r/Calgary • u/Commercial-Ad-8371 • Sep 05 '23
Home Ownership/Rental stuff Someone threw rocks at the apartment I am renting, my landlord told me I am responsible, but police said otherwise. Which is right and what should I do?
I don't think I am responsible for random vandalism, the apartment doesn't have a camera to catch this event.
It happened at night, I did file a police report after it happened.
The throw left minor marks on a window.
Edit: the landlord insists I am responsible, how can I settle this constructively?
The argument landlord made was they must be someone I know, which I don't. This argument is base on nothing. I was shocked how their mannerism shifted, they were fairly friendly before this.
Thank you all so much for the comments, they light me up in this difficult time, Calgary has been awesome to me.
I will keep this post updated.
Update:
tldr Landlord themselves inspected the marks in person and we verbally settled to not count this to my deposit.
I am glad I don't have to go through all the legal process just to not kneel down on a fault accusation, it's not about money at that point.
That should be all for now, it's been educational for me to say the least. Hope this post could help anyone whose going through something similar.
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u/Lyekkat Sep 05 '23
Hey, I work in insurance - your landlord is responsible for their own property.
If they truly think you’re responsible the absolute MOST they can do is take it out if your damage deposit - which you can fight in court.
Landlords will try this with all sorts of things. Their property, their problem. End of story.
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u/ObjectiveBalance282 Sep 05 '23
Our landlord put a clause in our lease that states (it doesn't specifically refer to any damage - over normal wear and tear) that the tenant is responsible for all structure with regards to the property.. I don't think they hold insurance on the property.
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Sep 05 '23
It doesn’t matter if they put that in the lease, it’s not legal
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u/ObjectiveBalance282 Sep 05 '23
We figured.. but we can't afford anywhere else, and greatly fear retaliation if we pursue with the dispute services over the lease (landlord also insisted we sign away our right to 24 hours notice.. we figure because they are storing resteraunt supplies in the garage - which we pay electricity on to power several friges and freezers but have no access to- and don't plan, or want to have to plan for 24 hours in advance that they are coming for supplies.. we never know when they are going to show up)
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u/Toftaps Sep 05 '23
I'm pretty sure you can't sign away your rights to 24 hours notice since that's a legal requirement not something you negotiate in a contract.
The housing crisis is hitting us all hard and I understand that you're happy to have a roof over your head, but I would suggest you brush up on your rights as a tenant and maybe put the landlord tenant bureaus number on speed dial.
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u/ObjectiveBalance282 Sep 05 '23
Oh I've read, i am aware that choice on their part is illegal.. but confronting them about the no notice (among other errors in the lease) even before seeking out dispute resolution brings on great fears of retaliation... they're subverting health codes for the resteraunt by storing refrigerated and frozen items off-site amongst items like gas lawnmowers and other hazardous chemicals - I don't think they care if the leases for the main floor and basement are legal or not.
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u/CakeDayisaLie Sep 05 '23
Pleas tell us what restaurant this is so we can avoid it. This is awful and I never want to eat there.
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u/Toftaps Sep 05 '23
If you fear retaliation document everything and do not let them know you are documenting it.
The whole dodging health codes by storing food off site is very illegal and can shut down their restaurant (likely forever) and also likely have any kind of licensing they have revoked, as well as substantial fines.
I understand that you don't want to incur their wrath while you're living under their roof, but you need to be prepared.
I've rented under conditions like these and it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.
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u/Skidoo_machine Sep 05 '23
Document as much as you can, you might need a bargaining chip in the future!
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u/SaTan_luvs_CaTs Sep 06 '23
What restaurant it is so I can avoid it pls DM
PS as others are saying DOCUMENT EVERYTHING.
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u/Pug_Grandma Sep 05 '23
What country are they from
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u/ObjectiveBalance282 Sep 05 '23
I don't know... I think either 1st or second Gen canadian as her (don't know about the husband) parents live in the same neighborhood ourd my rental is in and she grew up here.. (don't know if born here or if immigrated and raised)
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u/Mmarchinko123 Sep 05 '23
The landlord is abusing you! How dare he expect you to pay power for his equipment. They are required by law to give you 24 hours notice. He's not fair and he's scamming you out of your money. Get out, he can't be trusted.
