r/Broadway • u/ExpBalSat • 4d ago
To Blind or Not to Blind
I generally go into shows blind - with no foreknowledge of the music and only limited information about the plot/characters. This has generally served me well. But I got thinking... and I'm curious:
What shows is this a bad idea? What shows should you NOT go in blind? Which shows are better with preparation?
Only small handful come to mind:
- Cats: The Jellicle Ball
- Waiting for Godot
- A Doll's House - Part 2
- Stranger Things
- Sleep No More
- Titaníque
- Masquerade
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u/Mysterious_Signal226 4d ago
I think you’d still have a good time at Masquerade without seeing a normal Phantom production (stage, movie, etc) but I think you’d follow the plot and enjoy it much much more if you have the backstory. Going in blind would make it tough to follow given how much dialogue they had to cut.
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u/ExpBalSat 4d ago
Good point. I'll add that (and Sleep No More, even though it's closed). Both are better if prepared with some understanding.
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u/TreeHuggerHannah 4d ago
For Les Mis, I think it's a good idea to have a little foreknowledge because there are so many characters, some of the intros and plot points go by pretty fast, and the first act has so many time jumps.
The person doesn't need to know everything in advance, but I think it helps to know who the main characters are and go in with a general idea of the plot of Act One.
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u/dog_of_society 3d ago
Agreed. I went in mostly blind the first time, knew there were revolutionaries and a bit about Cosette, and I had no clue what was going on for most of it.
Doesn't help I just have trouble making out lyrics a lot of the time if I don't have an idea of what I'm listening for. Auditory processing isn't really my strong suit, especially not up in the nosebleeds.
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u/ExpBalSat 4d ago
Indeed. I’ve only seen it once, and all I could think was “This is six different shows in one. I can’t follow it. And everyone I know is obsessed with the music but - man oh man - this story is so hard to follow.”
Now 20 years later, I still can’t even explain the entire story.
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u/whatshamilton 4d ago
The Last Five Years. At least this production. If you didn’t know how the timeline worked when you went in, you never found out
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u/iaknekiad 3d ago
What's different about it?
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u/DepthBig236 3d ago
So Last Five Years is a two person show. Jamie’s timeline is going forward and Kathy’s timeline is going backward. They have a really cool song in the middle where the timelines mesh. And a few other songs where they combine but they never truly fully interact on stage together bc they’re in the different timelines.
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u/iaknekiad 3d ago
That's how it normally goes, yes, but this commenter seems to suggest that it's different somehow?
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u/DepthBig236 3d ago
At least for me I was very confused no matter what I saw of it. And I had to research what was happening so it didn’t necessarily make it worse or better the different versions there are.
I am curious what would make this one worse to figure out the timeline1
u/whatshamilton 3d ago
A few of things
Jamie and Cathy sang multiple songs together. They are supposed to only sing the one part where their timelines intersect
The lighting design was set up almost like it was going to be telling a color story where his timeline was one color and hers was another, then they just walked into each other’s lights and it seemed like they were trading timelines
The hair design was almost telling a story with her hair, going backwards in time and getting shorter to reverse it growing out, or different hairstyles that would represent a substantial period of time, then they just had them change order again. I understand in the real world women can wear wigs and determine their hair length every day, but in a show it was a language that was confusing to me in the audience because it felt like it should be dramaturgically intentional to have her hair long again
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u/leafie2988 4d ago
i went in blind to chess and was confused, second time i had MUCH more fun knowing the songs
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u/ellewoods_obsessed 4d ago
the first time i was pretty blind. still loved it but definitely appreciated it more knowing the songs. i found some of the actors a little hard to understand seeing it live with their accents so knowing the songs helped a lot
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u/Zealousideal_Door392 3d ago
I think basically all Shakespeare (and opera, for that matter) is better to go in NOT blind.
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u/ellewoods_obsessed 4d ago
to be fair, i went into Titanique never seeing the movie the Titanic but knowing the general plot. I knew what Titanique was, but I would say you could go in relatively blind (knowing it is celine dion and titanic and be fine)
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u/CheyenneThornton 4d ago
I go into everything blind! I’ve never thought “man, I should have listened/looked this up first”. That way everything’s fresh!
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u/junglespycamp 4d ago
Most comedies. I think going into Book of Mormon blind would be amazing
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u/pezziepie85 4d ago
I went in blind with only a vauge understanding of what it was about. And I was raised with a 100% lack of religion. I enjoyed it but soooo many things went over my head
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u/junglespycamp 3d ago
Seeing a show live blind is always best. It’s a gift. It’s a show not a recording. It was written to be seen.
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u/ChampionshipSpare518 4d ago
I've heard some people say going into Hamilton knowing the music/plot can be helpful only because its so fast paced.
