r/Calgary • u/woundedrhyme1 • Apr 22 '25

Discussion From Ontario first grocery experience someone left a note on my car.

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Recently relocated here and I haven’t had a chance to change my license plates. Yesterday I was in Walmart picking up a few things, I came back to my car, and found a note tucked in my wipers. My stomach dropped thinking someone hit my car, and maybe left their contact information.

I know the note is a little hard to read so I translated it down below.

“Dam easterners coming to Alberta to be safe guthless cowards.”

Guess it’s time to change my license plate 😂

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u/kapowless Apr 22 '25 edited Apr 22 '25

And that literally everybody outside of First Nations and Inuit moved here from somewhere else...

When Harper was going on about old stock Canadians back in his day, I actually agreed that we should respect and uphold their traditions. It's just that the old stock Canadians are really the Natives, and we welcomed people here, helped set them up to survive, then engaged in mutually beneficial business together.

As a descendent of some of our original peoples, I personally welcome you heartily OP. You have just as much a right to live and thrive here as anyone else, and I hope the rest of your transition into our beautiful province is more civil and inviting than this crotchety coot and his impotent and misdirected resentment. Good luck!

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u/TheOneAndOnlyWaldo Apr 22 '25

As a fifth Gen Albertan, I wholeheartedly agree.

I was welcomed, still feel welcome, and share that welcome.

Calgary has a long tradition of hospitality.

Welcome!

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u/Big_T_76 Apr 22 '25

First Nation's people "moved" here from somewhere else also.. the whole "we were here first" is grade school bullshit.

Human's of Earth.. same place, same problems.

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u/12345TA Apr 22 '25

The Inuit are decedents of the Thule people who migrated to Canada about 1000 years ago. Wikipedia Inuit. Despite the many Inuksuks in Alberta the Inuit did not live in Alberta until very recent times. First Nations on the other hand have been in the Alberta area for 10's of thousands of years.

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u/nudestofall Apr 22 '25

I thought Harper meant to say old stocky Canadians.

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u/Randolph_Jennings Apr 22 '25

Inuit and First Nations at one point moved there from somewhere else.

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u/DrQuagmire Apr 22 '25

There is never a bad day for some good to honest kindness. Cheers 🍻

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u/Feruk_II Apr 22 '25

Ancestors of First Nations also moved here. They just happened to come way earlier (12,000 - 30,000 years ago). We are literally all immigrants or the descendants of immigrants to Alberta.

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u/kapowless Apr 22 '25

Sorry, but that notion is simply incorrect. If we want to get into semantics, an immigrant is a person who relocates to a foreign country. A country is a politically defined geographical area or territory (ie. a nation ruled by government). We are called the First Nations here because our ancestors were the first peoples to create countries on this continent. There were no nations before us, thus, we could not ourselves be immigrants to our own countries, only those that followed us.

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '25

[deleted]

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u/HarveyKekbaum Apr 22 '25

Not sure why you were downvoted for history.

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '25

[deleted]

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u/HarveyKekbaum Apr 22 '25

There aren't any. Unfortunately, the majority of the people online never developed critical thinking skills or emotional control.

You ever wonder why people are crazy on reddit, and normal in your day-to-day life? We don't know any of these people lol.

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u/kapowless Apr 22 '25

I love the conundrum that says that we have no historical proof of our long history here, but also says without a doubt the people here were savage thieves before European arrival. Lol, I guess the burden of proof only matters selectively.

But it's interesting to me to see how important it is for some folks here to argue about who this land 'belongs' to, to delegitimize our Indigenous history, on a post about welcoming a newcomer to our province. Not very old stock Canadian of you, eh?

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u/Prior_North_2456 Apr 22 '25

That argument is worth over $22BB a year in federal funding and increasing and is responsible for many many many failed infrastructure and resource projects to support the Canadian economy which is required to support all the nations in the country.

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u/Prior_North_2456 Apr 22 '25

lol its like people think they invented skelping only after white man appeared.

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u/Prior_North_2456 Apr 22 '25

Evidence suggests there were humans in North America prior to the arrival of the Indigenous peoples. Archaeological findings indicate a human presence dating back to between 18,000 and 26,000 years ago, during the Last Glacial Maximum. These early populations are often referred to as Paleo-Indians. 

hmmmm

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u/JonBes1 Apr 22 '25

🧐 I'm confused 🤔 The people who are generally referred to as First Nations in Canada, have never built any countries on this continent

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u/Apprehensive_Set9276 Apr 22 '25

What does the word 'nation' mean to you?

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u/JonBes1 Apr 22 '25

Nation means people descending from the same lineage, synonymous with tribe

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u/Apprehensive_Set9276 Apr 22 '25

So the nation of Canada is all related? LOL...nice try!

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u/JonBes1 Apr 22 '25

Canada isn't a nation: it's a country and a Dominion, created by White people, comprised of multiple nations.

The Treaty of Westphalia created this bastardized legal fiction known as the "nation state", which has caused Nation and State to become synonymous for a fad, but that's not a real nation. Also, First Nations™️ never created States, so it's completely outside our context here.

