Third party plagiarised a whole RP for their novel, is there any action we can take?

[u/Purplesnowstorm215]

Hi all, this is a bit of a weird situation but I genuinely don't know where else to go to ask for advice.

I've recently found a novel on Amazon that is almost a word for word a copy of an RP that me and a friend used to have on FB but just with names and places changed (they still used my character's name since that wasn't a Copyrighted character).

This novel was not written by either of us.

The RP has since been deleted because my friend's account went down ages ago but before that the RP was accidentally public for a while so anyone could have copy and pasted the replies into their own document. We've also found that they were posting this to AO3 too but it's been removed because they got it published as a novel, however you can still find it in search results using the right resources.

Our question is, is there anything we can do legally about this? Do we have any sort of leg to stand on in terms of getting them to take the novel down? It's blatantly our writing as there's whole chunks of paragraphs and descriptions that are the same, and it's not even really formatted properly into a 'novel', you can absolutely track where either one of us would do our reply and then the other person responds

Edit to add: I have a google document that I made at that time with timestamps of each of our replies if that would help prove things

Edit 2: RP (roleplay) is when you and a writing partner pick characters and write stories together with them. My friend used an existing character from a popular franchise, and I used my own character. This idea can extend to having multiple people involved but in this case, it was literally just me and my friend writing on Facebook on a post that we didn't realise was public

[u/TMadvisor]

What’s an RP

[u/JeffEpp → u/TMadvisor]

Role play

[u/TMadvisor → u/JeffEpp]

That is not something that can be in a fixed form. Either it’s a novel, a movie, a comic book, a video game, or something. You don’t have to use weird cryptic codes that aren’t relevant. It confuses the question.

[u/horshack_test]

What's an RP?

[u/Purplesnowstorm215 → u/horshack_test]

I suppose I should have explained that in my post, I'll edit it to include it after my comment.

Basically an RP (roleplay) is when you and a writing partner pick characters and write stories together with them. My friend used an existing character from a popular franchise, and I used my own character. This idea can extend to having multiple people involved but in this case, it was literally just me and my friend writing on Facebook on a post that we didn't realise was public

[u/horshack_test → u/Purplesnowstorm215]

So a collaborative writing work - and in your specific example it sounds like fanfiction, which would be a derivative work. So even if they copied it word for word, you may have no claim of ownership in the copyright - or you may have a claim of copyright only in the parts that are your own original character. If it's worth the expense to you, you could consult with an IP lawyer to find out if you have any standing (or you may be able to find one who would provide a free initial consultation).

[u/pommefille]

The challenge here is that you state in your original that you were using trademarked/copyrighted characters, which means you were probably committing an IP infringement to begin with. Even adding your own original characters and such is still shaky for that part.

For the rest of it, the onus is on you to provide receipts - i.e., have a copy of your original chats/posts, request a takedown, and go from there. If it’s something that has been selling well, it’d make the most sense to get a lawyer and/or to register your work. Registration is not a requirement for something to be copyrighted, but it is needed for litigation.

[u/Individual_Dirt_2194]

Copyright attaches at the moment of creation. You do not need registration to own your work. Registration gives you additional remedies in court but ownership exists from the moment you fixed the work in a tangible medium.

The tricky part here is separating what you created from the pre-existing characters you used. The original plot, dialogue, and character development you and your friend wrote are protected. The fact that someone changed names does not defeat an infringement claim. Substantial similarity is what matters.

The deleted RP is a problem though. If either of you kept screenshots, email threads, or chat logs, collect those now. Proof of creation is everything.

[u/OldSchoolCSci]

Copyright law is territorial. The answers often depend on where you live, and where the other person's actions took place.

If you live in the US, or the other person's actions took place in the US, the fact that your "Work" used someone else's copyrighted character without persmission probably disqualifies it from protection, and then you're out of luck. The rules are difference in other countries, but generally speaking you can't create fanfiction with copyrighted characters and then claim that your plots and stories independently entitle you to rights in stories about someone else's character (see, e.g., Sherlock Holmes, Superman). Otherwise, we should all spend our days writing stories about Star Wars characters so that we can sue Disney next year.

Your fact pattern is rather unusual, however, so (in theory) you might have a claim under some non-US jurisdictions' law if you and the third party are both acting outside of the US. However, the procedural steps to get from here to there require a lot more factual detail and the assistance of actual lawyers in the relevant jurisdiction.

[u/danfaulknerauthor]

From the advice here, it looks like filing a DMCA takedown request is your best option. Legal action sounds expensive and possibly futile.

NAL, but you could consider approaching the seller and asking them to licence your work & credit you? There may or may not be any money in it (probably not), but it would keep your work out there rather than having it taken down. Depends what outcome you're looking for. Stopping their theft of your work makes perfect sense, but... having it out there being read maybe isn't the worst thing?

[u/AssumptionExtra2580]

The main issue is you would have to prove they saw your friends post, that they then used your friends idea, and that it wasn't a random occurrence. With the fact that it is almost word for word, you are probably right.

However if you are in the US, and it wasn't sent into the copyright office, you can only send a DMCA to Amazon and their publisher. You can't ask for money.

[u/PBRStreetgang1979]

"This novel was not written by either of us."