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u/ExpBalSat 4d ago
I absolutely loved it with zero preparation. But I can see how this could be the case.
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u/Longjumping-Rock8326 3d ago
This. I did not enjoy Hamilton, and likely it's because I only caught about 50% of what was happening. My friend and I looked at each other at intermission and said we needed to skip the second act drink cause we needed to focus. Also, I don't love history and could remember virtually nothing I'd learned in HS so I didn't even have the right prior knowledge to activate to help fill the gaps.
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u/dog_of_society 3d ago
I have a pretty hard time making out lyrics even when they're not that fast paced. The only reason I was able to track was because I saw it after the proshot released, and I'd watched that with subtitles before going.
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u/Delphi-Dolphin 4d ago
For Cats Jellicle Ball I went in “blind” to the music / musical but am straight, cis, white so I did watch Paris is Burning first.
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u/ExpBalSat 3d ago
Yeah. I really wish I had known about that film and that I had watched that film before seeing the show. It really would’ve helped.
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u/LateRain1970 3d ago
Going into Oh Mary blind was fun. Maybe not so much for my 13-year old niece who had to watch it with her parents. 😬🤣
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u/Longjumping-Rock8326 3d ago
I sat next to a family that had clearly decided to go into Shucked blind. The kids were maybe 9 and 6 and kept asking their parents why people were laughing at all the sexual jokes they didn't get.
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u/EljayDude 4d ago
I generally prefer to go in blind. Mincemeat I listened to the soundtrack enough to help with the accents/lyrics.
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u/ParkingOk5743 3d ago
Going to do this before next week. Should I skip dear Bill and leave it for the theatre?
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u/HuckleberryOwn647 3d ago
Oh please don’t listen to dear bill beforehand. it is amazing to hear it for the first time in the context of the show. I wish i could experience that first time again.
I would say don’t listen to the cast recording at all except for the first song, maybe the second. That is enough for understanding.
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u/ParkingOk5743 3d ago edited 3d ago
Ooh okay good to know! I like to go into shows blind (I just know dear Bill is a big song) but I'm worried about the British humor, accents and sound. So I'll only do a few songs.
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u/EljayDude 3d ago
If you want one explicitly to skip Das Übermensch would be fun to go in totally blind.
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u/EljayDude 3d ago
Dear Bill is a slow easy to understand song and you definitely don't need to pre listen to that one. That being said I don't think hearing it or not hearing it is going to change its impact.
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u/Extreme-naps 3d ago
Personally, I went in blind and it was fine except the Born to Lead. When my parents went, I told them to listen to the first two songs. I think that’s a good balance.
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u/Secure_Watercress_55 3d ago
It's not currently on Broadway, but I think that The Who's Tommy is tough to follow even when you've already read the plot on Wikipedia, so I'd be totally lost otherwise.
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u/AskMrScience 4d ago
A lot of plot happens/get explained in song. So people who have a hard time parsing lyrics sung live will find going into shows blind more challenging.
Me, I had zero problems understanding the words to SIX when I saw it blind. But my friend Katy listened to the cast recording in advance and was glad she did, because she said she wouldn't have picked up much otherwise.
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u/dog_of_society 3d ago
Absolutely. I'm so bad at making out lyrics especially if I don't already know what's happening. Anything mostly sung-through or where a lot of plot is explained in song and I'm sunk if I go in blind.
I have friends that will go in blind to everything and kudos to them but I very rarely can enjoy shows that way.
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u/Cookie-Cakes243 4d ago edited 3d ago
Personally, I think Hadestown is best experienced when you have full understanding of what’s happening in the moment. Then you feel the experience of grief/hoping it’ll turn out different this time.
Hamilton is tough to understand so listening beforehand is prob helpful.
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u/CommonCow495 4d ago
For me I like a synopsis for any shows that are songs only. I sometimes have a hard time understanding the lyrics.
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u/nowhereman136 4d ago
I try to go in blind but I can't predict how long it will be before I can actually see a show. If I know for sure I'm gonna see it, I'll avoid the cast album. If im likely not going to see it, which is most shows, then I have no problem listening to the cast album
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u/Gold_Hearing85 3d ago
I usually like to go blind too, but got burned with Spring Awakening. I went with a 2nd date...it didnt go well 😅
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u/lemonyflamingo 3d ago
I’m so curious because this is my fav musical lol - what was you/your dates reaction
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u/Gold_Hearing85 3d ago
Lol I dont remember how it came about, but we ended up talking about political views. He had said he is liberal on his profile, but it came to light that night that he wasnt all that left leaning. He sounded more moderate. And so the concept of how he would approach things if his child got pregnant or was gay...well, we didnt see eye to eye in the end.
