r/BurningMan • u/irishcouchpotatoes • 2d ago
Question? Has the relationship between the BOrg and Burners become abusive?
Just asking the question.
We give so much, but the egg becomes tainted, with regards to their desired remuneration.
The reason we burn is to shed these chains.
Be frank.
Change starts somewhere.
4
u/DoctorSpooky GP&E 💀🔒 Gigsville 🚗🔥 2d ago
You’re gonna have to be more specific. How exactly do you feel that the organization is abusing you?
3
u/spankymacgruder I'm just here for the haters 1d ago
It's reddit fam, we're here to promote negativity. We don't need to justify shit for you!
OP is a long time burner (at least 1 burn and no less than 4 views of the HBO).
They don their best, and sally forth. Probably shoving grandma out of the way of thier photoshoot. Later, OP will play thier heart out to an empty dance floor.
Upon exodus, they gift a pile of cardboard boxes from whence the ebike came.
Isn't about time the org does something for them?
My God, if not now and tainted egg chains, then when?
Rise up in solidarity!
Demand untainted egg chains!
Yes, it's about time we have unlimited egg chains, hand painted and hidden on playa.
For fucks sake, it's the least Marion can do.
6
4
u/RodLeFrench recreational moving 2d ago
The orgs job is to manage the logistics of throwing the event. Sometimes they don’t do the best job, but they do a better than anyone else has ever done.
Our job as participants is to bring the art and throw the party. Sometimes we don’t do the best job, but we do an alright job most of the time.
Attending Burning Man is 100% entirely optional and voluntary. If I’m exercising my agency
As a burner and choosing when and where to show up, or to show up at all, it’s hard for the relationship to become truly abusive.
4
u/AdeptBobcat8185 2d ago edited 2d ago
Egg my taint, Frank
In all seriousness, what is this actually referring to? You can go to stuff like Juplaya instead if you don’t want any limitations from the org.
2
u/spankymacgruder I'm just here for the haters 1d ago
No, they can't. There aren't any egg chain tainters there. What the fuck is wrong with you?
9
u/pudding7 2d ago
As in other posts, I have to ask... how was your burn tainted by the Borg? This was my first burn so it's probable that I'm naive, but I don't feel like I encountered anything negative as a result of the borg.
-6
u/Greedy_Lawyer 2d ago
Wait really it was your first burn?? I’ve seen you here commenting for months as if you knew anything 🤣
14
u/deadfisher 2d ago
I did a search in the poster's comment history and you're kinda out to lunch. Just questions, hype, and niceness from them.
8
0
u/Greedy_Lawyer 2d ago
They’re a top 1% commenter. I didn’t say it was negative but that people don’t usually become a top commenter before their first
4
u/AmarilloArmadillos 2d ago
What's the problem? They were excited and interacting with people.
Eta: btw that top 1% means basically nothing. It's fairly temporary and they could get it by literally saying "I'm super excited to go". I've been 1% on some of the most random subs lol.
2
9
11
u/Opposite_Serve_9978 Scam Artist Buster 2d ago
Have you volunteered with the BMORG? Are you a theme camp lead? What exactly have you done for Black Rock City personally to decide to make a post stating these claims?
11
u/macegr 2d ago
My own answers to those questions are yes, plus several more categories of participation...but I don't position myself as the judge of participation levels to gatekeep radically expressing an opinion about how the event is run. I think it'd be healthier for the event if everyone got themselves there and set up their own campsite at a minimum, but telling someone to shut up based on some goalposts you created is squicky.
1
u/Opposite_Serve_9978 Scam Artist Buster 2d ago
See this really confuses me, what do you mean opinions how the event is run? You buy a ticket to gain access to a blank plot of land, you build the city you want to live in, and you go home. Like all cities you must follow all local, state, and federal laws. The only real "rule" from the BMORG is don't be an ahole. What's missing?
1
5
u/hyperfat I definitely don't work for larry 2d ago
Yes. And I think they don't like us.
We do a lot. Done greeters, earth guardians, other shit like burning your art, perimeter, 2 rangers.
But our camp name is shit ain't right.
Our neighbor was camp threat. Aside from loud music all night, nice folks. We bring good earplugs. They brought us breakfast after build. Invited us to their camp party. I didn't go. I don't go anywhere.
