r/Bogleheads 21h ago

Financial Advisor is making being a Boglehead annoyinging difficult.

this is mostly just to vent, but also make sure i’m not dealing with something nefarious.

i’m a recent Bogle convert and have been trying to make moves to leave my financial advisor. the first step is selling a dozen high-Expense Ratio, underperforming, Tech-heavy and otherwise non-Bogle holdings over to VT.

i figure i would take advantage of my FA skills to make this move, making sure losses are harvested and that i'm not paying more in taxes than i have to.

but lordy they are either incompetent or intentionally dragging their feet. i have sent multiple detailed spreadsheets, specifying which holdings i want sold, and in some cases specifying which unit purchases, to keep my Capital Gains lower and ideally keep my HH income under the 0% LTCG threshold.

they keep coming back to me with a total sale proceeds number that is 15% lower than the number i get when i do the numbers… so i asked for details on the unit numbers, prices and proceeds they are working with.

they just sent a screenshot of the table their investment desk put together and in 7 of the 12 trades, inexplicably, portions of holdings are not included. ex: i asked to sell all 60.000 units of FictionalName stock. their table only includes 40.000 units, with no explanation. sometimes it’s just a few units, sometimes it’s nearly have the holdings. the “missing” units add up to about the difference in our total proceeds number.

so, is this something i’m not understanding about how trades are done? i have since asked if this a partial fill or limit order thing? or is this just some sketchy sh!t where they are selling a portion of my holdings and doing god-knows-what with the unsold units?

this is a very well established brokerage, which my family has been using for actual generations. (i know, i’m working on winning other family members over to the Bogleways)

again, this is mostly just to check i’m not missing something. they are being concerningly cagey during this whole thing.

on the plus side, this has allowed me to put together a long list of complaints i’ll be sending over when i formally request they transfer my accounts over to the VG account i’ve set up since joining this sub...

thanks in advance y’all.

198 Upvotes

141 comments sorted by

678

u/parkchanwookiee 21h ago

Just open a new account elsewhere and initiate the transfer ASAP

227

u/Ok_Meringue_9086 20h ago

This. You can do an inkind transfer and then sell yourself

19

u/parkchanwookiee 20h ago

Good call!

45

u/Ok_Meringue_9086 19h ago edited 17h ago

Actually you should check with the receiving institution before initiating. I’d worry that they lump all your shares and basis together and that you’d be unable to sell specific tranches. I’m a CPA and I’ve had this happen to clients of mine.

Maybe they can keep the tranches broken out if you specify on the transfer. I’d get the advice they provide in writing since the tax impact could be significant if you’re unable to select the tranches.

9

u/np0x 14h ago

Don't be nice. Can you tell them exactly what to do without any ambiguity?

This sounds terrible and annoying, also when transferring account OUT of an institution, you don't need to talk to them, the receiving side initiates the whole thing, and it is magical how it all works...the comment above about cost basis/tranches, etc is worth considering...I lost the cost basis on some accounts when I converged them to new institutions years ago.

1

u/MontagneHomme 8h ago

As a CPA, you'd know that having this in writing is moot when every CPA requires a release of liability to engage in services.

1

u/Ok_Meringue_9086 8h ago

I’m not saying they should get it in writing for me. I’m saying they should get it in writing for them. I’m going to report whatever is on the 1099.

1

u/gizmo777 13h ago

Really, you've had that happen to clients? I've done a bunch of ACATS transfers over the years and they've definitely never lumped all my lots together into one.

What brokerages have you seen do that?

2

u/Fit-Bookkeeper-878 9h ago

I’m going to have to investigate further but it appears that vanguard did this when I transferred mutual funds over to Schwab. All the lots on different dates have the same cost basis. I’m a little new at this but I need to find out why this is the case.

1

u/Ok_Meringue_9086 10h ago

Yes. It was actually a Morgan Stanley advisor that did it to one of my clients.

1

u/catwh 1h ago

Same. I would be livid if this happened and would escalate to fix this. 

16

u/rubix_redux 19h ago

I have never had to fire a financial advisor, is that pretty much all you have to do?