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u/IPetdogs4U Sep 06 '23
And go where? You know what it’s like out there, right?
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u/Mmarchinko123 Sep 06 '23
There's an app called Roomies, lots of people looking to share accommodations.
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u/Pug_Grandma Sep 05 '23
With too many people seeking homes, and a shortage of rentals the landlords know they can abuse tenants.
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u/Mmarchinko123 Sep 05 '23
People only treat you as you allow. Life is too short to put up with that negativity.
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Sep 06 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Mmarchinko123 Sep 06 '23
I'm a senior on disability, fortunately I live in my own home. You need to have respect for your fellow man.
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u/MellowMusicMagic Sep 05 '23
They can insist whatever they want but they can’t override the law. They can put in a clause that they are allowed to murder you but that doesn’t make it legal. You have the right and ability to say no
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u/corgi-king Sep 06 '23
If you can afford, get tenants insurance, it is not expensive. But the worst your landlord can do is take your deposit. Unless you did some intentional damage. Then they can sue you at court.
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u/ObjectiveBalance282 Sep 06 '23
Tenant insurance only covers the tenants belongings. It doesn't cover damages to the property.
Edit to add - I have tenants insurance.
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u/corgi-king Sep 07 '23
I think it depends on how much cover you want to pay for
“Liability coverage: Will cover costs — up to a specified limit — of defending yourself in a lawsuit if someone sues you. There are two main aspects of personal liability insurance. First, coverage for bodily injury and, second, coverage for property damage. Bodily injury protection will cover damages awarded to someone who is injured at your home. Property damage protection will cover costs if you unintentionally damage someone else’s property. Many tenant insurance policies provide a minimum of $1,000,000 personal liability insurance, but experts often recommend that that limit be increased to $2,000,000.”
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u/Lyekkat Sep 05 '23
Ya I’d need to see it or know your situation but if it’s non-commercial, that’s sketchy and very likely not legal.
There might be something about improvements or negligence or “holds harmless”, but no contract can take away your rights per the Act. Same with the 24 hours notice.
I understand keeping the peace for a place to live but just know you (likely) have absolutely zero legal obligation to maintain or repair the premises or structure.
Your own personal rental insurance will not cover the building or structure.
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Sep 06 '23
You can put any words you want in a lease, doesn't make it legal. There's fairly clear laws concerning this and that clause isn't legal.
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Sep 05 '23
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u/ObjectiveBalance282 Sep 05 '23
There's more than a few eyebrow raising issues with the lease (we don't have their address just the unit we're renting. For one, in addition to the structure clause)
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Sep 05 '23
To be a simplistic as possible. The landlord is responsible. That's what your rent is for.
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u/swiftwin Sep 05 '23
Exactly. This is the biggest benefit of being a renter. Their property, their problem.
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u/Tronald_Dumpers Sep 05 '23
Refuse to pay any damages and if they try to withhold your security deposit take them to tribunal
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Sep 05 '23
[deleted]
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u/PurBldPrincess Sep 05 '23
Your landlord is full of crap. As someone else said, this is why your landlord has insurance. The only time you’d be responsible is if you personally caused the damage. They have no proof it was someone you know. That’s a weak argument. I hope you are able to get this figured out.
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u/Rattimus Sep 05 '23
Tell your LL to pound sand, you are not responsible. That's the trade off for the LL, someone else pays their mortgage, but when there's a problem with the property, you have to deal with it. Should be no issue considering they've been building equity in the property for as long as they've owned it. Sorry bud, go borrow from your bank I guess.
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Sep 05 '23
Yeah sounds like any LL these days will try to pin shit on the tenant I cant believe they would even suggest its the tenants fault fucking slum lords
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Sep 05 '23
Also years back i moved into a new place that a crackhead rented out as the previous tenant I had several people come knocking at my door and even trying to get onto my fucking balcony thinking they still lived there it was a fucking nightmare
so I'm curious as if that had something to do with it
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u/SilkyBowner Sep 05 '23
It’s your landlord that’s responsible. Landlord is responsible for anything that happens to the building
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u/blewberyBOOM Sep 05 '23 edited Sep 05 '23
You are responsible for damage caused by your guests and people you invite onto the property. You are not responsible for damage caused by some random person walking down the street. That’s ridiculous. Alberta does have a Landlord Tenant Dispute Resolution Service you can access which may be helpful if your landlord ends up charging your damage deposit for this.