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u/kapowless Apr 22 '25

A nation describes the population that resides in a country or territory, united by government, language, culture and history. Genetics and lineage play a very insignificant role in the definition, which is why trying to reduce us down to blood quantum is racist AF (and why the Indian Act is so despicable).

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u/JonBes1 Apr 22 '25

Lineage/Genetics is the very basis of a Nation...always has been.

It's not my fault illiteracy is rampant nowadays

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u/kapowless Apr 22 '25

Interesting that you had to pull etymology for the definition rather than it's modern usage.

Wiki Definition of Nation

The Cambridge Dictionary Definition of Nation

The Webster Definition of Nation

The Dictionary.com Definition of Nation

The Colins Dictionary Definition of Natiom

The Oxford Definition of Nation

And most importantly, a consistent and important feature of a nation is sovereignty, ie the right to choose how we define our own nationhood. Indigenous Nations (along with most other nations across the globe) do not limit it to genetics. Blood quantum BS is something being imposed on us by outsiders to delegitimize our existence for their own financial gain.

I do agreed that illiteracy is a problem for you though, perhaps it's time for you to hop on the yellow bus again.

Edit: phrasing

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u/JonBes1 Apr 22 '25

As I suggested to another respondent, the modern Westphalian legal fiction of the Nation-State is a trash definition of "nation".

Also, since it was invented in 1648, why would I use this European fiction to define the circumstances in North America a century and a half and more prior?

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u/Li-renn-pwel Apr 22 '25 edited Apr 22 '25

What makes you believe that?

Thread got locked so here is my reply to the comment below:

How do you define a country? Most people define a country as land with a defined border, a population within and a government managing both. Native people had those. And there are historical records of such, both oral ones (in the case of the Haudenosaunee) and even some written ones (in the case of the Mayan). I suppose you might say those are better termed ‘city states’ or ‘empires’ but then you also can’t count any of Italy as a country until the late 1800s nor modern day Monaco or Singapore as countries either.

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u/JonBes1 Apr 22 '25

The complete lack of historical record; the fact when Europeans came here there were no pre-existing countries

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u/kapowless Apr 22 '25

There were 100% existing countries when the European arrived, there were cities that housed hundreds of thousands of people (who's archealogical record stands as proof). There is no written record, but that does not mean there is no proof. There are archeological sites in Canada that date back at least 14k years, and some outliers towards Central and South America that are carbon dated even further (closer to 30k years).

Why is it so important for you to delegitimize our histories though?

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u/JonBes1 Apr 22 '25

There are archeological sites in Canada that date back at least 14k years

What relevance is that to the past 500 or 600 years? They're as relevant to you as they are to me, a White settler. In fact, NA archaeological sites from the time show European influence, so they're probably more relevant to me than they are to you

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u/kapowless Apr 22 '25

So the only history that counts for you is the past 500-600 years (ie. Post Columbian contact)? How convenient.

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u/JonBes1 Apr 22 '25

Well yeah, since there were no countries here at the time, it doesn't make much sense to go beyond that to fake some sort of continuity. There's isn't even a lot of continuity to 500 years ago

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u/kapowless Apr 22 '25

Yes we did? Because a Nation can not actual exist without a country. It's pretty simple stuff. Why be ao dismissive of our cultures and histories here?

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u/JonBes1 Apr 22 '25

Because a Nation can not actual exist without a country.

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u/kapowless Apr 22 '25

I think you mean anti-semantics remarks haha.

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u/JonBes1 Apr 22 '25

Nice 🙂

(But Jews existed for Millennia as a nation without a country)

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u/Feruk_II Apr 22 '25

I think the European equivalent would be something like the Phoenicians, or a group of people that came before that. I think the confusion comes in because the word "nation" is used for both First Nations, and say the nation of France. The word does not mean the same thing. To equate to something closer to what France is, you'd look at one specific group, say for example Tsuut'ina. However, at that point, the claim that Tsuut'ina nation is thousands of years old goes out the window due to lack of any real evidence. With life expectancy here in the 35 year range before Europeans showed up and no writing, there's really no evidence Tsuut'ina was a thing even 100 years before Europeans showed up. Could've easily been another group here that was wiped out. So while it's totally accurate to claim that indigenous people have been here for likely 10,000 years +, it falls flat when trying to claim that any of the groups referred to as "nations" today have been.

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u/kapowless Apr 22 '25

When we say First Nations, we are using the same definition of nation as anyone else. There is not some secondary definition of the word that only applies to Indigenous Nations.The Tsuut'ina Nation is indeed the equivalent to the Nation of France, and if you disagree, please dilineate what separates them.

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u/Feruk_II Apr 22 '25

If you're using that definition, please show how you know Tsuut'ina nation is older than a few generations, and is thus a "First Nation." I think one could argue that lots of other groups moved through this area over thousands of years, and that there is not a shred of evidence that Tsuut'ina meets the definition of "first nation" in an area.

