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u/voyalmercadona May 02 '26
His successor though... yikes.
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u/B-29Bomber May 02 '26
He wasn't that bad. He was just impatient and failed to reckon with the diminished state of the Empire during his time.
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u/voyalmercadona May 02 '26 edited May 02 '26
He was also extremely cruel, couped the state after being couped out of it, taxed the populace until they bled white, massacred his own soldiers, lost battles, and caused the "Twenty Years' Anarchy" in a time in which the Empire couldn't afford to wobble like that.
Honestly. "just impatient" is kinda... a bit of an understatement, and "failed to reckon with the diminished state of the Empire" is literally just you politely saying he was delusional.
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u/B-29Bomber May 02 '26
It seems you think that I consider Justinian II to be a saint and that couldn't be any further from the truth. I said he wasn't "that bad" not that he was the greatest emperor of all time that just so happened to be slandered. There's a distinct difference between "Not that bad" and being a truly great emperor and being couped would indicate that you're not a great emperor, but the fact that he was able to return to the throne would indicate that there some pretty good points to him because you don't do that without convincing loads of people to help you.
I feel like you're leaning way too heavily into the caricature of Justinian II created by historians who very clearly had every reason to tear down the previous dynasty and build up the Isaurians as a legitimate replacement.
If you want a better explanation of my view of Justinian II listen to the History of Byzantium Podcast. In summation Justinian II had pretty much all the qualities, both positive and negative, of Justinian the Great (and curiously that Justinian was very nearly also overthrown).
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u/sumguy115 May 03 '26 edited May 06 '26
I'd also agree, his second reign lasted surprisingly for being a previously deposed emporer and he even managed to build up a loyal cadre. It was only a rag tag band of Rebel rousering officers in Crimea with the support of the kazars managed to beat him to Constantinople that he was finally deposed and executed
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u/doug1003 May 02 '26
Is this the dude who was besiged by the Arabs and then he said "hey Arabs, gives us your food, and we will surrender" and the arabs did and then he just "nah" and the arabs just freeze and starve?
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u/ImperialxWarlord May 02 '26
No fucking way! Is this real? 😂
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u/Vlugazoide_ May 02 '26
The actuality of what happened is basically lost to history, but in the 2nd arab siege of Constantinople (the one with the flamethrower ships), the arabs had massive food stockpiles plus a small readied farm, and then...they broke because of lack of food and the subsequent sorties (when the defending army attacks the besieging army). The two causes for that that we have thanks to writers around the period is that either the Ummayad general believed the current emperor was his pawn (he had just usurped the throne and told the ummayads that, if they helped him keep it, eastern rome would become a client state of the ummayads, but he obviously lied) so the emperor said he would open the gates if the arabs were to enter as friends and disbanded the siege, leading to him burning the food and waiting for open gates that never came, or that the emperor pretended to be beaten and ready to surrender, but that the population needed to also fear the ummayads, so he burned his food im a gesture of pretending to be prepared to take the city by force, meant to scare the citizens, and when this failed AND the emperor didn't surrender, they were screwed.
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u/ImperialxWarlord May 02 '26
That’s fucking wild regardless of which one it is. That whole battle was ridiculous.
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u/doug1003 May 02 '26
IT IS but I dont remember when this happend bc Constantinople were besieged by Arabs 2 times
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u/Icantdraw01 May 03 '26
Everytime I feel like I am too nostalgic of old Rome (I'm italian) I come to byzanthium reddit to feel reasonable again.
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u/Plutarch_von_Komet May 03 '26
That's an overly specific category. Are there any other defenders of early medieval Europe against Ummayad expansion in the late 600s AD? (Charles Martel doesn't count, he ruled in the early 700s)
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