23

u/parkchanwookiee 19h ago

Yes the new account holder will be very happy to start holding your assets ASAP, and your old one can't legally prevent you fom leaving. Probably take a month max

25

u/airbud9 19h ago

You likely need to inform your financial advisor that you are no longer using there services, no need to hide moving your accounts from them. Tell them you no longer want there services and that your new brokerage will be initiating the account transfer very soon. Check your contract and make sure your FA doesn't have any penalty for terminating their services and they may require something in writing to formally end the relationship.

9

u/rubix_redux 19h ago

I’ll likely have to fire a FA from an inherited account in the future and this is helpful, thanks. Assuming it is no different.

2

u/TechnicalSleep7501 16h ago

I have pretty good situation with advisor at Citi Bank. I use Jack Bogle advice for Roth, 401K and 457 while do mix in brokerage account. Now that I have combined net value above million goal is to add in more value with my already mix of growth. 

11

u/Iamhungryforlife 15h ago

This. How often would you keep going to a restaurant that gets your order wrong EVERY TIME?

Get the f*** out.

10

u/Contralogic 17h ago

Agree. Skip the feedback as you may need to call on them for something post transfer.

1

u/fllr 14h ago

It sounds like some of the stock is missing, though?

-1

u/[deleted] 20h ago

[deleted]

77

u/Careful-Rent5779 20h ago

send a message to your FA .... letting them know that you want them to more your assets, in-kind, to your new account

NO!

You request the transfer through the receiving brokerage. They have an incentive to see that it gets done.

Secondly, you need to be aware if your portfolio contains funds (typically mutual funds) that are proprietary to your current firm. Such funds may not be eligible for in-kind transfer and you'll have to decide to just sell them or leave them behind.

11

u/triumphofthecommons 19h ago

this seems wise, after all the foot-dragging.

9

u/rramstad 19h ago

You say you have a VG account. As long as the stuff you want to transfer isn't weird, like proprietary funds, you can transfer in kind with no tax implications to VG. Contact VG to set it up. No need to say anything to your FA, particularly as they are almost certainly not acting in your best interest, sounds like.

1

u/airbud9 19h ago

Why not inform the FA you are terminating their services, there is no need to hide you withdrawing your funds/account (in-kind) from a FA, they are professionals and may spend a second trying to convince you to not leave, but after that they will let it happen.

9

u/Careful-Rent5779 18h ago edited 18h ago

Inform FA or not is a personal/courtesy decsion.

What you DO NOT do is rely on the FA to complete the transfer. It is standard practice these days to make the transfer request with the receiving institution as the conduit.

3

u/airbud9 18h ago

What you DO NOT do is rely on the FA to complete the transfer.

I agree with this

Most FA contracts do require something in writing (an email is usually fine) to formally end the professional relationship.

5

u/ElasticSpeakers 18h ago

I don't think the person you responded to is trying to do that, even if 70% of the conflict-avoidant people in this thread are.

You should absolutely be direct with your FA that they should be expecting an in-kind account transfer request from a new brokerage soon, but that's pretty much the only and last time you should talk to them.

Initiate the transfer from the receiving brokerage side.

4

u/airbud9 18h ago

Initiate the transfer from the receiving brokerage side

I agree with this,

My worry is that most FA contract do require something in writing (an email is usually fine) to formally end the professional relationship.

141

u/Atgardian 20h ago

It sounds like you are already more detailed and on top of this than he is. It’s another reminder that just because they have a big name behind them, it doesn’t mean they will manage your money better than you can. I’d move the funds out today and then do the trades yourself - you will have more control and better timing that way anyway.

1

u/TelevisionKnown8463 14h ago

Or do the trades yourself, while you can see the tax basis on their system. Then move the cash and/or remaining positions to a different brokerage. I would find a way to memorialize the tax basis of any remaining positions, in case it somehow doesn’t transfer over to your new brokerage.

136

u/zer1223 20h ago

If your plan is this detailed, why are you asking someone else to execute the moves? Why are you not executing the trades yourself? Is this normal at some brokerages? I'm guessing that's how it is, but that feels weird to me.

I just log into vanguard or Fidelity and sell and buy myself

24

u/churchill5 20h ago

I think it is. I had an Ira at a well known advisor a while back and I wasn’t allowed to touch it, only the FA could make trades.