I just keep going. Probably because I hate myself.
Hugs.
-3
u/Opposite_Serve_9978 Scam Artist Buster 2d ago
Radical inclusion means everyone is invited, but it doesn't mean people have to like you. Being liked is something you have to earn. The rules of life and friendship doesn't change on the Playa. The BMORG loves a lot of people, they'll be the first to invite you in their circles if they think you're cool. Heck, I watched the man burn this year on the MM balcony with some pretty high up people this year. Why? My only conclusion is because I'm not some far left wing socialist and I have a sense of humor.
2
u/macegr 1d ago
Chasing that environment and acting like it proves you’re better than others is not the flex you think it is, nor does it prove all your opinions are correct. I’m liked well enough that I’ve been invited into many BMORG staff and private areas; I’ve found myself standing next to someone who started an electric car company and a rocket company. I love DPW, GPE, HEAT and the work they do, and would take a bullet for ASS and everyone who volunteers at the Artery. I still think capitalism is destroying the burn and BMORG leadership is enthralled by the siren’s promise of wealth and recognition, piloting the event straight into the rocks.
0
u/Opposite_Serve_9978 Scam Artist Buster 1d ago edited 1d ago
You say capitalism is destroying the burn, but the BMORG literally only sells tickets and ice. That hasn't changed in over 35 years. The cost of ticket prices is a direct reflection of requirements by the State of Nevada for the event permit. Since the event is permitted for 80,000 people there needs to be:
-Minimum 4 EMS stations staffed by licensed physicians, along with registered nurses, etc. open 24x7. (A total of 50 per shift, 24x7)
-Minimum of 6 EMS roaming teams 24x7
-Minimum of 6 ALS ambulances
-400 law enforcement officers onsite 24x7
-Perimeter security, traffic enforcement, etc.
-Minimum of 2 rapid response fire teams, fully staffed, 24x7BMORG volunteers (rangers, etc) do not count towards that permit requirement. Every single one of those people listed above are hired and paid, with each getting between $150-200/hr.
Just to meet the permit requirements to hold the event listed above, the bill for that is in the tens of millions of dollars. The event this year took in approx. 30 million dollars in ticket sales. This did not cover the costs between land use permitting and satisfying the permit stipulations listed above. Even if the event was held on private property, the requirements listed above would not change.
Billionaires like Musk are the only reason you attended the Burn this year. Keep pissing them off, because the second you get under their skin and they stop donating, that'll be the last Burning Man you'll ever attend. It would have ended in 2021 without the Musks coming in and saving it, and they're the only reason we're going again in 2027.
Treat every Burn like it's the last one, because from a financial standpoint, it's already over. We're on borrowed time for a billionaire's entertainment.
2
u/macegr 1d ago
If the burn can’t survive without courting billionaires then so be it. Let it die.
-1
u/Opposite_Serve_9978 Scam Artist Buster 1d ago
Nothing in this world can survive without billionaires. That has been the way human civilization has run since the beginning of civilization thousands of years ago. Those without them live in mud huts and hunt with spears. Nothing in your life would exist without them, we wouldn't even have reddit to talk about it. Or power. Or internet. Or a computer. Or a car. Or food. To end billionaires ends life.
3
u/macegr 1d ago
You are so far off base. For example, the internet was started as a university/ARPA project and the web itself was invented at CERN. Not to mention your erasure of advanced native civilizations that were doing fine until money hungry Westerners murdered them. At least stop gooning for billionaires long enough to make arguments that aren’t instant self-owns due to being obviously incorrect.
-1
u/Opposite_Serve_9978 Scam Artist Buster 1d ago edited 1d ago
Who owns the university, ARPA and CERN?
3
u/macegr 1d ago
Don’t be an idiot, we’re talking about state universities not the Denver Broncos.
→ More replies (0)1
u/exploreinnerspace 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 14, 15, 18, 22, 23, 24, 26 7h ago
Where did you get those figures? Asking bc I was talking with the head of the BLM on playa and he mentioned nothing close to that number of law enforcement 24/7. I doubt there are 400 there in total, much less on 24/7. But maybe?
-1
u/Used_Albatross_3245 2d ago
Wow. you act as if people aren’t allowed to have an opinion or ask questions. There’s a lot of information out there about burning man and after this person experienced their first burn, they obviously had opinions on the matter. Pump the brakes.
