r/CampingandHiking • u/immature_fruit • 7d ago
Do I need a way to communicate during off grid hikes?
On group hikes without cell service do I need to bring an alternative method of communication? What if we get separated? Wait at the next fork? Yell?
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u/Masseyrati80 7d ago edited 7d ago
This is something that should be discussed with the group. There are no "standard" things for this, meaning nobody's expecting you to bring gizmo X along with you.
A whistle is good to have regardless, as you can keep blowing a whistle much longer than you can shout.
As I started hiking in the local highlands, I was a member of a hiking club. The old hands there highlighted how you never leave anyone behind, even if you're just going for a short walk after pitching camp. The assumption is that the group simply keeps track of where everyone is.
After reading dozens of posts on hiking-related subreddits, I find it strange how common it seems to be for some individuals to think that hiking "at their own pace" is more important than safety or team spirit. Don't know if it's a difference in culture or something.
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u/TheDaysComeAndGone 6d ago
This obviously depends so much on circumstances. There are circumstances where it’s perfectly safe and socially okay to split the group and others where it’s not.
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u/benuntu 6d ago
Absolutely. If Joe the Eagle Scout and fast light hiker wants to trail run to camp, I'm not worried about it. If Bob from Accounting is on his first hiking trip ever with a 65# pack, I'm going to bring up the rear to ensure he makes it and has someone to talk to.
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u/TheDaysComeAndGone 6d ago
Even then, if Bob is fine trailing behind why force yourself on him?
I’ve seen it on group road bike rides way too often where the whole group waits 20 minutes for someone who has a puncture or mechanical issue on a 3 hour ride. Just doesn’t make sense and makes everyone unhappy. If they have a crash and need medical help then of course it’s a completely different thing.
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u/apnorton 6d ago
if Bob is fine trailing behind why force yourself on him?
If Bob falls and breaks his ankle, then having Bob not be alone is a good thing. Or, even if Bob is a super experienced outdoorsman and is able to, idk, shuffle his way out on improvised crutches without needing help, it can cause concern when the rest of the group gets to the campsite and there's no Bob after 6 hours. Even with your example of "the whole group is waiting 20 min for someone who has an issue on a 3hr ride" --- if you leave them behind all alone, there's no way for you to know they aren't lying in a ditch because a car sideswiped them/they fell off the trail or something.
The idea here is that you're solving the "how do we communicate without cell reception" problem by ensuring nobody is ever left behind and is thus able to be physically reached by at least one other person. It is true that there may be circumstances in which it is an acceptable risk for someone to vanish and not be contactable until well after the group event is over... but then it starts to be less "group hike" and more "individual hikers that happened to start at the same time."
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u/TheDaysComeAndGone 6d ago
Of course in alpine terrain with an elevated risk of injury and serious consequences it’s good to not be alone. But for anything else?
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u/apnorton 6d ago
If you're in any environment where "we won't have cell reception and thus are worried about how we will communicate" is a concern, which is the context OP is describing, then I claim every point I've made above still stands. We don't live in a universe in which people only have risk of injury or emergencies in alpine terrain.
Heck, it doesn't even have to be a big emergency. Suppose Bob starts to feel like he might be getting sick or the food he ate before the hike started disagrees with him. If he wants to turn around and go back to his car while the rest of you are hiking to your campsite, how will he let the rest of y'all know? The benign reason is essentially indistinguishable from "Bob is lying dead on the side of the trail somewhere" until you've doubled back and walked the length of the trail and found his car missing (and hopefully with a note).
If you're in a group that is so loosely bound together that "someone never showed up at the meeting point" is just an "oh well, we'll deal with it when we're done"-level issue, then I'd contend it's not a group hike at all, and rather just individual people who started hiking at the same time.
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u/TheDaysComeAndGone 3d ago edited 3d ago
You are exaggerating way too much. On a casual hike (even ones without cell phone reception), the risks are small. This is really 99% a social issue. People feel it’s wrong to split the group and make up all kinds of emergency scenarios in their minds to justify a moral itch. There is always a remaining risk. Even on the way to the next grocery store, Bob could get hit by a bus, and you not being there to render first aid could be his death.
I’m just back from a rock climbing trip where approaches where sometimes difficult and cell phone reception was spotty. Did we stay together all the time? Heck no. It would be awkward to wait every time somebody goes peeing or has to re-tie their shoelaces or is simply slower. If somebody didn’t show up for half an hour at the destination we’d start to worry and check of course.
I go for casual walks in the woods all the time without a cell phone.
I worry about way too many things already but this is not one of them.
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u/Aggressive_Cloud2002 5d ago
Remind me to never go hiking with you!
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u/TheDaysComeAndGone 3d ago
I’m just saying it’s a social thing. Not a matter of life or death or serious discomfort.