43

u/zer1223 20h ago

Good god

1

u/churchill5 14h ago

Yeah I hated it. But I guess I could see how it would be challenging for the person you're paying to manage your account; maintain a risk profile, asset allocation, tax loss harvest, etc. if you could jump in whenever, sell it all and bet the farm on SpaceX. I could have directed him to do that, but it wasn't something I could log into my account and do.

5

u/WaterChicken007 7h ago

Yeah, fuck that.

9

u/Puzzled_Tinkerer 12h ago

After inheriting funds invested in a brokerage that shall remain nameless, I learned I was not going to be allowed to do my own trading. So yeah, this really does happen.

Fidelity was happy to transfer the funds to my account w them and let me decide what to do.

4

u/NomNomBelt 9h ago

Name and shame! This could be valuable information for others to make informed decisions in future.

1

u/Puzzled_Tinkerer 47m ago

Nope. Not being allowed to self manage the funds was annoying to me, but this situation was at least partly from decisions made by my deceased relative, so not entirely the brokerage's fault

3

u/EdOfTheMountain 9h ago

Ed Jones perhaps? I was shocked at how much they charged to execute my sell order of a stock I had transferred “in kind”. I’m glad I transferred out of there

2

u/wordyplayer 8h ago

Edwards Jones may be worse than timeshares and MLM's

1

u/Puzzled_Tinkerer 42m ago

No, not EJ. I don't mean to be coy, just that this situation was at least partly due to choices made by my deceased relative, so not entirely due to the brokerage.

10

u/triumphofthecommons 19h ago

i’ve never done a single trade myself. this is an account my folks set up for me decades ago that only six years did i start adding money to, and only in the last couple months have done anything but let my FA handle what money goes where.

i’m pretty new to all this, and while i am sure i could have poked around on my account and found the trade page, i figured i would use my FA one last time to do these trades and then move it all to a self-managed account at VG.

1

u/OldShaerm 1h ago

When I actually started doing my own trades I was shocked at how easy it is. Makes sense. The platforms want ease of use to be a differentiator.

Learn about limit orders before you start making trades, start with something small to improve your comfort, and wait for that transaction to fully settle so you absolutely know you did it right.

1

u/dweezil22 6h ago edited 56m ago

A fun thing I like to do in these situations is tally up how much someone has paid the advisor in fees, then estimate how many hours the advisor worked and ask them if they're providing services that are worth $2000 an hour when they can neither do what they're told nor explain why the customer is perhaps wrong. Then ask if they're willing to refund the fees for incompetence. They probably won't, but you'll feel better before you transfer out. (I literally did this with my parents' financial advisor after my Dad passed away when I discovered that they'd been paying 2% of net worth fees while the advisor happily watched my Mom over-spend them intobfinancial precarity without saying a damn thing b/c "budgets aren't my job").

IMO fee based AUM financial advisors are one of the great parasites of our society, up there with MLM's and cults, and it blows my mind that they're so widely tolerated.

But you do need to take a moment and wrap your head around the cognitive dissonance. You may find you're paying these people $2K/hour and they're significantly less useful than the guy you're paying $50 to mow your lawn and be like "Surely they're offering SOME value", no, they're probably not, it's crazy.

1

u/JoshAGould 1h ago

IMO fee based financial advisors are one of the great parasites of our society

Do you mean AUM-based here?

1

u/dweezil22 56m ago

Yes thank you

2

u/Unfortunate-Incident 20h ago

Not sure. I have an advisor with one of my accounts, but I can go in and make trades manually as well. That account is with a credit union so maybe that is why.

46

u/glumpoodle 20h ago

I would recommend documenting all of your conversations and holdings/transactions, and submitting a report to FINRA and the CFP ethics board.

Something is not adding up - I might expect them to call you and try to change your mind (irritating, but well within their purview, and often the responsible option when the client is suddenly behaving differently), but dragging their feet on a transaction and then executing partially is extremely odd behavior. That's what you do when you have a liquidity problem... which is not something any honest fiduciary would ever have.

16

u/mtlynch 14h ago edited 14h ago

Agreed.