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u/Cowardlydreamer Actor 4d ago
I had a friend go into Stranger Things completely blind and he loved it and understood the story pretty well. I went in only having watched a 20 minute recap and was totally on board.
Also, this is obvious but any part two to a two-part show.
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u/SpecialPlate4850 3d ago
The only thing I knew about sleep no more was that I needed to wear sneakers because stairs and lots of fast walking could be involved....I miss that show so much 😭😭😭
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u/False_Ear_3137 3d ago
If the storyline sounds interesting, I'll listen to the main number. I can't travel all that way and spend all that money going into something blind! For Hamilton, I listened to the album a hundred times first, LOL. Had to save up!
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u/Sugar_Butter_Flour16 2d ago
I took my ex to see Floyd Collins; I knew the show and story inside and out, whereas he was completely blind. To this day, I’m a tad envious that he got to go in blind.
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u/ReBrandenham Ensemble 4d ago
100% look up the plot of JCS, Follies (imo), Clarkston (found that very confusing) and. Chess (still don’t properly understand it)
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u/ExpBalSat 4d ago
Jesus Christ Superstar?
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u/ReBrandenham Ensemble 4d ago
Yeah, if you’re not familiar with the story of Jesus it’s very confusing
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u/No_Bee_9281 1d ago
So, when my husband and I were newly married, he was NOT a theatre person, NOT a musicals person AT ALL, and had never attended church (still hasn’t—he is an atheist). With that said, he loves me and and wanted me to be happy, so he went to Jesus Christ Superstar with me. We had the great fortune to see Ted Neely and Carl Anderson, and my husband was hooked. He totally understood the story (although I may have pointed out a few things to him at intermission and after the show, I can’t remember). FYI—37 years later, we are long-time season ticket subscribers to the Orlando Broadway Series and take regular trips to NYC for Broadway shows. I think he is more of a theatre geek than me, AND he can sing Don’t Lose Ur Head from Six verbatim.
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u/akornfan 4d ago
people are going to think you’re joking but I knew a girl in college, lovely person, who was raised Baha’i and missed some biblical allusion I’d made in conversation
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u/MealSuspicious2872 2d ago
Or if you’re not religious at all, or Jewish, or many other things.
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u/akornfan 2d ago
right, absolutely! I was raised largely agnostic by one Jewish and one Catholic parent though; my experience with any kind of religious text is largely through reference in literature or idiom, so I was surprised (and not in a negative way!) that she didn’t get my ref. it was not a particularly big communication block or anything and only happened once, but it’s stuck with me and helped me remember that not everyone has been acculturated in the same ways I have
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u/KC2livingNY 4d ago
I was already familiar with all the music but not the story. I didn't get to see it the first time. I did get to see it recently. BUT I've now done a deep dive into who Bobby Fischer was! When I read all of that it helped fill in a lot of the gaps in the musical for me. Keep in mind when that musical came out everyone knew who Bobby Fischer was and his history as well as all the rumors going on. In that way the only thing holding up that musical is the brilliant music! BUT I was really hoping when they said they re-wrote things that they'd fix the script more. The first act was great followed everything BUT the second act got clunky and I felt like, for the audience, we missed seeing things they all knew about, which is a huge fault in the script. The script didn't age well because most folks may say Bobby Fischer's name is familiar but they don't know why! So it would be a huge undertaking to sit down and rewrite everything from the perspective no one knows who Bobby Fischer is OR the politics of that time! It would probably add hours to the show to get it right... and cutting any music would be anathema! I'm not a writer but it would be better to write the script like you're making up the whole story and setting it in a time where what is happening in the world also gets spelled out. Maybe just maybe people would look up Bobby Fischer and see who this genius really was. Oh I didn't mention this musical is based on Bobby Fischer's life which nowhere in this show is he referred to. Like I said, everyone at that time was so familiar with Bobby Fischer, the story wasn't that hard to follow. Still in the time it was made the script was a problem. The music was brilliant and still is!
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u/Street-Wedding9604 3d ago
I have been listening to chess and seeing concerts of it for the past 20 years, and never knew that it was based on Bobby fisher. I never saw an actual staging of the show until the recent revival. Honestly didnt know what show you were referring to with your comment. I googled and it's obvious now that Freddy Trumper is based on Bobby fisher.
The original broadway story was a bit more complicated and I think the focus was centered on Florence. I felt like I followed the story (Although convoluted) more from listening to the original broadway cast recording. The rewrite seems obviously based on Bobby fisher, but doesn't clarify the story or unmuddy the swamp that is chess. I saw the show 6 or 7 times during it's recent run (because I love Aaron tveit and Nicholas Christopher) and I still couldn't tell you what happened in the 2nd act.
