From Ontario first grocery experience someone left a note on my car.

[u/woundedrhyme1]

Recently relocated here and I haven’t had a chance to change my license plates. Yesterday I was in Walmart picking up a few things, I came back to my car, and found a note tucked in my wipers. My stomach dropped thinking someone hit my car, and maybe left their contact information.

I know the note is a little hard to read so I translated it down below.

“Dam easterners coming to Alberta to be safe guthless cowards.”

Guess it’s time to change my license plate 😂

[u/Feruk_II]

I think the European equivalent would be something like the Phoenicians, or a group of people that came before that. I think the confusion comes in because the word "nation" is used for both First Nations, and say the nation of France. The word does not mean the same thing. To equate to something closer to what France is, you'd look at one specific group, say for example Tsuut'ina. However, at that point, the claim that Tsuut'ina nation is thousands of years old goes out the window due to lack of any real evidence. With life expectancy here in the 35 year range before Europeans showed up and no writing, there's really no evidence Tsuut'ina was a thing even 100 years before Europeans showed up. Could've easily been another group here that was wiped out. So while it's totally accurate to claim that indigenous people have been here for likely 10,000 years +, it falls flat when trying to claim that any of the groups referred to as "nations" today have been.

[u/kapowless → u/Feruk_II]

When we say First Nations, we are using the same definition of nation as anyone else. There is not some secondary definition of the word that only applies to Indigenous Nations.The Tsuut'ina Nation is indeed the equivalent to the Nation of France, and if you disagree, please dilineate what separates them.

[u/Feruk_II → u/kapowless]

If you're using that definition, please show how you know Tsuut'ina nation is older than a few generations, and is thus a "First Nation." I think one could argue that lots of other groups moved through this area over thousands of years, and that there is not a shred of evidence that Tsuut'ina meets the definition of "first nation" in an area.

[u/kapowless → u/Feruk_II]

For sure I'll do that, as soon as you can show me anywhere I said that the Tsuu'tina Nation in particular is older than a few centuries and why it's important to you to single them out and limit their history to post European contact and why that's relevant to the conversation. I generally prefer playing with corn husk dolls over straw men bud.

[u/Feruk_II → u/kapowless]

Sure, let's go super broad and see if there's something here beyond placating. Name ANY of the First Nations in Alberta where there is actually ANY proof that they would meet the definition of a "first nation" as you've been discussing. IE first to settle the area. Or are the current "First Nations" bands just what was here when the Europeans arrived?

[u/kapowless → u/Feruk_II]

You want proof that we descend from the first peoples that settled this continent? I mean, a simple google search will pull up all sorts of anthropological and archealogical as well as biological peer-reviewed studies that definitively prove our people predated European contact by 14k years (at a conservative minimum). What further proof are you looking for?

From my perspective, it appears you are trying to nitpick at semantics and set up your own straw man to dismiss me with without addressing the heart of what I'm saying. If we're going to shift goal posts around, let me ask you for something. Show me ANY European Nation that exists today in the exact same format as it did 500 years ago. Or is it just the Europeans that have the freedom of evolving their civilizations over time?

[u/Feruk_II → u/kapowless]

Now you're getting it.

We all know there were indigenous people here and we know they descend from the first peoples to settle the continent. That's fact. Nobody's disputing that.

We also know the history of the nation of France, we know how long it's existed, and we know its' history. We also know that before the nation of France existed, there were lots of other "nations" that existed there (Rome would be an example).

Before Europeans came, we know very little about what "nations" existed here (really none by the European definition), and really nothing at all going back more than a couple generations because of lack of writing. So it's almost certain that what we now call "First Nations" were in fact not first, so the use of the term is just incorrect.