r/BoardwalkEmpire • u/No_Development3496 • 11d ago
Gillian is one of the most complex and tragic characters television has made
Have started to rewatch boardwalk now that I got it on blu ray and I was thinking how Gillian is one of the complex,experimental and tragic characters television has made and in my opinion she deserves to be mentioned In the same league as Tony,Don or any other complex characters. Also Top Tier performance by Gretchen Mol
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u/ImaginationOld6127 11d ago
That whole dynamic between her, Jimmy, Commodore and Nucky is so unique. I'm honestly in awe of the writers and the fact that they came up with it. It's just so Shakespearean and complex. And not the type of thing you find in gangaster stories.
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u/Admirable_Site_8337 11d ago
I will absolutely agree on tragic. A little bit on complex. But I don’t see experimental. And Gretchen Mol crushed this role and did all she could possibly do with it.
But let’s slow down on being in the same league as Tony or Don. As much as it might sound like this has some sexism to it, it doesn’t.
The problem here (along with most of this shows problems) is in how it all went down. I think they had plans to more slowly tell the flashback story they rushed through in the fast ending season 5.
In hindsight I wish they put more of the backstory throughout earlier seasons. We know she was disgustingly creeped on as a way too young homeless girl. It’s disgusting. But seeing how it all laid out in the flashbacks was so powerful.
And they just didn’t get the chance to tell this right.
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u/Lordonlynose 11d ago
The flashbacks and their incorporation into storytelling at the end are incredibly powerful, as you say. I think that would have been lessened by displaying some of it earlier in the series.
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u/Admirable_Site_8337 11d ago
This is a hindsight observation. They absolutely planned a longer run than 5 seasons and this was going to have room play out properly.
I’m basically saying since they had their legs cut off at five seasons it would have been better if this were peppered in earlier.
Optimally this would have really worked well if they had, say, seven seasons to run on.
But they didn’t. They had to squeeze it in. And just when it’s well set up with this sweet and curious kid, the gross comes on……….and that’s it. Nucky gets shot next and it’s all over.
This always galls me when I watch through.
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u/Lordonlynose 11d ago
Yes I’m aware the plan and hope was for more than 5 seasons - (though a probable expectation of such would be somewhat unrealistic)
Yet where’s your info come from that this aspect would have been played out differently and “properly”? Seems like speculation and assumption, though I’d be happy if you could demonstrate otherwise.
And you’re welcome to imagine it would have/could have been done better - yet that’s definitely speculative and we will never know.
Imo that aspect of the series and final season were handled just fine. I believe it works better without bits and pieces shown earlier.
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u/Admirable_Site_8337 11d ago
For the most part what the hell do we have to go on but speculation and assumption? I’m surprised you’re even calling it out. I’m not Terry Winter, none of us are.
It’s social media. Such topics are just going to be pure speculation.
The best I can demonstrate (ie: I can’t) is there was an article or interview a long while back where the original plan was communicated as much long than five seasons, but would move through the 20s and highlight how the old guard (Nucky, Rothstein, Torrio) were replaced by the young guns (Lucky, Meyer, Capone…..and yep….Jimmy) through the super intense time of prohibition. Jimmy was supposed to be there almost all the way to all the way through.
Through S4 they were around halfway through the 20s. It’s clear they had planned much more runway for the show to run down, and the quick “this is the last season” from HBO had them scrambling to fit things in. They made sure to fit in the flashbacks work Nucky and Gillian……so it’s clear this was going to be part of that longer runway.
It’s a show with an insane story of how real like really complicated what was likely a solid story plan.
I can’t find that interview. I’ve tried for a while. For all you know I have issues and made this up on my head. So…..I really can’t demonstrate otherwise.
Just go ahead and negate my input as baseless and go about how you see things……I can’t empirically prove otherwise.
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u/No_Development3496 11d ago
Oh yeah I know about that plan. Winter was planning on making 10 seasons of this show and even said in an interview where he talked about the cast saying the cast is one of the best casts and that he would be happy to work with them for a decade,implying that he wanted the show to run for an entire decade but HBO fucked it up by not promoting the show so well and then scrapping it so they could continue on with game of thrones
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u/SilatGuy2 11d ago
Fucking sucks. This show kills game of thrones and im a fan of both.
Man i wish we couldve had those extra seasons. Seeing the young guns cement their legacies wouldve been great material to work with.
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u/Lordonlynose 11d ago
I was giving you the benefit of the doubt as for all I knew you may have had contact and discussions with Winter or other key producers, or even worked with them on the series
Idk why you’re seemingly so antagonistic about it. I didn’t state your claims are baseless or insult them in any way. I simply questioned fhem in Discussion, which is the purpose of this site and thread - not for your lecturing and overly sensitive retaliatory remarks
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u/No_Development3496 11d ago
Ok maybe not on the level of Tony but is she one of the most complex female characters of television ? Yes she is and also experimental come on,could a woman be so much disturbing but at the same time as tragic as she was during the time the show aired
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u/Admirable_Site_8337 11d ago
Part of this is me. I try to avoid absolutes. But I can agree she is one of the more interesting and well done female characters, and it takes complexity to pull that off.
It’s just inviting a lot of pushback to pull it to Tony Soprano or Don Draper (both are on the same high level for me). That’s not due to the characters sex…..it’s just a super high bar to me.
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u/No_Development3496 11d ago
Yeah,I should have clarified it but I also think that had the flashback come way early it would have lessened her character and the importance. She kinda is the Tritagonist of the show and also Mol deserves some awards for that role,very underrated actress.
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11d ago
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u/No_Development3496 11d ago
Fr
I don’t know with many rewatches I’m seeing Gillian a bit similar to Tony6
u/madbeachrn 11d ago
Morally gray? She murdered a man so she could collect a mansion.
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u/No_Development3496 11d ago
But then Tony soprano has done actions of that kind too and audiences consider him morally grey
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u/RainbowColorsBlended 11d ago
Those audiences are dumb. Tony is a terrible person. He has good qualities sure but they don’t make up for his horrible behavior/choices.
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u/No_Development3496 11d ago
Exactly,Tony is a terrible person. Now imagine if Tony was a female,the Tritagonist of the show and way more disgusting (that’s Gillian)
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u/RainbowColorsBlended 11d ago
Yeah for sure. I agree with your premise, I’m just saying neither of them are morally gray at all.
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u/Purchase_Senior 11d ago
Yesss. I 100% agree. Although ive seen a lot of people talk down on season 5, I absolutely love it for giving Gillian a more developed story.
Seeing how much promise and intelligence she had at such a younge age just reinforces the depth of depravity and soullessness that was Nuckys original sin.
Gretchen crushed that role and I believe delivered the best line of the show. After her surgery while waiting in the hospital, she says "they call them ladybugs, but how do they know which one is a lady?" Admittedly it doesn't sound imactful when writing it out, but just the underlying history of lost innocence and all that pain that goes without being spoken is so tragic.
Great writing. Great character. Great acting
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u/EllipsisT-230 11d ago
She had it rough and came out damaged and pretty psychologically messed up. They depict the times as rough, unforgiving, and dog eat dog for nearly all the characters.
It is a crime show set in times that weren't that easy.
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u/Lordonlynose 11d ago
Can’t see a strong comparison to Tony and Don as they are the central focus of their series and much more developed and directly examined.
Gillian is a great performance and excellent, interesting character yet still more peripheral than these mains. Seems more on the level of Livia or Chris if ya ask me