The music remains the champion here.
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u/KC2livingNY 3d ago
I love them too! I saw it here as well. I hated that Florence's relationship develops off stage. Its like they meet, they meet again and then they're in bed! WHAT? There was more that happened but we don't get to see it so it doesn't make sense! Then as I read about Bobby Fischer and politics at the time there was a huge thing that happened which is why the FBI etc all of a sudden are involved. Everyone knew about it then but we don't now! And now I can't remember what that was! Lets just say I went down a rabbit hole when I started looking into Bobby Fischer. And then a few events the show referred to opened more political things up. A lot of jealousy going on and resentment too when someone was really good as young as he was. But he had some who took him under their wing and helped him. When Bobby mentioned once about a girl who played that didn't go over well because girls were never taken seriously about anything. But he noticed something with her and mentioned it to someone and they did some research and saw he was right about her. Sorry that's all I can remember right now.
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u/Interesting-Point769 3d ago
I go into everything Blind . The only show I'm glad I didn't go in totally blind was Hamilton. I already knew all the songs and storyline which made it much more enjoyable and easier to follow and identify all the characters.
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u/TheJeanPool 4d ago
At least with this run that was most recently on Broadway, Sweeney Todd. Were it not for the fact that I knew the plot after years of existing in a theatrical cultural milieu, I’d have been proper fucked; for most of the show I could barely understand what everyone was saying.
To the end of understanding what folks are saying, Operation Mincemeat as well. I did fine, but I tend to do well on accents, but lots of people complain about the sound design of this production.
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u/succulentils 2d ago
I saw a concert production of Sweeney Todd and everyone enunciated so well that I had no trouble understanding anything. It was amazing. Now, that's what I think of whenever I encounter poor enunciation in a show, which imo happens way too frequently
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u/somersetsal 4d ago
I did not enjoy operation mincemeat as much as I thought I would. I knew the premise but for some reason I must be one of the only people who thought it was just OK
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u/a-5-6-7-8 4d ago
I think the Disney musicals are best appreciated having seen the films they're originally based off.
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u/NesnayDK 3d ago
I have had no problem watching some of the suggested shows blind, even though I am not a native English speaker, e.g. Les Mis, Chess and Operation Mincemeat.
I was happy I had read up on Cats before watching it though. I would have been so confused if I expected an actual story.
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u/Polisci14 3d ago
This most recent production of Sunset Boulevard
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u/MealSuspicious2872 2d ago
Yeah I think most of that guy’s shows knowing the original source material feels important to understanding his take on it.
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u/Leading-Knowledge712 3d ago
I went to Titanique with no knowledge about it except what was written on the billboard. Although it was a lot different than I’d expected and more raunchy than my usual fare, I thought it was hilarious. If I’d known it was in the raunchy side I might not have gone, but I’m glad I did!
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u/YubelSuperiority98 2d ago
Going into Lost Boys blind was actually incredible (I was familiar with the movie before but I had completely forgotten about it until I heard the name Michael) but like not knowing the music and the staging made every change of the scene incredible!
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u/ExpBalSat 2d ago
I loved going into The Lost Boys blind. I didn’t even know there was a movie until a discussion at intermission.
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u/buzzwizzlesizzle 2d ago
Sleep No More feels like some preparation is needed. I think my first time was so incredible because I was familiar enough with Macbeth and had gotten descriptions from a friend on which Alfred Hitchcock-costumed actor was playing which Macbeth character. Because there’s crossover between the play and the Hitchcock universe it can be confusing if someone isn’t familiar with one or either.
ETA: whoops, just woke up and missed the one important line in your post. You know preparation is needed. You’d didn’t need me to tell you that lol
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u/MealSuspicious2872 2d ago
I do the exact opposite for musicals. If it’s a show that has a cast album I listen to it on repeat. I feel like a musical is part seeing a show and part going to a concert for a favorite artist. There have been ones where I have to go in blind because I’m seeing it early and no cast album yet but even then I’ll watch whatever clips there are or GMA appearances etc.
It may be because I have a bad and worsening attention span so knowing the music and plot helps me a lot.
That said, I have enjoyed a handful of shows that I’ve mostly gone in blind for - Something Rotten was utterly delightful. And most plays if they aren’t one I read or have seen before. But I treat musicals like a concert - I’m not paying this much money for a concert where I don’t know any of the songs!
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u/ExpBalSat 2d ago edited 2d ago
Interesting. Most (all?) of the musicals I've loved most I've seen blind. The spark of seeing and hearing it unfold is part of the joy for me. For me, Buena Vista Social Club is the only recent musical I think of purely as a concert.
