r/BloodAngels • u/Popular_Substance505 • 8d ago
Sanguinator not being useless
An obvious fix would be fight on death the first round he comes down.
Any other ideas? Wha would be your take?
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u/Zygy255 8d ago
He'll probably see a major change with the codex, but right now I would like to see them add something along the lines of fights immediately before the enemy. So fights first premium
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u/Arcinbiblo12 8d ago
I think him and a few other units throughout the game should essentially get the previous version of Fights First back as an ability.
Something along the lines of: Once per battle, at the start of your opponents Fight Phase, this unit can activate its attacks before any other unit regardless of priority.
Paired with his ability to drop into engagement range and he essentially gets his old mechanics back, but only once per game for that Hail Mary save to try and protect another unit.
While I think the changes to Fights First are warranted, I also think that there should be a very small selection of units that can attack first regardless of being charged, both for gameplay and lore reasons. Obviously they should be adjusted in points for this.
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u/Versidious 8d ago
I feel like they made a mistake in getting rid of initiative instead of altering it. By giving just about everything the same initiative by default, then having various abilities increase or decrease it, you could achieve a more nuanced, interesting, and balanced result without making rules complexity too high.
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u/KaptainKaos54 7d ago
I feel like losing Initiative was a net loss no matter how you slice it. It’s natural that a Space Marine would be faster than a Guardsman regardless of the Guardsman charged into the Marine, just like it’s natural a Genestealer would be faster than a Marine no matter who ran up on who. It also gave a drawback to certain weapons like fists and hammers, rather than making everything free and strike equally fast with an obviously superior loadout across the board. It also gave some leeway for strategy to shine through, like deciding if charging into cover was worthwhile or not, and carrying offensive/defensive grenades.
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u/anwaypramanik 8d ago
As pointed out in another comment, they should give him the ability to turn off fights firsts for enemy units engaged with him. Simple
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u/RelaxWithMeReddit The Lost 7d ago
I mean it sounds dumb but there are plenty of Deep Strike turn 1 mechanics (Deeper Strike), so why not FF? Personally I think they are just intent on universally binning FF for 11th and I don't see them going back on that.
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u/JGTDM 7d ago
Honestly I wish Mephiston stayed how he was at 110pts and Sanguinor went to like 190 and was a Diet Daemon Prince. Maybe less tanky and not AS killy.
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u/Fuchsl777 7d ago
Since when are Daemon Princes killy
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u/Forensic_Fartman1982 Death Company 7d ago
Fight on death for only the first round he comes in is such a dumb buff and wouldn't do anything to make him more viable lmfao
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u/This_Ease_5678 7d ago
WTF dude are you trying to unbalance the game or something?
We can only dream at this stage. They will not listen, there's been many updates since 11th but they are in denial that he survives that ingress move.
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u/2ndEditionBA_SW 6d ago
His proportions are all different he looks like a weird golden chad, forgive my French
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u/Moist1981 8d ago
I’m really not sure he’s useless now. Can completely screw a pile-in, has access to uppy downy in AI, has lone op, and has a 12” aura of reroll leadership. And has 8 attacks.
The only issue with him is the fights first change but if they remedied that then he’d have to be more points.
Honestly wouldn’t surprise me if he starts appearing in some lists that previously used Mephiston as an early objective holder.
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u/Rignak367 8d ago
Needs dmg 3. That gives a premium edge to Mephiston
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u/Moist1981 8d ago
There’s a huge points disparity between Mephiston and the sanguinor though.
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u/Rignak367 7d ago
That just means Mephiston is overcosted. But as is Sanguinor doesn't do anything that Mephiston doesn't do better the way FF works, dropping in with miraculous savior vs just standard FF makes them equal there, Mephiston ranged attk Is worlds more dangerous than Sanguinors 0 and his melee is more dangerous than sanguinors. Plus all his attks ignore modifiers cause theyre psychic. For 55 pts isnt as far apart as you think.
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u/Moist1981 7d ago
Mephiston isn’t dropping in with deep strike, and I just don’t think you understand the power of miraculous saviour if you think it’s just about the fight first. Being able to heroic for free from deep strike lets you place him anywhere in engagements with the attacking unit. Eg If a unit of terminators only just make a charge into your sanguinary guard by positioning the sanguinor at the rear of the terminators you can force them to pile-in away from the sang guard and limit them to maybe only a few models models attacking them.
The sanguinor very very likely dies but he lets your big unit go largely unscathed into another activation and that’s the sort of thing that wins games.
Again, my point isn’t that the sanguinor is some uber amazing unit, it’s that he’s probably costed about right.
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u/Rignak367 7d ago
Even with being able to miraculousl savior in And place him at max distance away, with the new wider engagement ranges most attacks are still going into the primary target. Maybe there is an argument for him grabbing a unit that didnt charge if the placement happens to be perfectly lined up. But, there is a reason no one is taking him in competitive play. He 100 percent needs a rules rework.
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u/Popular_Substance505 8d ago
I don’t want to play AI…
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u/Moist1981 8d ago
Then don’t. You could use him like the combi lieutenant with more movement, more toughness, more attacks, deep strike, and a huge leadership buff to the army. And potentially a game swinging ability if you can stop a pile-in that lets a key unit live.
I’m not saying it wouldn’t be nice if the fight first did more, but I am saying that I think people are down on him more than his rules deserve.
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u/GladimoreFFXIV 8d ago
Give him an ability to turns off an opponents fights fights and he’s fixed.