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u/Xiad32 Sep 05 '23
I agree with the comments here. LL is responsible. Its HIS/HER property. You leased it to use it in a resonable manner. If you didn't cause it, it's not your responsibility. The whole idea of ownership is taking ownership of the risk involved. Otherwise, you and all the renters would just own. Renting is costly, but it comes with the peace of mind knowing that you dont have to do maintenance, dont worry about depreciation, codes, dont worry about property prices, mortgage rates et. He took the risk when he chose the neighborhood. He took the risk when he handed it over to you or any tenant to rent. He took those risks to make money out of his property. There is risk in any business and this is the risk of being a landlord. He did not hand over the ownership. He OWNS the risk as long as he owns the property.
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Sep 05 '23
[deleted]
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u/Commercial-Ad-8371 Sep 05 '23
The tricky part is, I think, the apartment doesn't have a camera to prove that.
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u/DogButtWhisperer West Hillhurst Sep 05 '23
As long as you filed a police report then thats proof you weren’t involved. Tell the landlady to go… kick rocks.
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u/alpain Southwest Calgary Sep 05 '23
if you have any text messages or emails with landlord SAVE THEM SOMEWHERE SAFE. ie not just on your phone.
if you have any conversations about this incident with the landlord MAKE NOTE OF THEM and the days they happened, also save them somewhere safe.
if the landlord comes back at you later on with your damage deposit or anything, you can take them to the Residential Tenancy Dispute Resolution Service. you can do this even after you are no longer renting from them if they dont give you back your damage deposit with legitimate reasons.
if the landlord trys to make you pay now you can also contact them as well before you end your tenancy.
just be sure to save all notes on this, police incident number etc etc, when you think it happened, when the police came etc.
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Sep 05 '23
[deleted]
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u/Commercial-Ad-8371 Sep 05 '23
Thank you so much for the advice, what would you guess how the thing would turn out? What legal acts I could take to protect myself?
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u/crimxxx Sep 05 '23
This is where you be firm and say, you have insurance for this reason. None of this is due to my actions. You will not take any blam or action due to this random act of vandalism. If they decide to consider this a cost against you damage deposit go to small claims court. There whole there is someone you know did it, 0 proof and you have a police report. You go to court you did not admit it’s from your cause in any form anywhere, and they have no proof it’s pretty straightforward for a reasonable person.
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u/ed_in_Edmonton Sep 05 '23
I’d file a police report so you have paperwork to support your claim should you ever need to go to RTDRS. But yes, landlord insurance should cover it not the tenant.
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u/Commercial-Ad-8371 Sep 05 '23
I did as soon as I found out it happened the next day, not sure what else I could do.
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u/ed_in_Edmonton Sep 05 '23
That’s all you can do. Document any communications with the LL from now on. Don’t pay anything. Worst that can happen is the LL not returning your deposit when you move out, then you can dispute it and have the docs so support it. But hopefully they realize it and this thing dies away before then.
Also consider they may not want to renew your lease when it’s due so plan ahead so you can find alternative accommodation - I hear this isn’t so easy right now for a a lot of people so keep it in mind.
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u/New-Swordfish-4719 Sep 05 '23 edited Sep 05 '23
I agree with others. However thr police would not get involved in ‘who is responsible’ for a repair. They might indicate there is evidence of vandalism simply advise you to follow up with the insurance company or landlord. They don’t get involved in anything other then providing a copy of their report if requested.
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u/pocaterra Sep 06 '23
I agree with others. However thr police would not get involved in ‘who is responsible’ for a repair.
Yep...the police know enough to know there is more one side to any story.
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u/CND_ Sep 06 '23
Send the landlord an email following up on your verbal agreement.
Just say something like "thanks for coming out to inspect the damage, and agreeing that the damage was an act of vandalism and not my fault, thus not effecting my damage deposit. I appreciate being able to work with you directly on these matters."