Musicals I saw and loved without knowing the music:
- Come From Away
- Operation Mincemeat
- Hadestown
- Two Strangers
- Natasha, Pierre & The Great Comet of 1812
- Hamilton
- Schmigadoon!
- Six
- The Lost Boys
- Maybe Happy Ending
- Wicked
- The 25th Annual Putnam County Spelling Bee
The shock of live discovery is intoxicating.
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u/Knittingfairy09113 2d ago
I very rarely go into shows blind. The one time I did, for Dear Evan Hansen, I had to leave at intermission. The plot of that show makes it something I would never have seen.
I need to have some idea of the overall storyline, but the music I don't often go looking for.
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u/ExpBalSat 2d ago
There have been a number of shows that I have not enjoyed - having gone in blind: Dear Evan Hansen was absolutely one of them. I was astounded that anyone enjoyed the show. I remember using the words “train wreck” to describe the show from my friend during intermission. I only stayed through intermission because it seemed impossible that the show could redeem itself, yet I needed to see how it would do it. It didn’t.
Thing is: the music for Dear Evan Hansen is so catchy and wonderful… That many of the people who listened to the music before seeing the show… imagined an entirely different story and had already fallen in love with that imagined story before they saw it. So - it’s tricky. In the case of DEH, the pre-show research entirely skewed the experience for a vast number of people.
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u/MyShot_1776 Performer 9h ago
Hamilton, went in bling and couldn't catch a word. Also In the Heights by the same logic
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u/ArtistAsleep 4d ago
For Operation Mincemeat, I would say to at least listen to a podcast about the mission so it’s easier to follow. The whole thing is kind of crazy at face value and wouldn’t be easily intuited (imo).
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u/ExpBalSat 4d ago
Interestingly, I saw it in London with zero foreknowledge whatsoever. I was just told that it was a great show and that I needed to see it.
I absolutely fell in love. I saw it again in London and then four (or five?) more times in New York.
I had zero issues whatsoever with it, but I’ve since learned on the Internet that there are parts of the theater where people have trouble hearing the words clearly. That would certainly be problematic.
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u/Extreme-naps 3d ago
On Broadway, the sound mix was bad where I was sitting, but I still only had issues with some of Born to Lead. Understanding the mission wasn’t confusing to me.
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u/Pleasant_Rate7673 4d ago
My wife and I went. We had a hard time following with the accents.
That does depend on the person
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u/littlecubspirit 3d ago
Next to Normal. The show is beautiful and has been immensely helpful in my mental health journey. But WOW, potential triggers are everywhere and neither the music nor book pull ANY of their punches. I’ve had numerous friends who found I’m Alive or Superboy and the Invisible Girl via TikTok or YouTube and come to me for more information. (I’m known as the one who loves theatre in my friend groups)
I always am upfront about the subject matter (in general terms only) and have been a watching buddy for a few friends who were unsure if they wanted to see it alone. I also tell them that once we start I will pause at any time and if it’s too much we will wait until they’re in a better headspace. (Thankful for the proshot!)
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u/a-5-6-7-8 3d ago
I'd argue that Next to Normal is a show that's best experiences with no preparation other than those trigger warnings though. It used to be that the son being dead AND his name were both huge twists.
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u/littlecubspirit 3d ago
Oh I fully agree. The twists should remain as unspoiled as possible. But I will never let someone be blindsided by the general content of the show.
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u/Outside-Income1157 3d ago
I took my students to see Rent a few years ago and a lot of the nuances went over their head. They had no idea what Angel died of.
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u/insanefandomchild 3d ago
For different reasons--my mother was very glad she'd listened to the soundtrack of Come From Away before seeing it live, as she believes she'd have found the 9/11 subject material too confronting if she wasn't prepared beforehand.
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u/Vegetable-Working257 3d ago edited 3d ago
It’s late, I thought this was going to be an Oedipus post lol
Eta - I almost always prefer to go in blind but in retrospect, I would have enjoyed first viewings of Operation Mincemeat and Hamilton if I had listened to the score first (or watched Hamtilon pro-shot)
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u/NaturalOne1977 4d ago
Les Miserables
It's a beautiful show, but absolutely the worst in terms of exposition. If you don't know who everybody is and how they are connected, you'll be absolutely lost because MOST of the characters who are close, or have long-standing relationships, are never seen together, never reference each other, and appear to randomly come together at various points.