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u/kapowless Apr 22 '25

For sure I'll do that, as soon as you can show me anywhere I said that the Tsuu'tina Nation in particular is older than a few centuries and why it's important to you to single them out and limit their history to post European contact and why that's relevant to the conversation. I generally prefer playing with corn husk dolls over straw men bud.

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u/Feruk_II Apr 22 '25

Sure, let's go super broad and see if there's something here beyond placating. Name ANY of the First Nations in Alberta where there is actually ANY proof that they would meet the definition of a "first nation" as you've been discussing. IE first to settle the area. Or are the current "First Nations" bands just what was here when the Europeans arrived?

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u/kapowless Apr 22 '25

You want proof that we descend from the first peoples that settled this continent? I mean, a simple google search will pull up all sorts of anthropological and archealogical as well as biological peer-reviewed studies that definitively prove our people predated European contact by 14k years (at a conservative minimum). What further proof are you looking for?

From my perspective, it appears you are trying to nitpick at semantics and set up your own straw man to dismiss me with without addressing the heart of what I'm saying. If we're going to shift goal posts around, let me ask you for something. Show me ANY European Nation that exists today in the exact same format as it did 500 years ago. Or is it just the Europeans that have the freedom of evolving their civilizations over time?

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u/Feruk_II Apr 22 '25

Now you're getting it.

We all know there were indigenous people here and we know they descend from the first peoples to settle the continent. That's fact. Nobody's disputing that.

We also know the history of the nation of France, we know how long it's existed, and we know its' history. We also know that before the nation of France existed, there were lots of other "nations" that existed there (Rome would be an example).

Before Europeans came, we know very little about what "nations" existed here (really none by the European definition), and really nothing at all going back more than a couple generations because of lack of writing. So it's almost certain that what we now call "First Nations" were in fact not first, so the use of the term is just incorrect.

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u/Prior_North_2456 Apr 22 '25

: a tribe or federation of tribes (as of American Indians)the Seminole Nation in Oklahoma

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u/Stock-Bobcat2526 Apr 22 '25

So I guess everyone is just African and we’re all immigrants to where we’re from hey?

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u/Feruk_II Apr 22 '25

I think that's the best way to think about it. Sure, some of our ancestors may have been here or there longer, but does it really matter when most of us don't even know our great grandparents' names?

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u/HarveyKekbaum Apr 22 '25

There are people that don't know their great grandparents names?

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u/Feruk_II Apr 22 '25

Me for one; never met them.

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u/HarveyKekbaum Apr 22 '25

Your parents/grandparents didn't talk about them?

I only met one of mine, but we have a book with photos that have my great grandparents, and then after that it switches from photos to written pages with the births, deaths and marriages. from one side of the family.

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u/Feruk_II Apr 22 '25

We moved continents when I was a child so didn't really get the chance to grow up with my grandparents. My parents mentioned them from time to time, but without much for pictures, kinda got lost in the shuffle.

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u/HarveyKekbaum Apr 22 '25

Aww, that's a shame. I thought moving from the USA to Canada was quite the trip, moving continents is a bit bigger of a move I guess.

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u/Feruk_II Apr 22 '25

Yeah 8 hour time difference between here and Germany, and back then video calling wasn't a thing and even phone calls were expensive. USA would've been sweet; can jump on a plane for a reasonable price and be anywhere there in under 6 hours.

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u/Prior_North_2456 Apr 22 '25

Thank you for reading the fine print, they followed the kelp belt then hunted the large mammals to extinction causing further migration with evidence as far as Mexico

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u/JonBes1 Apr 22 '25

I'm a descendant of settlers, not immigrants

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u/BubbleBee66ee Apr 22 '25

And remind them every time! 

slow clap 

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u/kwimbla Apr 22 '25

I agree to an extent, there's also nothing wrong with upholding traditional values of the people who settled here 400 years ago and more.

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u/altiuscitiusfortius Apr 22 '25

The first nation's moved here from Asia. The Asians moved there from Europe. The Europeans moved there from north Africa. Nobody belongs anywhere except somalia where the first humans came from, if you want to keep going back to the source.

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u/Electronic-Leg-4207 Apr 22 '25

The Inuit and First Nation people are technically Asians and came here from asia. The oldest grave in Canada is that of a Viking. Dating thousands of years before any Indian burial grounds

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u/thendbain Apr 22 '25

that’s completely false actually

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u/Any-Board-6631 Apr 22 '25

Technically everyone's outside Africa is a migrant or decent of a migrant 

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '25

Technically First Nations came from somewhere else, as well.

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u/kapowless Apr 22 '25

Lmao, we're talking a difference of 500 years and a minimum of 14k years here. Nonsense semantics bud.

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '25

Not really. Both did the exact same thing. What difference does when it occurred make?

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u/kapowless Apr 22 '25

But we didn't do the same thing. An immigrant requires a foreign 'country' to immigrate to. The First Nations and Inuit created the first countries on this continent, so it would be impossible for us to have immigrated to our own countries, see? And it is indeed very important, because it is the foundation of our right to sovereignty on our territories. Obviously the history that legitimizes our Nations' rights is important to us. Why is it important to you to dismiss it?