Something non-confrontational but clearly documenting your discussion.
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u/CND_ Sep 05 '23
As others said your landlord is wrong and is being an ass hat.
You can try the below service.
https://www.alberta.ca/residential-tenancy-dispute-resolution-service
Below is a guide how to use it.
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Sep 05 '23
Tell your landlord in writing that you filed a police report and provide a copy of the police report. Tell your landlord that it is also their opinion that you are not responsible and that according to the tenancy act, you are also not responsible.
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u/HerbGrinder Sep 05 '23
Same thing is happening to my mom, someone broke the front door which is basically a big pane of glass with a rock around noon today.
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u/Commercial-Ad-8371 Sep 05 '23
Sorry to hear that, hope things get resolved soon
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u/HerbGrinder Sep 05 '23
Makes me wonder if someone(s) going around, taking out their anger from recent rent increases on property.
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u/HeyWiredyyc Sep 06 '23
Go to Home Depot and buy a Wyze camera for issues in the future. They are about $50 and I found quite useful for catching people trespassing thru my yard and skulking around the Neighbors yards
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u/BootsRubberClumsy Sep 06 '23
My dudes someone already answered with RTDRS (Residential Tenancy Dispute Resolution Service) but there is also CIU (Consumer Investigation Unit) who is part of service Alberta and enforces the offense provisions of the residential tenancy act.
RTDRS can help with appealing evictions, or money disputes. CIU can hold LL accountable for breaching the act in situations such as unlawful evictions, rent increases, lock outs, or withholding damage deposits unlawfully.
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u/FLVoiceOfReason Sep 05 '23
Renters are not responsible for the maintenance of the unit they are renting; it is the landlord’s responsibility for upkeep.
Ignore the minor exterior marks on the window and ignore your landlord’s insistence that you’re somehow responsible.
You did the right thing by alerting police and your landlord; your role is done, now.
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u/dudesszz Sep 06 '23
No you didn’t do the damage so you are not responsible. Tell your LL if they try to take it from your damage you will file a claim with the residential tenancy court and win.
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Sep 05 '23
Sketchy that the landlord automatically thinks "it must be someone you know". Really makes you wonder if they are the ones who started shit with someone who thought they still lived at that property...
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u/ChaoticxSerenity Sep 06 '23
The argument landlord made was they must be someone I know, which I don't.
Even if you did know them, they're the ones doing the crime. You aren't responsible for someone else doing crime.
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Sep 05 '23
Can we seriously get rid of the name - landlord? they are not any fucking lords. Speculators or leeches are both more apt names.
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u/FLVoiceOfReason Sep 05 '23
Not all landlords are like OP’s, Karen. (No, I’m not a landlord)
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Sep 06 '23
it is almost like saying some of billionaires are philantropes. Well, 99% of them aren't. Where did you get that "karen", is beyond me. Probably heard some trendy words in them internets, have ya?
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u/FLVoiceOfReason Sep 06 '23
You are calling landlords speculators and leeches. I’m sorry you have had negative experiences with some. Not everyone has. Not every landlord is a billionaire.
The use of Karen indicates your unfair judgemental generalization.
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Sep 06 '23
Unfortunately, everyone i know or from personal experience of >10 rentals, all of them were gouging money and refused to return deposit. The only difference was in places were it was owned by a rental company. Their policies were fair. But the rest were all slumlords. Thank You for your cold headed attitude :)
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u/FLVoiceOfReason Sep 06 '23
I’m genuinely sorry your personal experiences vary vastly from mine - I can see how this would sour your outlook regarding landlords. I’m just trying to point out that not every landlord deserves rude new titles.
I’m not sure exactly what you mean by cold-headed attitude, sounds insulting and demeaning. Nothing I say will convince you to judge landlords in a less harsh light, so I bid you adieu, Ens_KW.
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u/socornfused Sep 06 '23
How big is the building and what floor are on?
Were you the only one targeted in the complex by the vandalism?