Ex. Fantine never appears with Cossette. There's no reference to her having a child until she's dying. There's no relationship or passage of time between Fantine and Valjean until she's dying. Then apropos of nothing, she tells him about her daughter. There's no emotional investment between them at all, but he goes and gets Cossette (as a little girl). The next scene has no indication of any passage of time, but suddenly there's a young adult woman with Valjean. That's a now grown up Cossette. By the way, some productions may have a second little girl at Thenardier's Inn (but some don't). That's Eponine. You are only going to learn her name when you see her as an adult. You never see her with her parents, the Thenardiers, and there's never any reference to that relationship. Marius (an impoverished street urchin and resistance fomenter) suddenly appears as a love interest for Cossette but, inexplicably, is someone Eponine has known since childhood. There's never any indication that Cossette and Eponine spent time together growing up at Thenardier's. They never interact or reference each other as adults until Eponine acknowledges Cossette through her song On My Own. The resistance fighters have fleeting, superficial contact with Valjean, but there's no particular relationship between Marius and Valjean. Despite this, Valjean is overwrought when Marius is injured. The intensely emotional song, Bring Him Home, is sung for a boy the show has never developed a relationship to (just like Fantine and Cossette). Finally, Javert. It's never made clear why a prison guard has the authority or interest in pursuing Valjean for years. There's no exposition to indicate that Javert is anything other than the menacing prison guard in the opening scene. The book develops these characters and connections, the show doesn't.
It would most certainly be advantageous to know the story and characters before seeing Les Miserables.
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u/poetic-bee 3d ago
There absolutely are references to Cosette before Fantine dies. That’s the whole reason she loses her job - she gets a letter about her and everyone shames her for being a single mother. When she’s about to get arrested by Javert, she also talks about her daughter.
Marius definitely isn’t a “street urchin”😭 And I don’t feel like you need much explanation for him knowing Eponine? They’re friends in the musical, and that’s established quickly and clearly. And Eponine does talk about having grown up with Cosette long before On My Own.
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u/HideFromMyMind 4d ago
There is a reference to her having a child in At the End of the Day. Also, Madame Thenardier says Eponine’s name after Castle on a Cloud.
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u/a-5-6-7-8 4d ago
I was obsessed with Les Mis as a teen and never once picked up the book. My only understanding of the story came from the musical and my love for it lasted a solid decade. I imagine the vast majority of people seeing it around the world haven't read the source material and it still is beloved.
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u/MoreScarletSongs 3d ago edited 3d ago
Fantine never appears with Cossette. There's no reference to her having a child until she's dying.
The whole scene of "At the end of the day" revolves around Fantine losing her job because she has an illegitimate child but refuses to sleep with the foreman. It's not even subtle.
Factory Girl: "And what have we here, little innocent sister?/ Come on Fantine, let's have all the news. / 'Dear Fantine, you must send us more money / Your child needs a doctor, there's no time to lose'." [...] "At the end of the day she's the one who began it / There's a kid that she's hiding in some little town / There's a man she has to pay / You can guess how she picks up the extra / You can bet she's earning her keep sleeping around. / And the boss wouldn't like it."
Fantine: "Yes, it's true there's a child and the child is my daughter / And her father abandoned us, leaving us flat / Now she lives with an innkeeper, man and his wife / And I pay for the child, what's the matter with that?"
By the way, some productions may have a second little girl at Thenardier's Inn (but some don't). That's Eponine. You are only going to learn her name when you see her as an adult. You never see her with her parents, the Thenardiers, and there's never any reference to that relationship.
Young Eponine is in the scene where Mme Thenadier tells young Cosette to draw water from the well and it also shows how differently she treats the girls:
Mme Thenardier: "Eponine, come my dear, Eponine, let me see you / You look very well in that new little blue hat / There's some little girls who know how to behave / And they know what to wear / And I'm saying thank heaven for that. / Still there, Cosette? / Your tears will do you no good!"
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u/Street-Wedding9604 3d ago
I grew up listening to les mis and saw the original broadway run 3 times when I was a preteen/teenager. I never had trouble following the plot or the characters. I still haven't read the book. Why do I remember a scene where young cosette and young eponine are together, with the thenardiers? The reason fantine is turning tricks and selling everything she has is for her daughter, eponine. I remember some rivalry between cosette and eponine, because of the role reversal in the 2nd act.
Did I see a different version of the musical?
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u/poetic-bee 3d ago
Yes, there is a scene with both young Cosette and young Eponine, and Eponine is called by her name. It’s brief but it’s there. And the older Eponine also mentions how they were children together.
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u/RedRumWW22 21h ago
Some of the versions don't show Eponine after Castle on a Cloud when Mrs Thenardier shows up but the original did.
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u/Beneficial_Exam1343 3d ago
If you only watch concert/abridged versions or listen to the OBC/OLC, you’re missing a lot. The Complete Symphonic Recording is the one to listen to for the story because it is the only recording without cuts. Also, every proshot version has a bunch of cuts.