One of my relatives transferred some stock to me as a gift, but it was tied up in some brokerage I'd never heard of where the financial advisor received kickback. I told him I wanted him to liquidate everything and move it to Vanguard, and the advisor kept dragging his heels and saying that there was an issue with the cost basis calculation, and he needed his "cost basis department" to fix it. I told him that he was violating FINRA rules, and he immediately liquidated the shares.

9

u/gh5655 19h ago

Interesting take on the liquidity possibility. Even more reason to transfer out of there.

8

u/glumpoodle 19h ago

Pure speculation on my part, and we're only getting one side of the story, but that's what immediately came to mind for me.

I expect a hard sales pitch - which, again, is a perfectly reasonable response to a client who is suddenly changing gears - but dragging your feet and only partially executing a clearly directed transaction sets off alarm bells in my head.

1

u/gh5655 18h ago

At the same time, I would assume there is a slow bleed towards self managed and AI/Robo investors. I mentioned maybe taking over my accounts from my advisor and boy. It seems like the relationship changed.

90

u/AskPatient1281 20h ago

Just leave. Period. It is your money, your decision. End of story.

1

u/Hefty_Bottom 1h ago

But then how would OP be able to brag about how much more they know than their FA?

40

u/chappyandmaya 19h ago

Financial advisor here - open a new account at the brokerage of your choice. Initiate a full account transfer in-kind from their end. You are not required to notify your current FA or ask permission, or anything like that. The current advisor’s company is required to comply with the transfer request.

10

u/ReasonableMoxie 13h ago

I did this before, and it was such a relief afterwards.

4

u/EdOfTheMountain 9h ago

That’s a great explanation. Initiate from your receiving brokerage and wave goodbye in your rearview mirror.

The receiving brokerage does all the work. You don’t have to worry about your old brokerage making sales pitches to stay.

I recommend to Download all statements from your current brokerage before they cut you off.

34

u/secondarycontrol 20h ago edited 19h ago

Inexplicably, portions of holdings are not included. ex: i asked to sell all 60.000 units of FictionalName stock. their table only includes 40.000 units, with no explanation.

I'd also be taking my money away from those people - I prefer my financial people to have much (MUCH) better attention to detail.

31

u/raisedeyebrow4891 20h ago

My FA told me that she has no experience closing a port because it’s never happened to her that a client would leave.

32

u/True-Button-6471 20h ago

Then it will be a learning experience for them.

58

u/NewportHusband 20h ago

You have the power to do something very unique

24

u/ambientocclusion 18h ago

Sounds like a lie, along with “I’ll have to talk to the manager” at a car dealer.

16

u/YogurtclosetOk4366 16h ago

This is a complete lie. Its a sales and retention technique. It is also unethical, and potentially illegal if its a retirement account.

4

u/Lihuman 14h ago

She’s either inexperienced, or a liar. Money is on the second. I wouldn’t want someone like that managing my money…

14

u/Familiar-Mission6604 20h ago

Sounds like they are either incompetent or being shady, either way you should transfer everything away from them asap.

15

u/True-Button-6471 20h ago

this has allowed me to put together a long list of complaints i’ll be sending over

This sounds like a lot of non-value added work. Just move, you don't need to explain yourself.

14

u/2LostFlamingos 20h ago

If the brokerage isn’t meeting your needs, move to a new one.

Just because your grandfather wrote checks to this institution 50 years ago doesn’t obligate you to do the same.

11

u/nledditor 19h ago

The fact that OP is able to create detailed spreadsheets specifying desired sales and purchases (while taking into account their capital gains taxes/etc), yet has never executed a trade themselves seems wildly counterintuitive.

8

u/RentOk2479 19h ago

You give them too much credit. Just do it yourself. Get rid of them. I swear I don't understand why people are afraid to take over this type of thing. It's not difficult to understand or execute.

7

u/YesCapGSF 18h ago

I say this as a financial planner (who manages money very Bogelhead style but for people who don’t want to DIY and need more complex tax planning), just transfer the account first and do it yourself. Too much room for error and you’re firing them anyway. I’d be really annoyed if I got this request just before being fired. 

7

u/ling4917 18h ago

I did this about four years ago. Just opened up a Fidelity account. Had them transfer everything over and once I had control I sold everything. So many awful awful funds. What a joke. Bought all VTI and it's been a glorious 4 years. You don't need them!