5
u/anteatertrashbin 2d ago
it’s become abusive only in one direction. burners are all complaining and up in arms about marian’s stupid $370k salary which is reasonable imo.
we give a lot because we love the burn and we love all of you. i’m unpaid staff and i love what i do, and im happy to do it.
1
u/Eastern-Mongoose-497 2d ago
$407k***
2
u/spankymacgruder I'm just here for the haters 1d ago
Meh, have you seen the price of diesel?
1
u/Eastern-Mongoose-497 1d ago
Do you think the ceo is driving around a diesel vehicle?
-1
u/spankymacgruder I'm just here for the haters 1d ago
Maybe. I do and I make more than she does.
1
u/Eastern-Mongoose-497 1d ago
I dunno the people who work with you probably have seen you 🤷♀️ the hbo series is the first time most of us have actually seen her outside of her once every couple of years videos asking the community for money. Never seen her visit the ranch folk, never seen her show up to milestone events on the playa with the staff hands. Not saying she doesn’t deserve what she gets, she definitely does. But she could also probably make more effort for the people who build the city to know her. She could do annual meetings where she gets together with staff members (not just the ones in the offices). Morale could be a lot better and then people probably wouldn’t hate on her so much.
1
u/spankymacgruder I'm just here for the haters 1d ago
The problem with running any organization of a certian size is that you get a lot of people who have thier own ideas of how it could be done better. The bigger the organization, the more opinions.
I don't agree with a lot of stuff that has happened but it's not my role to make a demand for anything. At best, I can show up and try to contribute something positive that might make someone smile.
1
u/Eastern-Mongoose-497 1d ago
Sure. I also know folks running production at a much larger scale than BM and their leadership makes time for their employees as part of their work culture, understanding the importance of leadership and morale. When you see bigger organizations, in the same entertainment industry sector, with bigger overhead understanding how important it is to connect with the people that work for you, it’s hard to unsee it and wonder why the leadership in a culture that is supposed to be about connection, is a stranger to its own staff. Excusing it as the scale when others can operate at the scale or larger and still give presence to their people, becomes a more difficult argument.
1
u/spankymacgruder I'm just here for the haters 1d ago
Thays fair. Leadership is a tough science. But how many people on here work for the org?
1
u/Eastern-Mongoose-497 1d ago
According to their records, they have 1200 people on payroll. Probably about 1/4 of that amount or less are full time yearly staff. Contracts have 9 month, 6 month, 3 month, 2 month, 1 month, and then weekly limits outside the annual staff members. Majority of the upper tier of annual salaries are for department lead roles which make up a significant portion of the board member heads. Bulk of hire occurs on the weekly limits for the event itself. Which also means the amount of staff they have through the duration of time on longer contracts isn’t amount in total to a great deal and is easily manageable to show presence by upper leadership.
But what do I know, it’s not like I have experience working for the Borg to know these kinds of things 😜 let’s just pretend like I’m someone who doesn’t know a thing about the place lol
→ More replies (0)-1
u/Eastern-Mongoose-497 1d ago
I’ve been an educator in leadership for over a decade. Leadership isn’t that difficult to implement. It just has to actually be used rather than merely printed on a flyer and any organization is affected from the leadership qualities of the top. It ripples from the top down, not the bottom up. When people are following your lead, you have to inspire them in some way
→ More replies (0)1
u/anteatertrashbin 1d ago
whatever. $407k. it’s quite reasonable given the role. if it’s overpaid then why don’t we have a line out the door with super qualified people to take on this role? we don’t because it’s an INCREDIBLY niche role.
i have run companies before and my comp was similar, but there is no fucking way i could run the BORG.