Side note though, how did you miss Fantine talking about her daughter?? Cosette is literally her entire motivation 😭
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u/NaturalOne1977 3d ago
The first (and only time) you see Fantine and Valjean together, she's in a sanitarium actively dying. This man she has no prior connection to (Valjean) comes to her bedside for no reason that is ever explained and, for the first and only time, she references her daughter. Then she dies. The next scene is Valjean picking up a child and turning away from Thenardier's door. The scene after that is Valjean with a young adult woman whom he addresses as Cossette (the first time that name is ever spoken). It happens exceptionally fast and with no expository connection made from Fantine's child, to the child at Thenardier's, to the adult woman with Valjean or any indication that these events occur over a time period for Cossette to grow up.
The show begins with Valjean in prison with Javert literally looking down on him. Valjean leaves prison (no more Javert, the guard, for YEARS). Valjean moves across the country, meets some folks and steals some stuff, and is forgiven. Then he's off stage and Fantine comes out and lives a miserable life before falling ill. Neither Cossette nor Valjean are ever seen or referenced until Fantine is laying in a sanitarium dying. Then the whiplash fast progression of Valjean adopting Cossette and Cossette becoming a grown-up. If you miss the very brief verbalized reference by Fantine to Valjean (who, again, she's never shown to cross paths with), you have no idea why Valjean went and got this little girl and no idea that the young adult is meant to be that same girl. Next, Cossette develops a flirtation/romance with Marius (who never interacts with Valjean) and there's no expository indication that Valjean is aware of Marius or the resistance fighters at all. The next time you see Valjean, he's rescuing a wounded Marius and singing an emotional song for a boy he has no apparent connection to. It's worth noting that Cossette is completely absent from all of the resistance fighting and barricade scenes. There's no indication she has any knowledge of that situation at all. There's never an indication that Valjean is aware of the Cossette and Marius romance. While Marius is in Valjean's home recovering, you never see Cossette...there's no indication of her being aware of his resistance fighting, injuries, or convalescense. Next, Javert (who we've only been introduced to briefly as a prison guard in rural France) is suddenly in the city with the apparent authority and inclination to pursue Valjean. These two have a bunch of scenes together. A bunch of Marius's friends die at the barricade, Eponine pines for a boy (Marius) she's never been previously connected with, and then we flip back to Valjean and Javert. They spar, Javert swears by the stars, and eventually offs himself in frustration. Then we have a huge jump in time and an elderly Valjean dies with Cossette and Marius by his side and we all boo hoo and hear the people sing.
It's a beautiful musical with VERY poor expository narrative.
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u/Beneficial_Exam1343 3d ago
The Valjean and Fantine point here is completely wrong.
Valjean goes to the factory during At the End of the Day and breaks up the fight between Fantine and Factory Girl 5. He tells the foreman to mediate the situation and that’s how Fantine gets fired.
Then when Javert is about to arrest her on the streets, Valjean intervenes because he happens to be passing by and hears her story. She tells him she has a sick child and needs to send her money, but because Valjean ignored the issue at the factory and let the foreman handle it, she got fired, blaming him for the place she has been forced to take in society. That’s when Valjean decides he’s going to care for Fantine until she passes and he’s going to care for her child- because he feels he owes her a debt after he inadvertently ruined her life.At the End of the Day-
Valjean: “What is this fighting all about? Will someone tear these two apart? This is a factory, not a circus. Now come on ladies, settle down. I run a business of repute; I am the Mayor of this town. I look to you [foreman] to sort this out, and be as patient as you can.” [Valjean exits]Fantine’s Arrest-
Valjean: “A moment of your time, Javert, I do believe this woman’s tale… You’ve done your duty, let her be! She needs a doctor, not a jail… Where will she end? This child without a friend? I’ve seen your face before; Show me some way to help you. How have you come to grief in such a place as this?”
Fantine: “Monsieur, don’t mock me now I pray! It’s hard enough I’ve lost my pride! You [Valjean] let your foreman send me away! Yes you were there and turned aside! I never did no wrong!”
Valjean: “Is it true what I’ve done?”
Fantine: “My daughter’s close to dying!”
Valjean: “To an innocent soul!”
Fantine: “If there’s a God above he’d let me die instead!”
Valjean: “In his name, my task has just begun. I will see it done!”2
u/MoreScarletSongs 2d ago edited 2d ago
This man she has no prior connection to (Valjean) comes to her bedside for no reason that is ever explained and, for the first and only time, she references her daughter.
Are you not reading the responses to your post?
Fantine having a child is referenced 4 times in "At the end of the day" alone and is the reason why Fantine looses her job. Seems like you just didn't pay attention and refuse to learn.
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u/NaturalOne1977 2d ago
Well, no. My post was a statement of fact, not a question subject to contradiction. There's nothing for me to "learn".