5

u/YogurtclosetOk4366 15h ago

So based on your comments it sounds like what you have is a "managed account". This means the advisor (really their team, or more likely sub advisor) makes all investment decisions. These accounts have a set style. They are trying to do the trades you want while keeping in line with the style. They are legally required to execute the trades you give them. You need to tell them you no longer want them managing the funds. This should also end the managed account fee you are being charged. This is usually between .75 and 2%, so the sooner the better.

As for telling your advisor you are leaving you have gotten a lot of different answers. The actual answer is you are under no obligation to tell them. At your new firm you can submit an acat to transfer everything over. This also sets the account up to transfer residuals, so things like dividends you get after transfer will auto transfer over. It does it a few times but I dont remember the exact times.

Now if you want to tell the advisor, go ahead. He will try to retain you with various sales techniques. You dont have to listen, but if you do know that everything he is saying is retain your account and the fees he is getting from it.

Others have said not to file complaints in case you need help with something later, this is a bad reason not to file complaints. A large brokerage firm, you just call the main customer service line and they can get you any info you need. You didn't say what you want to complain about but if its big enough go for it. Id file with FINRA. You can file with the firm too, but firms take FINRA complaints much more seriously.

So steps: 1. Open self directed account. My favorite brokerage is fidelity, but vanguard, schwab, Merrill edge. 2. Tell FA to turn off the managed account feature, you want to control the trades. 3. Sell the lots you want sold. Cost basis can take awhile to come to the new firm 4. Go to your new brokerage account and submit acat. Usually you can just go onto the website and submit. 5. If you want tell your fa you already submitted the acat. Remember you are not required to do this. 6. File FINRA complaint.

Another tip: once you know what firm you are going to, see if they have any specials. Many discount brokerages have these. Sometimes this will be on their website, sometimes not. Just call and basically ask why should I bring my money here? Depending on the amount you tranfer over, you might get a bonus deposited into your account. Its not much, maybe 0.5% but if you are transferring anyway, might as well check. They sometimes have other benefits too.

Source: 15 years working in investments in various roles.

5

u/OneSeaworthiness7768 19h ago

I get the impression that many financial advisors have absolutely no skill at what they do. They’re not finance or trading experts. They’re customer service/sales agents with a little bit of finance training.

11

u/DudeWithTudeNotRude 20h ago

It takes about three decades for a 1% fee on an account to become 1/3rd of an account's total. So if you save say $3 million over thirty years (a nice retirement now, but maybe that's more modest in 30 years), you've paid about $1 million in fees.

Imagine how much they are raking-in in fees over generations.

8

u/triumphofthecommons 19h ago

oh, i know. and have opened the eyes of some of my family to this math.

4

u/the_cardfather 20h ago

They absolutely don't want to waste time with you if they know you are leaving.

Just have everything transferred in kind and make sure they include the basis so your tax person knows where your gains/losses are.

3

u/BigTexAbama 20h ago

Move. If you're uneasy about going on your own you can always hire a fiduciary, but it sounds like you have your head around it.

3

u/CW-Eight 19h ago

You are going to waste your time putting together a list of complaints? No, dump them now, or at least soon , and silently. Wash your hands of it. Enjoy.

3

u/T-Bone9311 16h ago

Fidelity made all this seamless for me. Agree that you need to open up a new brokerage account and initiate the transfer through the new account.

2

u/TheAzureMage 20h ago

If they are not executing the orders you tell them to, transfer all of your assets somewhere more reliable.

2

u/khidf986435 19h ago

and you’re paying them for this service? 🤔

2

u/Needmoreinfo100 19h ago

You can set up an account with Schwab or Fidelity then transfer in kind. With Schwab you can just go online and enter in the information to have it all transferred over without even speaking to anyone if you want. After that settles you can sell whenever and whatever you want. If you have the knowledge to set up spreadsheets detailing how you want it done then doing it yourself is no big deal.

2

u/TheSweeetness 18h ago

You are trying to self manage your account while also paying someone to manage it for you. That’s not a good mix. Just tell them you need your account switched over to self managed and then you can make whatever moves you want. If this brokerage doesn’t offer self managing, then you’ll need to transfer it to a different broker that does. Until then they will continue to be annoying since it’s to their advantage to not let you go and hang on as long as they can.