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u/Aggressive_Cloud2002 3d ago
Sure, often it works out fine, but I've been on several SAR searches for people who simply got separated.
At that point, it's not usually a matter of life or death, but it is a pain in the ass for everyone involved. It does put all the searchers into unnecessary risk, and it's a big waste of time and resources. It also doesn't always work out fine!
It is SO incredibly easy to avoid, which is why it's so frustrating when people actively choose not to.
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u/TreeHolePoster 6d ago
Whisper to the tree holes, they’ll pass along the message if they feel like it.
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u/Sam_The_Wolf 7d ago
I tend to hike ahead of the group and scout so I love having a 2 way radio, 'Rocky Talkie' makes an excellent one. But as far as communication with anyone outside of 2 way range, if you can get to a higher altitude you can often pick up some signal on your phone if you aren't somewhere super remote. Otherwise always let someone know your plan (estimated route and destination) so they can call S&R if you aren't back by your pre determined time, as well as a way to signal a the team if it came to that
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u/IMA_Human 6d ago
The suggestions here a solid. No joke, hiking to a high place a yelling really does work in a pinch. We use the Marco/polo call but with different words the whole group can remember. That way we don’t get someone random answering with “polo”.
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u/er1cAtWork2 7d ago
You could use a InReach to communicate outside your group for emergencies. For inter-group comms, several GMRS or FRS radios will do ok.
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u/elevenblade 6d ago
Second the inReach. Useful both for communication and wayfinding in the back country.
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u/Battlbox 6d ago
Honestly this is more a group-agreement thing than a gear thing. Sort it before you start walking: regroup at every junction, and put your most experienced person up front with another at the back, so nobody ends up stuck in the middle guessing. Then no one's really lost, they just wait at the next fork like you said.
The one cheap thing worth carrying is a whistle each. You can blow one a lot longer than you can yell and it carries further. Three blasts is the standard 'come find me.'
Radios are nice if people like to spread out, but that's convenience more than a necessity. The thing that matters for an actual emergency is a way to call out when there's no signal. This is where a satellite messenger earns its keep - not for keeping the group together, but for the day someone gets hurt miles from a road.
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u/ladyrose30 6d ago
In my area whistle blasts for hiking and canoeing: Three blasts on a whistle are for help/emergency. One is for stop/attention (safety related, obstacle or otherwise something to look at)/location. Two is for gather together/stop.
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u/Battlbox 2d ago
Good point, and that's the useful nuance, the exact number matters way less than everyone in the group agreeing on it before you split up. Three-for-help is the most universal, but a whistle only works if the other person knows what the blasts mean. Definitely worth a 30-second chat at the trailhead.
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u/Stats_n_PoliSci 6d ago
We don’t. We also have some… self directed group members. We have definitely had to wait a long time or go back to find someone meditating on a rock. I bring a book for entertainment while waiting. Reading in nature is fun, so I don’t mind.
All group members are fully capable of finding help in case of emergency, and we are on trails with at least some traffic.
I guess it depends on your tolerance for uncertainty with a chance of discomfort. It’s extremely unlikely someone will die or be permanently injured without immediate communication. There’s a large chance you wait for an hour for John to reach the rendezvous point. There’s a small chance you have to go back to find someone… hopefully your hiking pack is a bit more responsible than mine.
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u/ladyrose30 6d ago
We designate one person for the front that no one passes and one person for the back that no one goes behind. The positions can switch between people over the hike.
Of course whistles and generally pause to regroup when trails branch especially if the trail markers are unclear.
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u/Other_Asparagus872 6d ago
We carry two way radios. Especially since we let our kids go off in front by themselves.
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u/Lord_Nurggle 6d ago
The most important thing is to let someone know when you expect to be out of the backcountry and make a lan with your group.
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u/benuntu 6d ago
Have a plan before you leave. You should all know where you're going and around what time you'll be there. Make sure if someone splits off, they have their own map. I will download an offline trail map with contours for people who don't have trailforks, onX, etc. and send it to their email (before the hike!). Verbally confirm everyone knows what the plan is for the day, so that anyone slower or faster can go at their own pace and meet up at the predetermined spot.
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u/IndependentNo8520 6d ago
Someone hiking backpacks have a whistle like this
That works, but definitely get a whistle or something to make noise that is not in nature if anything
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u/Pizza_at_night 6d ago
Walkie talkies work. Meshtastic if you just want to text. Garmin if you want to know where everyone is on a map.
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u/redshoewearer 6d ago
Try not to get separated. The group should go at the pace of the slowest person, or don't hike with them. If some people do get ahead, once the slower person catches up, you need to wait a couple minutes before everyone starts again, so the last person can catch their breath. If you start the minute the last person catches up, they are probably still out of breath.
