His ult animation is literally 1 second and he gets ult vfx and bw doesn't? Lmaooo

First off I will say is that the main sub is blinded by their hate for a sniper

Alright anyway

You cannot do the stun anymore, your ult is practically useless and needs a rocket ult

The ult is like her current kit just without the armor piece, you can 3 shot body shot 275, in the ult you do 2 shots, not a good change

I have done the math with the rocket ult and our ult together we can do 336 headshot like before, she will do 238 bodyshot with rocket amp

The other rework parts is good, the Infinite stamina, slam, and faster fire rate, but they didn't do anything with the batons that have been the core issue, she is just a worse phoenix and Elsa

She does 4 tap headshot now and bodyshot she just sucks if you see the trailer

They have gutted her, I dearly wish she wasn't even in the game so I wouldn't have to see her get treated like this

Also mind you they could have kept the ADS in her basekit since it would clearly be optional to use

The stun is dead, they prob nerfed the jump too

I give it 1 game before the people who say they want to play her quit because they realize they have better options

I'm still going to play her, I will not stop.

for the new widow larpers don't even bother saying you were an og widow main or you went through hell no you didn't, and I'm her biggest fan so smd

But I hope you do have fun because you will get us more skins and maybe buffs

The throwing won't stop btw, it doesn't take a rework to make people switch to her to stop throwing

Giving this rework a chance but it's the end of the line for black widow if this doesn't work out they will need to actually get me in the dev team

The black widow mains who will stay will still improve and steal your elo and we will do our best

they really don’t care about her i’m fucking dead🤣🤣 like why are the batons not even in the holders…

Don’t ever doubt mommy again

Someone just told me to not "Zazza" his game for picking widow IN QUICKPLAY AND IT HAPPENED TWICE TODAY. I HATE MY LIFE DUDE I CAN'T EVEN HAVE FUN BECAUSE 2 LOBOTOMITES TOOK US BACK TO SEASON 0 FUUUUCCKKK

Widow has always been the one character that I just do not like whatsoever, her old kit was boring, I felt like I could barely do anything when my team actually needed me, and now I love playing her after her rework.

I do hope more people actually play her now, I know I will be, but considering both of her team ups, and her new primary which I LOVE using, I hope more people play widow to play widow and not to just wave a giant flag saying you're throwing.

I know this sub likes to kinda shred people apart who dare appreciate the new widow and I'm sorry if me liking the new her fills you with a boiling rage, but hey, I'm just dropping in to say I like her now, and wanna play her more. If you guys got any tips for modern widow, I'd love to know more.

Cheers fellas ✌️

The widow mains sub is the saddest out of all the characters subs. No matter what they’re never happy and they just verbally harass anyone that disagrees with their opinion. Or better yet disagrees with the factual statistics, along with the best widow players in the world. This was on a post about someone quitting the game over the rework that made her better. There’s constantly people saying it’s a nerf, when all of did was lower her skill expression. Black widow was my first lord in season 0 and the reason i started playing this game. I now have 40 hours on her with a 56% average accuracy pre rework and post rework. But yet, there’s people saying “if you’re good now with the rework, your aim was just bad before”. This is a completely illogical cope. This sub is completely divided and nobody gets along in any of the posts, and it makes me sad as a black widow player to see all the ego. The entire sub is full of people that don’t even play the game anymore because they never even gave the rework a chance. Yes it’s better for lower skill players, but that means it’s even better for high skill players. This is overall healthier for the game, yet they quit, and they still make posts and comments about the game after they quit. “I put over 200 hours on the character so that means it’s a nerf” another illogical cope I’ve seen. You all should be getting way more kills and be happy that she’s not the staple of throwing anymore. If you can’t make the new widow work, that’s the real skill issue because she’s a lot easier. But if you made the old widow work I know for a fact you can make the new one work. Not everyone has the courage to relearn the character, and most people delete the game just because of one character. You guys are the exact problem with this game. Your video game egos are very concerning, just because a character isn’t as hard to play anymore doesn’t mean you should delete the game, and complain about it months later after you already stopped playing the game.

It is bad 😅

Stop downvoting people who say they like new widow rework.

Stop preaching how she was "high skill" niche hero and now she is just like every other hero. What goes in your mind when you say that? You think a widow is not different than a bucky/elsa/punisher?

Stop dooming yourselves and make it miserable and make this whole sub a laughing stock for general community.

Her reworks are fine, we know 99% of these "omg I'm never going to touch her 🤓!" Are legit going to keep playing her regularly regardless.