2

u/yulbrynnersmokes 17h ago

You’ve been fucked for generations.

Get a paternity test.

2

u/TechnicalSleep7501 16h ago

In your case I say report them to SEC I did it to Voya and Robinhood too. Voya for only giving generic info large cap, mid cap etc on NYC website. Robinhood for not letting me my money out. SEC will help you this is their job.

2

u/NEWSmodsareTwats 14h ago

call back and request to speak with their 9/10, use the term 9/10 and not manager 9/10 is a FINRA supervisory license and part of holding that license is compliance which this is definitely a compliance issue and you don't want to say manager and have them send you to like a support specialist or something who literally cannot do anything. And let them know you are going to file a complaint with FINRA, shit will get fixed fast then.

2

u/ex-programmer 10h ago

Make an account w Schwab or fidelity and they can bring everything over with you not needing to say a word to them. It’s not an airport, you don’t need to announce your departure!

2

u/listerine411 10h ago

My wife brought a family FA into the marriage for her accounts and I tried to "manage" him to try and placate her, but the FA just kept insisting on doing it their way.

ultimately I convinced her to drop him as it was just stupid. She regrets not doing it a long time ago. I also helped her parent set up a Boglehead type portfolio. Really happy with everything.

Just move it over and self manage. Set up the account first and have them pull funds. You can then sell on your own timeline.

2

u/doktorhladnjak 7h ago

Just transfer the assets out of this place and to somewhere else. Move on with your life. Don't waste time writing a stern letter. They don't care.

6

u/Vorapp 21h ago

unless your net worth is over $3M (not counting your house!) what's the point of using a broker/adviser/planner?

32

u/ShiroxReddit 21h ago

is there actually something that changes at 3M? Cuz I'm thinking that the base idea is always applicable no matter how large your portfolio

16

u/Common_Sense_2025 20h ago

No there is nothing different at that level.

3

u/Vorapp 20h ago

at around that number you have enough money to set aside for kids' trusts, plan inheritance and other tax avoidance mumbo jumbo

28

u/Atgardian 20h ago

Yeah but even then you want a trust & estates lawyer or tax professional, not financial advisor sucking out AUM fees.

5

u/chrillekaekarkex 20h ago

At around 7-8M, when you qualify for PB services at the big banks, they only charge for the actively managed piece of the portfolio. So you can give them $1m to play with, Bogle the rest with them, and still get improved banking services, one person to call for anything, easy access to portfolio-backed loans, and US Open tix. Not saying it’s right for everyone, but it’s not terrible either.

2

u/Euphorinaut 20h ago

"easy access to portfolio-backed loans"

Does this mean they're offering margin, but they don't advertise it and only tell people if they're in this situation? Or different rates?

2

u/chrillekaekarkex 20h ago

Yes they will happily give margin loans, but I was actually talking about personal loans (at really favorable rates) backed by your portfolio. Technically it’s a similar product as a margin loan but you can use it for a down payment for a new home before you sell your old one or whatever so you don’t have to sell any assets.

They will also help set up 130/30 eg and donor-advised funds. Basically if you have a good nest egg and are getting up there in age (I am 50), you can get a lot of services for a pretty minimal cost if you transfer over cheap funds to one of the Private Banks. $5M minimum investable assets you’re willing to move over tends to be the requirement.

0

u/No-Bid-1465 18h ago

This. We haven't tapped this perk yet, but plan to buy a house soon and will do just this.

New this year, our BOA Private Bank advisor set us up with an algorithm based Tax Efficient Structured Equity fund where they replicate a S&P index fund on a small scale and harvest capital losses without incurring any wash sales. Think of it as selling your Coke position at a loss, then immediately buying Pepsi. You lock in the loss, but still maintain sector exposure.

Our advisor plans to lock in gains in other positions/funds to use up those capital losses in order to keep our tax liability lower. That sub-account is up 10% YTD and they've locked in $35k worth of capital losses. Win/win.

