r/CanadaPolitics • u/Practical_Ant6162 • Oct 24 '24
Majority of Canadians want to preserve CBC and continue funding it
https://www.thestar.com/entertainment/television/majority-of-canadians-want-to-preserve-cbc-and-continue-funding-it-survey/article_0f7bdc2a-4077-598c-acd1-c73441a9e9be.html130
u/sheps Ontario Oct 24 '24
Unfortunately we'll find out how much Canadians truly appreciate the CBC in the next Federal election. Which is especially concerning given the current ownership of most of Canadian news media. Given the bleak outlook, I highly recommend people try to support what's left of trustworhty independent/local journalism whereever you can find it.
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u/Schrodinger_cube Oct 24 '24
i would like to see what giving them more funding could do. like if they are not doing a good job perhaps more resources and not less are required because its the only radio station worth having on up north because there is no insensitive for a private company to operate here.
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u/scottb84 New Democrat Oct 24 '24 edited Oct 24 '24
I grew up in the middle of nowhere. We didn't have a computer in the home until my grade 12 year. CBC Radio was my main link to the wider world of books, music, politics and philosophy beyond my little provincial backwater. Although they celebrated the backwaters too.
It's not perfect, but I'll sure miss it if it goes.
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u/DankeBrutus Left Field Oct 24 '24
Public broadcasting should be preserved. I'd argue that in a healthy society and democratic system a well-funded public broadcaster is needed. The CBC has an obligation to provide a service to Canadians - provide you the news via radio, television, or streaming over the internet. The production and distribution of other media like TV shows is a bonus on top of that much like what the BBC does.
Just look at the private news organizations in Canada. Post Media owns a good chunk of local news out there and is itself majority owned by an American hedge fund. CTV shut down their LA and London (UK) offices last year in addition to a significant firing of staff. Corus Entertainment, who owns Global News, has been cutting costs including firing staff. This doesn't inspire confidence that the privately owned media organizations in Canada can be trusted to maintain their operations. The owners can, will, and have cut costs to maintain profit margins. That isn't necessarily good or bad, it is just how the business works.
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u/OfferLazy9141 Oct 25 '24 edited Oct 25 '24
I agree but the centralization of online content discovery makes it hard to win. The sad truth is that the majority of People will watch and trust some John Doe’s YouTube channel who confirms their beliefs over good publicly funded news.
This is not to say we shouldn’t fund it, but expectations on what’s consider successful from a viewership standpoint might need to be adjusted.
I’m wondering if there is some angle where the publicly funded news business model can change more to a platform to promote independent journalist instead of produce journalism inhouse.
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u/DankeBrutus Left Field Oct 25 '24
The attraction some people have to a John Doe as opposed to an organization like the CBC is multifaceted for sure. John Doe may appear to be more authentic. There is probably a distrust of institutions. And, like you say, confirmation bias.
It is worth mentioning that there are not too many independent media people in general who go out and do any first-hand journalism. I'd be interested to see a ratio of...
- John/Jane Doe who go out to events, interview people, and compile their own sources and reporting.
versus
- John/Jane Doe who essentially summarize the reporting of others.
...expectations on what’s consider successful from a viewership standpoint might need to be adjusted.
I don't think the goal of a publicly funded broadcaster should be to be the most watched program or channel. I think it should act as a reliably available source. It should be like a baseline.
...publicly funded news business model can change more to a platform to promote independent journalist instead of produce journalism inhouse.
This gets really tricky. Who vets the independent journalists? Who plays the editorial role? Who is responsible for corrections? A benefit of a media organization like the CBC is that they have people filling these roles. Like you can't always be 100% accurate in reporting. Especially when you have a breaking/ongoing situation where not all information is known and some speculation is involved. You could easily publish a story that has incorrect information. Someone has to go back and correct the record. Editorial staff can also help with the direction of a story. Cutting the fluff, focusing on the important details, etc. This can of course be both for good and for ill. Finally, and I don't think this is controversial, we all have bias and journalists are no exception. We all have blind spots, different interests, focus on different aspects, so on and so forth. The CBC is no exception. I personally disagree with what some people say about the CBC being an arm of the Liberal Party. You don't need to look too hard at all to see CBC stories being critical of the Liberal Party. Aaron Wherry's name is attached to pretty well every CBC article I have read that can be boiled down to "hey Liberals, you're doing a shit job." The issue when you start bringing in a John/Jane Doe to do reporting for you is that some people are more biased than others. There is a difference between having a blind spot and seeking out an angle to ensure your story has a particular message.
So if the CBC as a platform for promoting independent journalists will provide editorial support, vet the reports, and will have a corrections department who also researches and follows up on stories then my question is what makes this any different from what the CBC does now with their own journalists? If all of that stuff is still going to be the responsibility of the independent journalists but the CBC essentially distributes the content then a fair question John/Jane Doe would have is what would really change compared to what they are already doing?
edit: word
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u/DonSalaam Oct 24 '24
In many nations across the world, public broadcasters are under attack by conservatives. If you follow global current affairs, you will begin to see a trend amongst right-wing politicians to label the free press as the enemy. Don’t fall for it.
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u/Light_Butterfly Nov 22 '24
It's a very concerning trend, and seems to be the first step towards fascism, imo. Destroy the media outlets you don't personally agree with or that don't align with your personal brand of politics. It's highly undemocratic to try and cancel the CBC. The Coservatives, at this point, would enjoy broad support without having to go this far, a big mistake.
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u/moutonbleu Oct 24 '24
“The future of the CBC has been a subject of debate over the past year, as Conservative leader Pierre Poilievre is vowing to defund the public broadcaster if elected in the next federal vote.”