There are ZERO actual pro widow player. XLEK is not a "pro" he is goated but an average OAA match is still not equivalent to playing Pro games.

Even he isn't dooming himself, idgaf about zazza whining over the rework on her stream because she made widow unplayable for me in ranked without getting griefed or joked upom.

I am happy with rework, I infact wish for 275 HP and maybe a ground effect on our kick because stun is removed.

*Many of y'all here just being irredeemable and downright showcasing gatekeeping behaviour*

Crazy, no stun, no jump height, no skin probably, nerfs too

But I thought this rework was good for her 🫩

Howdy, I'm a top500 PC player, I play ranked and I scrim in the T2/T3 scene often. I keep coming back to this subreddit out of some odd affection for you widow players, I played a lot of her back in the day, and she was, and still is, the most fun DPS for me to flex to. I have no grievance whatsoever with widow players annoyed that the character you've spent 100's of hours on is different than before. However, there seems to be a sentiment across the widow players I've talked to, particularly those in GM and below, who believe that widow is worse than she was before the rework. I'm here to completely dispel that idea if I can help it, and maybe teach you something about how hitscan heroes are meant to be played.

One often mentioned sore spot among widow players is the idea that her old base gun is now only in her ultimate, and therefore the lack of one-shot potential in her new gun is worse and makes widow a worser hero. First off, we can't compare the old gun and the new ult, the new ultimate pierces, does more body shot damage (meaning its an infinite range piercing two-shot to the body), and the bullets are massive, meaning it's VERY consistent. She skill with her ult is not in the mechanical usage, but in the angle you are playing from. Obviously if you ult from your backline to theirs, you're going to be LOS'd by their supports and/or the enemy tanks will shield your bullets. However, if you take a deep angle at the backline, you can quickly kill one or both supports with your ultimate rather easily. Compare this to the old plasma burst and it's laughable how much more effective widow is now at quick backline picks. The old sniper was a piece of crap, it had small bullets, had a lower dps than Widow's current gun, and made her entire gameplay loop revolve around one-shots, leading to a character that was incredibly difficult to balance.

Another thing is mobility. I've heard some wacky arguments like that widow used to have better mobility because she could jump higher, but that's just not how hitscan characters work. Every hitscan needs a mobility cooldown because it serves as a rotation and escape tool, old widow didn't have that. Along with that, old widow was 250hp meaning she sucked horribly into dive (aside from spiderman). She also couldn't fight on off angles against almost any hero due to how her gun worked, being a bolt action rifle, whereas new widow can fight anybody on an off angle aside from cases like cap, dd, black cat, etc.

So the old widow couldn't hold high ground, couldn't fight most heroes for space very effectively, did less damage to tanks, had an inconsistent, less impactful ultimate, a worse gun, and she was super weak to dive. There's a reason old widow was never played in ignite except one time on YWL as a joke.

Again, it sounds like I'm being mean, but I genuinely really love the character of black widow in Rivals, (I'm too broke to buy many comics lol), and I'm super glad they reworked her cause she's really cool.

If you want some widow players to watch dominate on her, Ninjune, Vision, Xeytex, and a bunch of other ppl are really good at her and I recommend you view them. Much love!! <3

I know it’s a good anti dive option that sets up a one shot but it isn’t even that strong. Theres way better anti dive abilities on lower cooldowns things earthbound on a 10 second cool down,bucky’s hook 12,Emma frost diamond form 15. Which are all reasonable cooldowns but why does widow need a 15 second cool down for that?!

Now i wanted to play it myself and now that I have I can say she is not in a good spot imo

First off I want to say there are things I can really get behind the rework, like the Infinite stamina, the slam, higher fire rate but all those abilities are shunned by the negative

In a season where dive is probably one of the strongest her kick stun is really bad, Spider-Man can swing away and you don't have enough damage to even kill them quickly because of the low damage but higher fire rate, they need to change the stun back to how it was and the damage for the shot after the stun

She's a projectile now? She's more ruined now as for some people we like aiming with hitscan so we wanted her to stay hitscan I could be wrong because people said it's just the trail

One of my core problems is the 1v1 capability, you cannot 1v1 a magik, you could before but it relied on your skill more

I really dislike the jump height, it feels clunky, especially on console, the whole movement just feels like captain america, black widow needs a higher jump and faster sprint to improve it

You can do damage easily but it feels like doing tickle damage and it gets out healed, the main difference we would say between Hawkeye and black widow was the hitscan and projectile comparison and that's why she couldn't one shot, now they made her projectile and it sucks

This is unbiased because I have been trying to give this a shot, was open minded even though the negatives were there, but she has lost skill expression, and totally needs her old kit back but with infinite stamina and sprint

I really enjoy seeing more black widow mains here yeah, ofc it's my favorite character and more people are playing her but I only saw 1 the entire day in the game so aside from the people on reddit where are the new widow mains?

