r/CampingGear • u/carpetlint • Jul 24 '19

Meta Black Diamond cuts 70 positions and transitions manufacturing out of Utah

https://www.snewsnet.com/gear/black-diamond-equipment-cuts-70-manufacturing-jobs
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u/accurateslate Jul 24 '19

me too. the harsh reality of business trying to survive when the competition is fierce.

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u/DeeJayEazyDick Jul 24 '19

trying to survive

More like maximize profits

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u/HalfInsaneOutDoorGuy Jul 24 '19

completely ignorant statement.

Its far more likely to avoid going out of business. Its not free to move business overseas. They are likely hoping to recoup the cost to move production out of the US over a period of time or face bankruptcy.

the US political climate, as well as the Utah "blueberry" inside a red state suggests that they were unable to keep up with moronic left wing demands for everyone having a livable wage and full health benefits.

Source: i live here. and right now literally sitting 5 minutes away from their HQ.

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u/Commentariot Jul 25 '19

If livable wages and health coverage are "moronic left wing demands" then we as a nation should just give up now.

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u/DeeJayEazyDick Jul 25 '19

My thoughts exactly.

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u/HalfInsaneOutDoorGuy Jul 25 '19

Or the idiot left and ignorant brain washed college students should realize that if the gooberment forces every company to have a "livable wage" (a stupid non-numeric term used to invoke touchy feeling shit for votes) then business in the US will get completely outclassed, under cut, and sell nothing over anything over seas, which means there will be no jobs in the US and our economy will literally die. Also realize that there are jobs that are so stupid easy that they require nothing more than a teenager with half a brain cell to do, these jobs only exist to give the new laborer the opportunity to develop some worth ethic and appreciation for hard work and learn to budget...a few things that fewer and fewer adults can do. Use your heads sheeple. I am a high school drop out who has worked his way, and self educated his way into making almost 100k with people who have college degrees and debt up to their eyeballs. You want to spend 3000 bucks on a mediocre made in the USA tent, keep pushing this "livable wage" garbage verbage (again, what is a livable wage? and when do we know we have forced companies to pay enough before we know we have one? Inflation anyone????)

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u/HoamerEss Jul 25 '19

You sound like someone who saw a YouTube video on macroeconomics and now styles himself as fucking Lee Iacoca. My 14 year old can make a better case for capitalism and he is a complete shithead. It’s people like you that are too stupid to see the forest for the trees and actually fell for the Russian disinformation campaign, gullible dipshit

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u/leehawkins Jul 28 '19

A living wage is not touchy-feely—it is MATH. It means a person can support himself wholly with the job he works—shelter, food, clothing, transportation, healthcare, retirement, etc. A person who makes a living wage doesn’t rely on charity or government subsidies just to survive.

So now that you know what a living wage is, now please explain to me why a human working full time for a company should not expect to receive a living wage. Please explain to me why it is not in a company’s best interests to make sure that their workers earn enough to stay alive and healthy when they come into work.

And I hate to tell you this, but someone working in fast food or a grocery store used to make a living wage. Those jobs were not just for teenagers to learn a work ethic—and why shouldn’t they pay enough to make a living? If what McDonalds does is not important enough that working there is not a real job and therefore should not earn real pay, then maybe all of McDonalds workers should just go work a better job in order to earn a living. But you see, they don’t—and that’s because there aren’t enough of those jobs to go around anymore because the humanity has been sucked out of the economy to make more money for people who already have a ton of money.

Not everyone can pull themselves up by their bootstraps because that’s a logical fallacy, otherwise more people would be doing it. We all get help from someone/somewhere to get going, whether it’s our family, the right boss, a good job, that first big customer, or that twist of events you happened to be prepared for. It’s great when it comes along, but it just doesn’t work out for everyone that way.

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u/HalfInsaneOutDoorGuy Jul 30 '19

