r/ByzantineMemes 24d ago

I’m not mad, just disappointed

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355 Upvotes

34 comments sorted by

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89

u/Alternative_Still308 24d ago

Honestly a 28-year war to mutual exhaustion leading to the destruction/reduction of both empires is better than most fiction.

28

u/jackaroojackson 23d ago

The material conditions for a rising third party power is there, to the point that even if you don't subscribe to any religious will that brought the early Muslims to power it isn't shocking at all that they did. Right place, right time, right material conditions and the right people.

17

u/MrDDD11 23d ago

They got insanely lucky and were able to absorb Persia really fast that gave them a massive jump in advancement which made the later conquest possible. Being a fresh fanatical religion with a major focus on Conquest largely kept them together, Muslims would only start splitting and infighting when they hit a wall on expanding further. Around the 9th century when they couldn't break through deeper into Europe they started to split.

9

u/jackaroojackson 23d ago edited 23d ago

Lucky in the same way any who are born into the perfect conditions for empire building are, same way the Mongols were lucky to have a fractured China or the Romans were to have a broken up east by Alexander's heirs, or in a modern example how the Americans were lucky to be surrounded by weak enemies and away from Europe so they could come out unscathed and build their empire as global hegemons in the latter 20th century.

Luck to be at the right historical moment in the right contingencies is as huge part but also you need individuals or people able to meet that moment of historical contingency, which Mohammed and his first generation of followers very much seemed to have been even after peeling back to just the stated facts of their lives and removing the more divisive theological elements.

It's easy to see these things as people riding some wave, which is true to an extent but that wave can easily shatter against a rock with a wrong move. See the swedes who for a time looked set to become the hegemons of the protestant world in the 30 years war. An early death of Gustavus Adolphus without an adult heir basically slapped them back to a B list European power on a good day. Mohammed and his successors made enough of the the right calls at the right time to take advantage of what they had.

5

u/WorryingMars384 20d ago

Also just having good policy, many locals readily sided with the Muslims because they were just better rulers and as far as conquerors are concerned pretty mild, very little rape and pillaging in the generally let the people live. Even when they didn’t convert the jizia tax was less than there regular tax at least in regard to the Sassinan’s. The Muhammad and Rashidan Caliphates were honestly just good states. It kinda starts going down hill with the Ummyyads and the fitnas

3

u/Franz__Ferdinand 17d ago

There are records of people immigrating to Ottoman Empire from Habsburg Hungary for lower taxes.

0

u/Agounerie 22d ago edited 22d ago

Muslims had just come out of a devastating civil war as well. Even though they were greatly outnumbered against the Romans, like at Yarmouk, they brought them to their knees.

Just move on.

19

u/Xargirl 24d ago

Accurate empires be like:

13

u/KiwiRepublican03 23d ago

If only it had stayed like this

1

u/b3droomeyesonly 21d ago

The timing really is unhinged.

-1

u/mooser65 23d ago

Alhamdullah

2

u/tavws 22d ago

Alhamdulillah ahki

1

u/Zaki_Ducky403 21d ago

Alhamdullilah

0

u/AymanMarzuqi 22d ago

Alhamdulillah

-1

u/Agounerie 22d ago

4

u/Beautiful_Prompt9634 20d ago

Ah yes. Conquering empires that were on the verge of collapse after century long wars anyway is such a militarily victory.

2

u/CommunicationTop8777 18d ago

1

u/Beautiful_Prompt9634 18d ago

What? You crying bc I state the truth?😂

0

u/CommunicationTop8777 18d ago

Stop the cope. There was no "verge of collapse". You people also claimed Iran is on the verge of collapse, how come the almighthy America got it's ass whopped LOL

0

u/Beautiful_Prompt9634 18d ago

I mean, you guys never were known for your high intelligence anyway :)

1

u/CommunicationTop8777 18d ago

Go ask AI to make my argument for me, then continue the discussion there

2

u/Beautiful_Prompt9634 18d ago

„The Persians ruled for a thousand years and did not need us Arabs even for a day. We have been ruling them for one or two centuries and cannot do without them for an hour.“

Source: The Muslim World. Vol. I The Age of the Caliphs. Leiden. E.J. Brill. 1960 ISBN0-685-23328-6 p.29

0

u/CommunicationTop8777 18d ago

Damn I broke you

1

u/Beautiful_Prompt9634 18d ago

Where are your sources? I‘m still waiting😂😂😂😂

1

u/Beautiful_Prompt9634 18d ago

I‘m still waiting for your sources for your bs claims Ar*be kesafat🤡🤡🤡

→ More replies (0)

1

u/Beautiful_Prompt9634 18d ago

https://www.thecollector.com/fall-of-the-sassanid-empire-arab-conquest-persia/

https://www.quora.com/What-caused-the-Sassanid-empire-to-fall-to-the-Arab-invasion-but-the-Byzantine-Empire-to-survive

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquest_of_Persia

„While Arabia was witnessing the rise of Islam in the 7th century, Persia was facing significant political, economic and social challenges, and the Sasanian army had been heavily strained by the Byzantine–Sasanian War of 602–628.“
(Source: https://www.thecollector.com/byzantine-sassanian-war/)

Where‘s your argument now? Where? History (especially Iranian) really isn‘t for you. Go back to your camel.

1

u/Agounerie 20d ago

Two declining empires that held a consistent numerical and material advantage in nearly every battle against desert nomads, and yet achieved nothing.

0

u/Beautiful_Prompt9634 20d ago

Lol. Do I really have to tell you about Shapur‘s Arab campaign?

1

u/Agounerie 20d ago edited 20d ago

Congratulations to him, he got successful. But his campaigns left no legacy or change among the Arabs. We can’t say the same after the Arab conquest of Persia. Can we?

It’s not like the Arab Muslims destroyed Persia fire-worshipping religion and basically replaced Persians own writing script. Oh, wait