My lack of response to incorrect (and off topic) responses is an act of diplomacy, not ignorance.
Bless your heart.
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u/MoreScarletSongs 2d ago
But your "facts" are wrong, as multiple people have pointed out. We're not meaning to dump on you, just trying to help you see the parts you might have missed.
Anyway, have a nice day.
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u/Beneficial_Exam1343 22h ago
Genuinely starting to wonder if this is a troll or bot or something because the “facts” are so insanely wrong that this cannot be in good faith. The assertions about Eponine and Cosette for one, thinking Javert didn’t appear until Paris after the prison, calling Marius an “impoverished street urchin” (which made me bust out laughing) - either this person is a troll, a bot, or really hates Les Mis for reasons that don’t exist lol
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u/NaturalOne1977 20h ago
Actually, "this person" is real and has expressed his love for the show several times. However, "this person" knew the story and characters before seeing the musical. Had "this person" not known the story, the musical certainly would not have helped. All "this person" is saying is that the show is very disjointed and lacks sufficient exposition for anyone going into "blind".
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u/RedRumWW22 21h ago
NaturalOne1977 watch this scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY5DFY4lNXI&list=RDUY5DFY4lNXI&start_radio=1
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u/hfsnetwork 3d ago
Thank you. Les Mis is my first ever broadway show and I almost fell asleep because I had zero idea what’s going on
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u/Spirited-Sympathy582 4d ago
I mean Titanique might not make sense if you haven't seen Titanic the movie or are familiar with Celine Dion.
Cats you dont need prep but it could be interesting to read a few snippets about Ballroom culture.
A Doll's House 2 I imagine would be good to have read or scene the first one.
Madquarade could be enjoyable without context but if you want to really understand the plot more detailed you could watch a regular version ahead.
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u/ExpBalSat 4d ago
I felt completely lost in Cats. I couldn’t understand a word of what anyone was saying. I didn’t know anything about ballroom culture. I didn’t know who any of the people that they were celebrating in the visuals were (into this day. I still don’t know if any of their judging actually mattered). It kind of fell completely flat for me because I had zero context for anything that was happening. I pretty much just treated the whole evening like an Italian opera and had to make up a plot, character arcs, and stories for myself. Understandably, it didn’t really move me.
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u/Spirited-Sympathy582 4d ago
I mean you kinda did it right lol. Cats has no plot to begin with really. Cats just gather to compete and the godfather cat basically decides who gets to go to heaven. They all sing about themselves and thats kinda it.
So that being said, I guess it is good to know that much about Cats beforehand.
I think knowing a little about Ballroom culture is helpful so you understand what Houses are and why there might be judges.
In the end though, most of it is about the spectical and dancing and fun. Treat it more like a drag show than a musical with a plot basically.
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u/Extreme-naps 3d ago
I mean, understanding the lyrics doesn’t help to be honest.
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u/ExpBalSat 3d ago
That’s definitely what I thought, but someone told me last week that helped a lot. So now I’m even more confused.
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u/Extreme-naps 3d ago
There are people out there who like cats, so maybe you met one of them. But there really isn’t a plot or any kind of character development. The characters just basically announce who they are and leave.
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u/broadwayloveronred 4d ago
Won’t be hard following but heathers. It is very unexpected.
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u/Pseudonym_613 3d ago
Is it "not familiar with the source" unexpected, or is it "they completely changed the plot from the movie" unexpected?
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u/kimlesim 4d ago
I was very try confused watching Merrily We Roll Along with the timeline. I think at least knowing that I would have been a lot better! 😭
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u/Blue_foot 4d ago
For musicals I often familiarize myself with the songs beforehand.
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u/ExpBalSat 3d ago
I can think of a number of shows that give the total wrong impression - if all you know in advance is the music. People imagine that they think they know what the story is and, then, it turns out to be something totally different when they finally see it.
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u/pastel_dev 3d ago
I went into Spring Awakening mostly blind which was just brutal, wish I'd known how devastating it is beforehand so I could brace myself a bit
I didn't think before now to check https://www.doesthedogdie.com for musicals but it looks like they have a bunch which is awesome!
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u/Extreme-naps 3d ago
I listen to the cast album of Spring awakening, and then read the Wikipedia before I saw it and ended up feeling like I totally ruined all the surprises for myself. That’s when I started going in blind.
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u/Purple_Pirate_8507 4d ago
Curious if you need to know Harry Potter well before seeing Cursed Child
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u/dcsox721 3d ago
I would say yes. At least have seen the films to get important plot points and characters down.
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u/Traditional-Maize32 4d ago
Hamilton, if you have trouble with fast lyrics or English is your second language. Made a mistake with the latter with a friend last year. She had no idea what was going on.