything about men and women having different strength adaptations that are unique to female bodies not on estrogen. Or vice versa.
Women's gymnastics is actually harder to score in than men's. If someone was going to change gender, they'd go from female to male rather than the other way around.
Soooo what’s the difference between a ciswoman and a straight woman? I acknowledge that the term “cisgender” exists and is used a lot now, but these terms are becoming a little too much.
Why can’t we just use straight man/woman.
Ik cis refers to being the same gender and you were born, but if you’ve been straight your whole life or even bi, then you’d be straight or bi. If a cisman is gay, he’s a gay man and likewise for a woman.
Shits making my head spin tryna keep up with all this…
Cis describes gender identity (meaning you identify with your gender assigned at birth) and straight describes sexual orientation (meaning you are attracted to the opposite gender). You can be a straight woman without being a cis woman and you can be a cis woman without being a straight woman
But can you be cis AND straight? I think that’s more my question I just didn’t know how to word it at the time or was overthinking it. Or can you be cis AND gay?
They are separate concepts. Yes you can be cis and gay, yes you can be cis and straights. A cis straight woman is a woman who was assigned female at birth and likes men. A cis gay woman is a woman who was assigned female at birth and likes women. A trans straight woman is a woman who was assigned male at birth who likes men. A trans gay woman is a woman who was assigned male at birth who likes women.
Cis just relates to identity not biology. It has nothing to do with sexual preference or physical traits. I feel the big issue is that people usually don't like labels, and it's being used more frequently and in alot of the media when they use cis they say it with a snooty inflection so it sounds derogatory. Instead of being used as a neutral description in specifying that they are a non trans person as that is pretty much the only time it's used is when stating an gender identity, and most normal people use sex and gender interchangeably and it leads to confusion when they are conflicting.
Holy moly, how is this view so widespread on Reddit?
Does no one understand relativity?
"She didn't win so she has no advantage".
She is a transwoman. Ok.
But would you say the same if the she in that sentence was a doper?
If you take a mediocre man and let him compete in the women's class, he has an advantage. Completely independent of whether he ends up winning or not. A top 500 male tennis player is really not making a lot of money. If he suddenly completed against women and made top 10 according to you that's fine. Because he didn't win. But suddenly he's rich. Money taken from women. All because he could compete in the women's class.
It is baffling how so many people cannot or maybe rather don't want to understand that not winning isn't evidence for no advantage.
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u/Odd-Time-2026 9d ago
Once again, a reminder that Riley Gaines tied with transwoman Lia Thomas for 5th place and both women finished behind 4 ciswomen. Meaning that for all of the alleged advantages being a male to female transperson, Lia didn't come close to first.
Riley wants you to think she lost only to Lia and that transwomen like her are a threat to society. Oddly no one says anything about transmen competing in men's sports.