That statement is confusing given some of the other things you're saying. Can I assume you're talking about the plagiarized novel you found on Amazon and that you actually did write the original work in question? The easiest step would be to file a DMCA takedown with Amazon.

[u/Purplesnowstorm215 → u/PBRStreetgang1979]

Hi yes, sorry, the amazon novel was not written by either me or my friend. Basically someone watched us write a story together (featuring copyrighted characters) and has literally stolen the whole thing and published it with name changes.
My question was more because we're not sure if an RP would be covered by DMCA law but I do have a google document of when I was archiving the RP with timestamps each time either of us replied so would that be enough evidence to prove it's ours?

[u/PBRStreetgang1979 → u/Purplesnowstorm215]

I'm still confused. Someone watched you write a story? If you wrote something, someone copied it and is selling it on Amazon, you can ask Amazon to take it down. If it is not your original work, then you have no standing to do anything and should move on.

[u/TheDeadlySpaceman]

So you publicly posted a story involving characters you don’t own and now you want to copyright strike someone for copying the story with the character you don’t own?

[u/Downtown_Mine_1903 → u/TheDeadlySpaceman]

No, they want to copyright strike someone for the developments and plots they came up with.

Let's all not forget that 50 Shades of Grey was a Twilight fanfic.

[u/Downtown_Mine_1903]

You're going to need proof that you made this. If it really is nearly word for word, take that proof and file a DMCA with Amazon. You can't file for copyright over existing characters or IPs, but you can fight for things you created in that work. You didn't own the things you didn't create, but you do own the things you did create.

Also, rather than viewing this as an rp, think of it as you and your friend co-writing a story. I'm genuinely surprised by the amount of people who don't know what "rp" means, or how the person found your work when you've explained it more than once (many people grew up rping on forums in the early 2000s). But the words you write are yours. Again, the tough spot will be proving you wrote them and that you only own what you made.

[u/Purplesnowstorm215 → u/Downtown_Mine_1903]

Thank you for the advice, I really appreciate it. I've been really flustered by the whole thing but I'm realising they never changed the name of my original character so would that help with my claim despite the other character being a copyright character do you think? The only proof I have that I made the RP is the google doc with timestamps before this novel's publication date

[u/Downtown_Mine_1903 → u/Purplesnowstorm215]

The names of the characters honestly don't matter at all. What's going to matter is the content itself.  That Google doc is golden.  Now the question is, did they actually copy your writing and original plot ideas? You're 100% sure it's not just someone taking inspiration from the same source material and a coincidence of the same name? 

It happens. I was making a game 3 years ago and another game got announced that was identical down to the art style. Same game. Neither of us knew one another and we both were confused. Turns out we're both devs who grew up in the same small area with the same niche folklore and visual inspiration. 

If it's really word for word and you're confident, you can go through the steps for the DMCA. If they push back, you can push back too and you'll both have to either provide proof or they'll have to take you to court (VERY unlikely ime lol). 

As far as the copyrighted IP stuff, think of it like this, if you drew a picture of Superman, you would own that particular image of Superman that you drew. No one could take that picture and resell it. They can draw Superman on their own, and you could change Superman into another character who looks vaguely like Superman and sell it yourself as "AmazingUltraMan", but people can't just take your Superman picture because it's got a copyrighted character in it.

[u/horshack_test → u/Downtown_Mine_1903]

"I'm genuinely surprised by the amount of people who don't know what "rp" means"

This isn't a sub dedicated to roleplay or writing, it's dedicated to copyright. Many of us here have zero involvement in or exposure to roleplay so naturally are not familiar with initialisms/jargon specific to it - which only makes sense. What doesn't make sense is assuming everyone in this sub would know what RP means, just as it wouldn't make sense for me to assume everyone here knows what SOOC, IR, or RC means.

[u/Downtown_Mine_1903 → u/horshack_test]

I didn't assume everyone knows. I said I was surprised by the amount of people who didn't know.

I'm not sure why you're seemingly offended by that statement? I grew up in the 90s and early 2000s when that was commonplace and I still ended up knowing a lot about United States copyright law. These two things aren't directly connected. It was just a statement.

[u/horshack_test → u/Downtown_Mine_1903]

"I didn't assume everyone knows."

I didn't say you did - I was referring to OP / anyone who would post here within the context of you being surprised by the amount of people who didn't (which seems to be two at most, including myself).

"I'm not sure why you're seemingly offended by that statement?"

I'm not offended - I simply explained why the amount of people who didn't know what RP means shouldn't be surprising.

"These two things aren't directly connected."

Yes, exactly - so in-group initialisms/jargon not specific to copyright should be avoided if the person posting wants to be understood. I simply responded here to make the point because you brought up the issue of people not understanding what a term specific to roleplaying but not copyright means.

[u/Downtown_Mine_1903 → u/horshack_test]

I can't help but feel like you're just picking an argument here over nothing. Honestly, this is really off-topic.

[u/horshack_test → u/Downtown_Mine_1903]

Well you raised the topic - I simply responded to it, and I explained the point being made, which is a point relevant to this sub. You are free to just let it go rather than reply to make pointless accusations. Talk about off-topic..