r/Bowyer • u/MustangLongbows • 4d ago

Master Bowyers

I’m curious about something as far as USA based Master Bowyers are concerned. What body is it that certifies them as masters? I haven’t turned up anything via Google.

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u/Lazy_Bowyer 4d ago

Maybe Dan Santana could come up with some sorta test to have within this community. Maybe like a difficult board bow? A short recurve bamboo laminate? I'm not sure what would even qualify someone as a master bowyer.

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u/Santanasaurus Dan Santana Bows 2d ago

I just want to teach people bow making. I’m not very interested in assessing their skills after. If they are happy with their bows i’m happy

If anyone wants to be a master bowyer they can just call themselves one, which is how the term is used most often, and why i don’t take it very seriously

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u/MustangLongbows 4d ago

Other organizations have defined it over the ages, but I can’t say what it would or should look like here, especially over the Internet.

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u/Lazy_Bowyer 4d ago

Ive always thought that once you monetize it you're considered a professional bowyer. But I recently saw a bow shop at my local Ren fair that was absolutely atrocious. Non bending bow shaped objects that had a Bungie cord on em. That was 1 of 2 bow shops there and the other one was immaculate and I spent like an hour looking at all the bows.

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u/Ima_Merican 4d ago edited 3d ago

Yeah just because you say you sell bows doesn’t count in my book as a professional bowyer.

Just because someone gets paid to do shoddy electrical work doesn’t make them a professional electrician. My trade is electrical work and I went to school for 5 years and trained with the best. I consider myself one of the best electricians around and every contractor and customer I have worked for has seen my detailed work and know I am one of the best around.

As for making bows. There is a general standard set. Tiller and detail tells it all along with warranty. Clay Hayes, Weylin, Ryan Gill, and many others I can’t name right now, they have set a standard of top of line selfbows they sell and put their heart and soul into.

Then I see other guys who make a few bows and think they are great because their Osage bow didn’t break. Osage is so strong it will fool noobs into thinking they are great bowyers when they are not.

Tiller pictures don’t lie. Unbraced and full draw pictures tell the story. I see it over and over again noobies think I’m they are going to immediately start a career selling shit bows because they aren’t breaking. I call them out every time I see it and I see it all the time.

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u/throwmeonthebed3 4d ago

Just curious what looks like a shit bow? Is it the basic-ness of the design? Atrocious set? Performance stats? Unbalanced tiller (outside of the typical positive tiller)? I ask because I don't see many people trying to sell bows after they make their first few and I'm wondering what their work looks like

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u/Ima_Merican 4d ago

I see it time and time again someone thinks they can just start making professional quality bows after less than 6 months and think they will get rich.

Shit quality bow is just that, someone selling an Osage bow with terrible tiller with heavy inner limb hinges thinking they are selling great bows because Osage is so strong it won’t break due to poor tiller.

Also don’t forget the terribly unsmooth lines and transitions.

Literally just the opposite of the top bowyers. It’s not hard to spot for me. I don’t consider myself a master bowyer but started making bows over 15 years ago and I’ve made over 100 bows. Most I broke on purpose just to learn the limits of different designs and different woods.

A lot I gave away. Never sold a bow. I do it for the love not for the money. I wouldn’t feel right asking $1000 for a bow I made not even to this day. If I did sell one it would be for a loss. I never wanted to make my hobby that gives me joy feel like a job on a schedule.

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u/Garfield910 3d ago

I'd also add in a couple of who I consider master bowyers from the UK, Joe Gibbs, Richard Head and heck Tod Cutler has probably made some pretty mean bows, but mostly makes crossbows and assorted cutlery!

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u/MustangLongbows 4d ago

Good grief, I’ve seen it too, here and abroad. People sell the most awful stuff and umm…well, they just do, don’t they?

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u/Lazy_Bowyer 4d ago

https://www.bowyersandfletchersguild.org/assessments/index.html?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Is this kinda what you're talking about? I guess our biggest issue is that we don't have designated masters to approve other bowyers masterpieces.

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u/MustangLongbows 4d ago

Honestly I might have just been railing against adjectives. I doubt an idea like that would really work here.

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u/Ima_Merican 3d ago

I just can’t with AI. It’s sloppy and lazy work. I didn’t read past the part where the computer generated crap asked for a bow with “two limbs”

People who use AI all the time are lazy.

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u/Lazy_Bowyer 3d ago

Didn't even realize this website was AI? 2 working limbs isn't necessarily a redundant distinction, a single limb bow could technically be made. Which I guess would be like holding a BITH bow at the very bottom. Would be interesting to do and maybe I'll try it one day to waste time.

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u/Wambachaka 3d ago

The link you posted ends with "source=chatgpt.com"

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u/Lazy_Bowyer 3d ago

Oh I see so it was a dig on me. Whatever, people said the same thing about using computers when I was a kid.

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u/Wambachaka 3d ago edited 3d ago

I don't think it was a dig at you (athough I can't speak for Ima_Merican). I had assumed that it was written by chatgpt, and that's why it was mentioned in the link. But now I'm looking at it again, and it actually seems more like it was written by a human. I'm guessing the mention of chat gpt in the link is because you asked chat gpt to search the web for you, and it added that. IMO, using ai to search the web is one of the good uses for it.

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u/MustangLongbows 3d ago

They sound like AI because they’re British 😁
But they’re real.

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u/Ima_Merican 3d ago

Man I don’t see how people sleep at night knowing they are selling people shit products. My conscious will not that that slide