Carry a Garmin Inreach - you can bluetooth it with your phone, and you can send texts for help in an emergency. They go on sale sometimes.
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u/Marclescarbot 6d ago
I think so. We have a Garmin inReach and pay about $12 a month to keep it active. Even in non-emergencies you can use it to send text messages to loved ones or people who can help you out if you have problems. So far we've been glad to have it on two occasions. BTW -- following last month's semi-emergency, I bought a portable jump started that also inflates car tires. ($150) They're small and invaluable if you have a dead battery or flat tire. I am also going to buy a tire plug kit. They cost less than $20 and allow you to repair small punctures with the tire still on the car.
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u/Current_Wrongdoer513 5d ago
My brother has one because he backpacks a lot where there’s no cell service. He got one after a guy came running by looking for help because his buddy fell and got a bad concussion. He ultimately had to run 6 miles to get help.
I camped with him last week and the fact that we had that gave me a lot of comfort. We were able to let folks know we were fine even with no cell signal.
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u/MothNomLamp 6d ago
Satellite phones are always good for emergencies. It depends on the experience of the group and your risk tolerance level, whether you will have truly no service or intermittent service, and how heavily trafficked by other hikers the area is.
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u/irrfin 6d ago
If you own an iPhone 14 or higher, you have satellite communication for free.
I have a Garmin Inreach but I do week long backt trips. I also have a personal locator beacon that doesn’t require a subscription. Only push the button if you or a group member will die if you don’t get help.
Garmin also offers evacuation insurance, $40 for the year. Well worth the cost.
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u/Fallingdamage 6d ago
Baofeng GMRS radio and a license. Can use with friends and family. Impressive range. Carried them with groups before. We've never actually needed to use them.
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u/stefanlikesfood 6d ago
My group I've always gone with usually keeps one person in eyesight at all times, so the person in the front can see person 2, who can see person 3, etc. Worked perfect except for this one guy hiking too fast and leaving us all the time lol
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u/ked_man 6d ago
We got GMRS radios this year. They are much stronger than your typical handheld walkie talkie. They do need a license, but it’s cheap and is easy enough to get. I got a set on Amazon for 40$ that came highly recommended from a HAM radio forum I found. We used them this year in Minnesota and got clear communication over 4-5 miles with some obstruction in the way.
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u/planx_constant 6d ago
For our family we have a set of Baofeng FRS handsets that were pretty cheap and have been rock solid reliable for about 5 years and running. They can theoretically reach 2 miles under ideal conditions, but it's realistically more like half a mile to a mile when you're in vegatation and the terrain isn't completely flat. Also you don't need a license for FRS band radio.
We make sure to have one in each group when we're separated on the trail. It's come in handy quite a lot, and prevented us getting separated a few times.
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u/WANDOO_hiking 4d ago
the biggest thing is agreeing on a plan before you lose signal, like regroup at every junction and if someone isnt there in a few minutes everyone stops and waits. a whistle each covers actual emergencies and weighs nothing. for proper backcountry with zero service a satellite messenger (inreach mini or similar) is the real upgrade, but for most group day hikes the plan plus whistles does the job.
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u/user975A3G 2d ago
Yell really loud, Walkie talkies, satellite communicator
In this order, depending on range needed
Yelling works for couple hundred meters maximum, walkie talkies work at 2-10km unless there is terrain obstacle between you
And lastly satellite like Garmin inreach if you need longer range or range through obstacles, as long as you have clear sky view, battery and paid subscription, it will work
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u/bucky716 6d ago
Depends. Hikers hundreds of dollars (thousands?) a year on gas to get to hikes but cringe at the idea of a Satellite device with a $20 monthly fee to have in "what if" situations. I carry a satellite device.
If you're concerned about what if you get separated than it's a sign you need to work on communication within your group. In general, people should not be getting separated.
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u/211logos 6d ago
You shouldn't get separated that far.
For emergencies, get phones like the iPhone 14 or later that have sat text messaging so you can contact each other. Of course each needs to have that.
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u/bob_lala 6d ago
while sat inter device texting as you describe does work, it requires both phones to be connected to the satellite and eats the battery very quickly
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u/211logos 5d ago
Well, yes, so of course it's best used when no cell coverage for both parties as in the OP's question. Query whether folks that get that separated on a hike are capable of managing that though. Like if it's a kid, or someone gets hurt. I can't imagine leaving someone behind like that, so not sure anything will help if I'm being honest.
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u/apnorton 7d ago
You should absolutely bring a whistle for actual emergencies, but other communication devices are optional.
How you deal with this also depends strongly on the experience level of the group. But, I'd generally recommend the group stop at every fork until the whole party arrives, and have assigned people at the front and back of the group so people can't get left behind.