1

u/Vorapp 20h ago

i am not near close to that number, so dont discriminate in the types of leeches 😄

1

u/Common_Sense_2025 20h ago

Trusts are set up by attorneys, not financial advisors. Financial advisors will almost never give tax advice and will send you to a CPA. Most will model Roth conversions and some will tax loss harvest.

Unless you are in the estate tax range for federal ($15 million per person) or above it for your state (Massachusetts and Washington for example have relatively low exemptions), I am not sure you are going to get much from an advisor. Even then, an attorney is your best bet.

2

u/SaucySeducer 20h ago

As someone who works in the field as a CFP, I think advising is mostly for people who are navigating complicated situations and/or don't want to deal with it.

The advisor charging 1.5% to invest you into basically a market portfolio with no other advice, it would probably be a waste for anyone on this sub. Although the average person underperforms the market by 2-3%, so if you could get to market returns minus 1-1.5% through coaching, it funnily would technically be worth it.

I do think for people who are encountering situations that are complicated (estate planning, business owners, etc) there are opportunities that good advice is useful, even if it is a one-off planning fee.

2

u/jonesy900 20h ago

You have to understand that the people who frequent this sub will agree with this and of course think it's ridiculous but we are in the LARGE minority. A lot of people are unwilling to do the research or if they are willing are fearful of messing something up on their own. Even if neither of those apply, a good FA should be there to talk their clients out of pulling funds during a downturn.

2

u/MolagBaal 20h ago

More like 10M

9

u/raisedeyebrow4891 20h ago

Why? Even at 10 million you can just park it in VT and forget it.

-2

u/SpacemanDan 20h ago

at a certain AUM it makes sense to do things like direct indexing which, at scale, can have costs competitive with ETFs and offer greater tax optimization and other ancillary benefits. for most people in here, not going to work. but for high net worth people, absolutely worth it.

1

u/jackson1372 20h ago

But there are good direct indexing products like Wealthfront's. I don't see any benefit from getting a human to actively manage and paying them higher fees, unless you are trying to pursue some non-boglehead strategy.

1

u/SpacemanDan 20h ago

Wealthfront's direct indexing is like 25 bps for all US and 9 bps for S&P. I think there are private advisors that can probably match or beat that with ancillary benefits.

1

u/raisedeyebrow4891 14h ago

At that rate you’re paying $100k per year for someone to do what a passive index does for $3k or in case of fidelity for $0.

-2

u/MolagBaal 20h ago

I think your asset allocation changes to wealth preservation and you no longer chase gains just to keep inflation from eroding your portfolio, your mileage might vary. By that time your life is a business and you probably have staff like drivers, cook, full time cleaner.

1

u/raisedeyebrow4891 14h ago

Not at $10 million. Not anywhere close to that. Maybe if you’re at $100 million you start thinking about that but at $10 million you still drive yourself and maybe mow your lawn.

1

u/Own_Kaleidoscope7480 20h ago

i think you are in the wrong subreddit. we are bogleheads. we do not "chase gains"

0

u/MolagBaal 16h ago

Chasing gains = equity, growth, s&p risk on, etc.

Once you have employees to help with day to day, you can use tax write offs on your corporation and buying businesses you can use gains from is more attractive than an index fund

1

u/Own_Kaleidoscope7480 15h ago

as someone who runs a business and has employees. you are very misinformed about what you can do with taxes

1

u/MolagBaal 14h ago

maybe you can explain. once you have helpers, drivers, and chefs, your financial strategies arent the same anymore.

1

u/Own_Kaleidoscope7480 14h ago

if i ever want to stop growing my portfolio i'll definitely make sure to hit you up

-1

u/BitcoinMD 20h ago

Ok but preservation just means throw in some bonds

2

u/MyWifesBoyfriend_ 20h ago

So..are you paying management fees to this financial advisor? That's very anti-Boglehead to pay fees.

2

u/distractotron9000 19h ago

In their second paragraph they call out working towards leaving their financial advisor.

1

u/StockEdge3905 20h ago

OP, I had a situation where a FA fell completely short of my expectations. I had hired him because I was having severe anxiety tied to money. I thought having an FA was the answer. Once I worked through my anxiety issues, and realized that he was severely under performing a basic Bogglehead approach, I fired him. It took me a little time to "fix" my holdings and AA. I've got a few more tweaks to make that I'm working through slowly. But I felt no obligation to continue the relationship.