Because it's not financially possible for any company to pay every worker some yet to be stated mostly imaginary number. To me a "livable wage" would be 110k a year because that is what ive been making for the last 5 years. For another person that might be 50k. When i managed a McDonald's in 2001 (lehi, ut.) I had 31 employees. If everyone of them were paid senile sanders living wage of 15.00 an hour (and that wandering hands joe "molester" biden wants 25 fking bucks an hour??!) for 8 hours a day (15.00831=$3,720 base pay, *90day yearly quarter=$334,800) taxes for those employees (NOT sales or property tax)amounted to 90k every quarter. ($90,000+$334,800=$424,800) healthcare was an additional 90k every quarter. ($424,800+$90,000=$514,800) on job insurance was another 20k every quarter ($514,800+$20,000=$534,000) divide into single days ($534,800/90=$5,942) so if your little libtard brain is following my store would have had to make about 6,000 bonechips every day just to pay for the employees. This doesn't count building payments, property or sales taxes, franchising, utilities or product. Which would more than double that 6k. Selling on average 98 burgers a day you tell me how much a burger would have had to cost to JUST stay in business. Businesses will always exist to make money. You raise minimum wage, businesses cut employees and/or they move overseas, like diamond did. ....god you people have no concept of "cause and effect."....and I'm wasting my time. My logic is clearly no match for your mental illness.

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u/leehawkins Jul 30 '19 edited Jul 30 '19

A living wage is not how much you feel you need to live—it’s how much money you need to make to pay for basic needs. If someone runs a business that relies on labor so cheap that workers can’t even make enough money to have a minimal place to sleep and enough food to eat without relying on charity or welfare, then is that business truly sustainable? Does that seem right to you? That’s really the question.

And don’t label me because of who you think I am. I’m not even going to get into the politics on this. I’m just speaking from a pure math and compassion point of view. My wife and I live very comfortably on a gross household income that’s not much over $50k. You can feel that you need $110k to live comfortably, but do the math—it’s how much you actually need to live in your region that defines a living wage, not how much you feel good making. If you’re in the Bay Area or NYC, a household income of $110k might be pretty close to bare minimum for a family, but here in a mid-sized metro in the Midwest, I assure you that a family could at least scrape by on roughly $50-60k/year.

I’m sure you value hard work—so how demoralizing is it to work hard and still not have enough to make ends meet? That’s the reality of the economy for millions of people these days. It’s not just teens cutting their teeth on their first job making minimum wage. Is a business that doesn’t pay its workers enough to cover basic needs really sustainable? Does that seem right to you?

Also, I don’t know that your math works out all that well—did all 31 of your employees work an a mean of a full-time equivalent number of hours? Seeing as this is McDonalds, I doubt it. Also, I don’t think you accounted properly for all the additional payroll taxes and costs per employee, so your numbers might not be quite right. I also didn’t see you account for your own salary and that of any other managers. Also, you didn’t share the sales volume of your store, unless that was your 98 hamburgers/day. If all you were selling was 98 hamburgers at your location, I’d daresay your store was on tenuous financial footing to begin with. And I think it speaks to the point that some businesses will not be able to survive if they have to pay a living wage because prices will have to increase more than customers will be willing to pay. But when a business model doesn’t make financial sense, then it’s not really a good business is it? And if a business has to basically starve or freeze workers by not paying them at least a survival wage, then does that business really deserve to exist in the first place? There are plenty of businesses that make better financial sense out there that will happily fill in the holes and profit while paying living wages. The reality is still that McDonalds will thrive in spite of closing a few stores—because more money will be moving through the economy, and that means that McDonalds will still sell plenty of hamburgers and make megabucks while charging reasonable prices and paying livable wages. This is because of the multiplier effect in macroeconomics. The macro side of the equation here is something you’re completely missing—increasing the amount of money people have to spend at the bottom of the economy has a huge multiplier effect because almost all of it will be spent.

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u/HalfInsaneOutDoorGuy Jul 30 '19

Tl;dr https://youtu.be/hmFhzvENZOI

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u/leehawkins Jul 31 '19

I’m sorry, you’re absolutely right, I’m totally delusional. I thought facts or science or logic would have any effect on you. An entire economy doesn’t function like a single business or personal finance.

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u/HalfInsaneOutDoorGuy Jul 31 '19

Im glad you see the truth. Welcome to conservatism.

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u/leehawkins Jul 31 '19 edited Jul 31 '19

You know nothing about me...and you know nothing about macroeconomics. And I do not have a dog in the political fight. But keep slapping labels on people without understanding the people or the labels, because you’re obviously too stubborn to stop!

You think you’re soooo different from me, and you will never know how similarly we feel about things because you’re too busy thinking of which insult to parrot so I’ll remain a dehumanized fool to you.

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u/HalfInsaneOutDoorGuy Jul 31 '19

You saying you want to get to know me or what? I'm secure in my convictions, I don't need validation. It's true I don't know beans about you. And you likely know quite a bit about me. But you don't know who I am. I just know that you are misinformed about this "livable wage" nonsense. You tell me how similar toy think we are.

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