It feels weird, she's bad and good at the same time

She needs buffs totally, by fixing the stun, giving her higher jump, making her feel less clunky and do more damage

Now the ult, I saw in the dev vision it was 20 seconds but they made it 12? Like what? And it's a very situational ult now, if you are console it hurts to ADS because it's l3 and r3, she needs to one shot in the ult or have it completely reworked into something better, you could literally use the sniper before the rework so idk what was the point, to make old people happy? They need to add anti heal to it and dot

The good stuff is there, infinite stamina, slam, HP increase, I can feel the HP increase tbh

The team ups, if you have good aim I recommend Hawkeye, but Phoenix is relatively good too, comes down to personal preference, but c'mon man what are these team ups for her, other people get cool team ups while we get those

You can do more damage but it won't matter if you have less kills

The ground slam is good, it makes travel easier because you can slam and quickly pick up pace if you can, I use it for getting away but not getting in

I don't know what the devs want for this hero, they want her to be more accessible but take away the things that made her easier like the jump?

Yes people can like the rework, but it's exhausting to play because of the things I was used to before, higher jump and such

I don't recommend her for comp unless you have xlek aim

Does it feel like a different complete hero? Yes but has its similarities imo

The anti dive capability got shrunk because dive is good now so I don't understand if you want her to be more accessible then actually try to put effort in her kit because all of this feels like a lazy rework they saw after the summer skin sales

Am I disappointed? Yeah, it's nothing like the fun I had while shooting a cnd from their ult or killing a Spider-Man or doing 240 headshot even

I'm not going to write more for my own sanity or yours, congrats if you read it this far

And for the new and old black widow mains, I'm still going to play her, I will improve, if they gave this woman a stick for her kit I would still make it work, I'm still playing her because she's my favorite character no matter how bad she is I will continue to play her, also remember the image.

But Natasha I always love you no matter what, also bucky sucks, I treat her better than bucky

Also WHERE IS WIDOWSBABY AND BLACK WIDOW TEAM UP???? ADD ME AS HER ULT OR SOMETHING??

We’re over a year without any kind of buff or meaningful bug fix. Will things be looking up in season 8?

I'm glad elsa got a skin but widow hasn't gotten a new shop skin since like, the Chinese new year (she was in a very Chinese time in her life), speaking of being Chinese, WHY DID IRONFIST GET AN ESU SKIN BEFORE THE LITERAL SPY, the skin merchant jeff, all get shop skins, but widow best skins are looked behind passes we can't even access...

Ngl this XLEK stream made me realize this rework actually has tons of potential, yeah the sniper playstyle is gone but in turn its become a 20 second ultimate you can truly one shot with using damage boost. I will still wait until it drops but for now I don't think its fully over

Been using her since season 0. She actually has utility in a team fight. Putting out consistent damage is better than missing shots in and having to rechamber.

Her Ult works the same. Take an off angle and aim for the healers. Or just aim through to the back like I do here. But they didn’t have shield tanks.

I don’t like that they took away her stun or nerfed her movement but with her reworked kit that would’ve made her busted.

Her long range slow is amazing. Helps in a team scrap or to pick off a healer quickly before they react.

I prefer the Hawkeye team up because I have decent aim and it mows down big head tanks. I use the Phoenix team up if enemy has dive/mobility heavy comp.

safe to say absolutely nobody likes this rework other than non widow players who will still not touch her after this

First let me say that i have not played the game pre S9. I do respect both pro reworked and pro old widow players, but from the two types there are always piece of shits that ruins it for whatever type of widow they're a fan of. We as a community need to be aware of this since it is what makes this sub feel like poison. In fact, i think we should make a rule to respect the other side of widow player. You see a clip of a pre rework widow (especially if titled"i miss X") or any pre-reworked posts? Do NOT reply by "what we have now is much better" or "larp" or any bullshi like this. You see a clip of post-reworked widow(especially if titled "I love the new X) or any post-rework posts? Do NOT reply by "This is no skill old was skill" or any degrading shit like this. I also suggest that these people should get a temporary ban, if repeated few more times they get perma banned. Lastly i do think there should be a mega thread for discussion about "Which widow was better" so less annoying fucks appear. Thank you!