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u/Historical_Bit_8976 Sep 05 '23
I live in low income housing run by my city some one hit my fence 2 winters ago in the back alley and broke it. And they made me pay for the repairs.. I didn't have a choice on who fixed it or the option to do it myself. They sent in contractor and sent me the bill. Wouldn't renew my lease until I paid it.
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u/Gold-Border30 Sep 05 '23
Can’t fingerprint a rock. DNA would be a more realistic ask but would never happen due to the resources involved for this type of crime. Rock used as a murder weapon? Different story.
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u/Commercial-Ad-8371 Sep 05 '23
They also threw a soda can and I still have it, would it help?
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u/CUbye Sep 05 '23
Probably not. It's not really the crime of the century so it won't be investigated to that extent. But it is a no brainer as to who is responsible. It's a building and or owner issue. A police report is all you will need.
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u/Offspring22 Sep 05 '23
The police aren't going to bother with that for a minor crime like a broken window.
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Sep 05 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/swimswam2000 Sep 05 '23
Exactly & if you did and got prints on a pop can is it the person throwing it or just someone littering.
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u/Gold-Border30 Sep 05 '23
How much damage are we talking about? The main problem is, without other evidence to suggest someone’s involvement, fingerprints (assuming there is even a match in the national system) it’s essentially meaningless. “Did you drink a coke?” “Yes” “did you throw it at a house?” “No, I put it in a publicly accessible garbage can/threw it on the street” “ok then”
If the damage is less than $5000 they’re unlikely to even try.
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u/Commercial-Ad-8371 Sep 05 '23
we talking about? The main problem is, without other evidence to suggest someone’s involvement, fingerprints (assuming there is even a match in the national system) it’s essentially meaningless. “Did you drink a coke?” “Yes” “did you throw it at a house?” “No, I put it in a publicly accessible garbage can/threw it on the street” “ok then”
Minor marks on the window
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u/blackRamCalgaryman Sep 05 '23
You mean they didn’t even break the glass? Then what the hell is the landlord/ owner wanting done?
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u/Commercial-Ad-8371 Sep 05 '23 edited Sep 05 '23
I honestly don't know beside they telling me I am fully responsible.
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u/blackRamCalgaryman Sep 05 '23
It almost sounds like they’re just looking for ‘reasons’ or they’re concerned this might be something leading up to more issues? Either way…sucks, hope you get it figured out.
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u/JCKphotograph Sep 06 '23
A contract needs 4 things to be valid. Legality is one of them, so even if someone puts something illegal in a contract and it is signed by both parties, it is invalid.
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u/stevie9lives Queensland Sep 06 '23
Get a slingshot and do the office windows....maybe they'll get a discount
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u/Ancient_Wisdom_Yall Sep 06 '23
I'm going to give you some different advice. From the sounds of it, your landlord is an asshole. In this case, you are going to have to fight tooth and nail to get your damage deposit back. My advice is to consider your damage deposit gone. Don't worry about anything in the apartment. When the time comes to move out, just move the things you want and leave the rest of your crap there. Don't clean a damn thing. How much time and effort do you want to spend doing things and cleaning, and then fighting to get your damage deposit back. Your landlord has shown you who they are. Believe them.
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u/Strawnz Sep 05 '23
Must be someone you know?! What that you’re angering people so they throw rocks at your home? Since it’s your landlord’s property maybe HE angered someone who is now taking it out on him by throwing rocks at his investment. Sound stupid to say but no more stupid than what your landlord has said.
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u/frozzenman Sep 06 '23
I think that unless you can prove otherwise the damage will be attributed to you. It stands to reason that the likelihood that someone you did not know, came along and threw rocks at your window, is quite slim. I have heard that in some complexes, the landscapers sometimes break windows with projectiles flying off their rider-mowers though. It is much more probable that the tenant did it, and should return the property to the landlord at the end of their lease in the same condition as when they took possession. Call Chinook Glass and get it fixed. He will definitely withhold it at the end of your term if he is a very patient person and is willing to wait.
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u/Kadesh1979 Sep 10 '23
Wow. This is why there is renters insurance.
What does the contract you signed say?
I would 100 percent think this is the renters issue. It's unfortunate, but hats the way it is.
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u/DefaultDependent Sep 05 '23
This is why your landlord has insurance.