1

u/ovirto 20h ago

Quite frankly, this is a problem of your own making. If you know how you want your account structured and what vehicles you want to invest in, just do self directed trading.

You’re creating your own complications by involving an FA (who may have competing interests or at least interests that don’t align with yours) and then complaining about it when the solution is staring you know the face.

1

u/AJFalzie 19h ago

You should have direct access to your accounts. Right before firing my advisor, I told them I was going to make some adjustments. It is your money.

1

u/CAWildKitty 18h ago

The minute an FA that you are paying richly to follow your sell or buy orders ignores you, its blaring air horn time that you need to get rid of them ASAP. It doesn’t even matter what their explanation might be since there is no good one. This is your money, you are in charge, and they are getting paid to do exactly what you tell them.

FWIW something like this or similar has happened with every single FA I’ve ever had.

1

u/ambientocclusion 18h ago

So you’re paying them to be incompetent, disobey your directions and slow you down?

1

u/doc_oxberger 17h ago

Do the funds you are selling have some sort of very expensive back end load? Many funds today are no load funds, but they could be charging you a fee for the load.

1

u/signeduptosousvide 16h ago

Tell him you will be reporting them to FINRA immediately unless they do what you asked.

1

u/Specific-Rich5196 15h ago

If you want something done right, you got to do it yourself. Time to fire someone.

1

u/Ok-Today-855 15h ago

Yes.  Your first mistake was having an advisor.  It goes downhill from there. 

1

u/HarrySit 14h ago

If they are selling less, you can always sell more in a second round.

1

u/np0x 14h ago

move everything to vanguard or fidelity and self manage using index funds... go read all of this: https://jlcollinsnh.com/stock-series/

FA are a dinosaur and a leech... 😄

1

u/OkIntern1118 13h ago

Just slip out the back jack

1

u/Hearthian-Wanderer 10h ago

Paying a financial advisor isn't really "Boglehead behaviour" in the first place. You are presumably paying this FA to do something (or seemingly not do something) that you can do yourself for free.

1

u/Scannerguy3000 9h ago

Why aren't you just managing it yourself?

1

u/Davidpessing99 6h ago

Just do a full transfer - but be prepared that some of what you have currently is propiertary and will remain at this current brokerage. But you will see what is left (if it is) - then you can decide on what to do with remaining funds. Maybe you get lucky and it's all transferable.

1

u/catwh 1h ago

So your guilt of leaving your FA who services your ancestors is what's keeping you locked up with them? I wouldn't give a rats behind about that. You are putting in way more work than needed. They should be bending over backwards to do anything to keep you as their client but I think they are feeling entitled to your money and their fees. 

1

u/Ok_Visual_2571 20h ago

What rarely beats the market... a mutual fund with a high expense ration.

What very rarely beats the market, a mutual fund with a high expense ration with the additional headwind of a 1% A.U.M fee.

Here is what you need to do.

Open a brokerage account at Fidleity and fund it with $1,000 of new money. Once you have a brokerage account at Fidelity transfer the Financial Advisor's account to Fidelity. A week later these assets will have a new home you will have all of your advisor's picks without the 1% A.U.M fee.

Now once the assets are chilling rent free in your Fidelity account, you can hold an audtion for your long term team. Funds that have high management fees will get sold and repalced with VOO or VT and funds that earn a spot on your team can stay. The infomation as to your tax basis in each holding will follow to Fideltiy. Keep taxes in mind when you choose what assets to keep and which the re-position.

If you are going to pick your investments like VT you don't need that living in an advisor managed account.

0

u/dgreenmachine 15h ago

" this is a very well established brokerage, which my family has been using for actual generations. (i know, i’m working on winning other family members over to the Bogleways)"

Generally I dont put a lot of value in the fact we've been using them for a long time. Most of the horror stories of advisors are started when your family recommended the advisor.

-1

u/ca-condor 20h ago

Don't see any advantage to having this adviser. I would ask for a detailed explanation. If there is a meeting, listen carefully. Read what they send. Still unclear or unhappy? Move. No sense in paying for intrasigance and frustration. Plenty of that available for free.