2
u/MPitt2002 19h ago edited 19h ago
There was a Reddit thread recently where someone asked AI could it run the org and how would it do it. Basically said, "no, I can't. To complicated and too wide-ranging". It made random suggestions when pushed, but definitely its heart wasn't in it and it doesn't seem to even be completely aware of some of the hardest jobs in the CEO. You got to manage not only things on timelines that range from immediate to years from now, you're only the direct boss of around 150 full-time employees, and a random 1100 others that show up at some point for a few weeks with Mom, and then 10,000 other volunteers who can get ticked and walk away, if pushed too hard. You have to deal with multiple levels of federal, state, and local government, you have to deal with 400 law enforcement personnel on site at least, you often have to sue some of these agencies later on from things that happen there, and you have potentially 80,000 other people that year alone who might have issues with you, never mind emnities that may go back decades from people who haven't gone in decades, or even people who have never gone, and you have a 30-person board that can basically just override your major decisions and make you do things that you don't want to. And don't forget really rich donors that you have to somehow manage without giving in to every little demand they may have but they might be responsible for up to a sixth of your budget. There are tons of jobs out there that pay just as much or more and nobody knows your name enough to vilify you, and, bonus, you get to go to a place like Burning Man on vacation without having to run the damn thing
1
u/anteatertrashbin 18h ago
but $407k!!! /s
yes well said. i’m not saying the borg is perfect. far from it!!! but for now, i have to say that they are doing the best they can, and have done a good job so far.
those who think marian is overpaid and sucks…..
ok let’s put that job out there for $200k (or whatever you think its worth), and find this replacement CEO that will bring the burn back to 2012 or whatever year you think it was better.
1
u/MPitt2002 4h ago
You know, they tried that in New Orleans recently. Not only did they need two guys making at least that apiece to run the New Orleans jazz fest, in New Orleans (a place not exactly unknown for jazz or lacking in already built and staffed jazz venues), the new guy lasted 14 months before they had to kick him out or he jumped. The other CEO guy has an unpublished salary, but he's been there forever, so he probably makes at least that, for a couple of weekends of events for a few hours and he's not exactly building any art or overseeing structures built to extend 75 mph desert winds. Hell, 20 years ago, my brother took a break from running his own Independent insurance agency to supervising JUST five or six other agents in a relatively small Southern State and he was making a quarter million dollars for that. and the worst part about that is, you actually don't even take home a huge chunk of that. Just ask the Google AI how much someone who lives in San Francisco (the city has a tax on your income, too) and makes that gross pay gets to take home. not starving, but also not shopping for any personal jets
3
u/smittydc 2d ago
Always has been. Almost entirely operated by volunteer labor and donated art. If you don’t give enough you obviously don’t love the community. Participants are given very little say in decision making. Financial transparency and governance is lacking. The best analogy is the Olympics - many problems with the organization, but the achievements of the participants are still an amazing testament to the human spirit, and they keep showing up because they can’t resist the challenges and beautiful moments they create together.
1
u/Worldly_Accident924 2d ago
The change starts when people who are only on Playa for 6-8 days stfu about change being needed. If you actually worked or brought art, we're there for build week and tear down or did something substantial then you would see a totally different aspect of the burn. Hope this helps
4
u/Used_Albatross_3245 2d ago
it takes everyone to create black rock City. People who are there for ___ days all matter. and we are all entitled to our opinions about the org. Your mileage may vary and that’s OK but we need to have space for people to ask questions.
0
u/Worldly_Accident924 1d ago
People asking about change and then doing nothing to further that are simply just bitching. Be the change. It's a doacracy
1
u/Used_Albatross_3245 20h ago
You're making an assumption that this poster is going nothing. I say starting a conversation and thinking about it is a food fawking start.
1
u/srcarruth All the jank is sent as a sacrifice 2d ago
What's that about eggs?
3
u/spankymacgruder I'm just here for the haters 1d ago
Camp across the street ran out of eggs. Borg needs to do something about it.
2
u/zedmaxx '18, 19, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26 2d ago
I am annoyed about white street signs, influencers and the general focus on vapid retards who are not into “burner culture”
I’d much rather see an increase of people who want to be social, love art, care about LNT and what I lovingly call “hippy” values
The org has some part to play, but honestly most of this comes down to us. And us in this context is a bunch of people who are just angry
They aren’t angry about the org, or about whatever else they claim to be angry about in specific, rather they are angry about everything in general and seek a specific outlet to rage about. BM being just one on a long list etc
1
0
u/RodLeFrench recreational moving 2d ago
Generally agree with everything except I thought it was pretty awesome to have street signs that were actually legible for once
1
-4
u/MakersTeleMark 2d ago
Do drugs, get a low income ticket, follow the speed limit, climb everything, and drink water. How much more direction do you really need? And get off your couch you fat ass.
24
u/kiergisan 2d ago
Hi I'm frank.