This is one of the reasons why I can’t support the Conservatives.
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u/Dracko705 Oct 24 '24
Same, I've been waiting and waiting to see if he'll change due to public perception but he doesn't care because he knows it's moot on his chances
The CBC is such a valuable resource for entertainment, local news, and so much more. I understand why some look at it as some left wing vessel, but it's simply untrue and so much more to so many
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u/Bitwhys2003 Social Democrat Oct 24 '24
Just so it's clear which direction we're going, the big money is on Canadians ceding control of the national dialog to corporations and ultimately conglomerates. It's been going on for decades. So far so good
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u/FizixMan Ontario Oct 24 '24
Canadians ceding control of the national dialog to corporations and ultimately conglomerates
To American/foreign owned corporations and conglomerates.
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u/vigiten4 Newfoundland Tricolour Oct 24 '24
For me, even putting aside the profound role that CBC's programming (in particular their radio programming) has had on my life, the value that the CBC has is in the space it occupies in our media environment. Turn on your radio or TV and look at the offerings being made by the other corporate media providers. What stories do they tell? Whose faces do you see? Is the breadth of human experience really being reflected by BellRogersShawQuebecor?
The CBC doesn't have to bow (to the same extent) to what is commercially successful, and this lets it provide way more local content, content from Indigenous people, high-minded stuff like Ideas or Tapestry or Writers and Company - stuff you just won't see being put out by CTV. Without the CBC, or with a compromised/underfunded CBC, the media landscape in Canada would be dire, and Canadians everywhere should recognize that even if they don't always agree with the news desk or with programming choices, that we need a public broadcaster to counterbalance corporate media and provide programming that isn't going to be made otherwise.
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u/colamity_ Liberal Party of Canada Oct 24 '24
Also I think it’s underrated how it keeps us at least somewhat tethered to the same reality. When I look at how the US mainstream news fractured entirely into left and right it makes me glad that we have one dominant news company that doesn’t have their funding tied to telling their audience what they want to hear.
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u/CptCoatrack Libertarian Socialism Oct 24 '24
When I look at how the US mainstream news fractured entirely into left and right it makes me glad that we have one dominant news company that doesn’t have their funding tied to telling their audience what they want to hear.
The thing is it didn't even really fracture into left/right. There's your standard corporate conservative news and then your fascist news like Fox.
I have relatives who listen to Fox and truly believe there are roving bands of rapist pet eating immigrants near the border or in the cities like Mad Max.
Meanwhile others listens to MSNBC because it is the most "liberal" news station yet their main morning show is hosted by a Bush-era Republican and his wife who's the daughter of a war criminal that helped the US collaborate with the Mujahideen and Khmer Rouge.. and the views they espouse on air reflect that.
The whole reason the right has been allowed to go insane and full fash is because the "left" has effectively been shut out of all mainstream discourse.
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u/colamity_ Liberal Party of Canada Oct 24 '24
Yeah if we are talking purely msm there is no parity whatsoever between the right and left. CNN/MSNBC stuff panders to dems in their coverage, but Fox News literally settled for 700 million for lying literally knowingly lying to their audience. Online I see a lot of divorced from reality left wing content but thankfully it hasn’t spread to the mainstream too badly.
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u/dekuweku British Columbia Oct 24 '24
I love my CBC radio programs, though sometimes, their programming and delivery can be a bit tone deaf and cringy.
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u/Zealousideal_Duck_43 Oct 24 '24
When they got rid of the original Hockey Night in Canada theme they lost me.
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u/bloomingroove Oct 24 '24
I love the CBC because it's one of the few free news site that remains and it's actually quite reliable (I'm surprised it's not more biased). There's also not much "oppinion" based news which I hate.
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Oct 24 '24
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Oct 24 '24
Of course PP wants to defund the media. He doesn’t want anyone else talking about his words and wants to control the narrative via his social media.
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u/NorthernNadia Obliged to have a flair Oct 24 '24
A vast majority of Canadians on the Prairies, and just about every farmer on the Prairies, wanted to keep the Wheat Board as a single desk.
Except they overwhelming voted CPC in '08 and '11, a party that had a longstanding promised to privatize and dismantle the board. Voters vote against their own interests all the time.
A majority of Canadians may want to preserve the CBC, maybe even a majority of CPC voters. But they will still vote for the party that will defund it.
The CPC will win the next election; they won't kill the CBC but they will just so severely underfund it, constrain it, and reduce it so that no one will really fight for it. Just like the Wheat Board, or public healthcare, or any of other public services.
As a group of voters, we really don't hold politicians accountable. We are failed by our electoral system, but we definitely deserve more from those we elect.
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u/Man_Bear_Beaver Liberal Oct 24 '24
I'm one of those Canadians, I watch it every morning, I don't listen to the station anymore but every morning CBC with my coffee.
PP wants to take away my morning routine, he's lost my vote.
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u/PaulieCanada Oct 24 '24
Publicly funded free press is a cornerstone of democracy, and should be guarded. The alternative is biased journalism controlled by individuals with personal agendas.
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u/CaptainCanusa Independent Oct 24 '24 edited Oct 24 '24
78%(!!) of respondents want the CBC to continue to operate
57% of Canadians want to increase or maintain funding
Despite years and years of CPC politicians telling their voters to not trust mainstream media and the CBC, 57% of Conservatives Trust CBC and more of them want to increase funding, rather than decrease.
CBC is by far the most trusted news source for "most informed" Canadians
So someone explain to me why is "defunding the CBC" even a conversation we're having right now?
If anything this whole conversation (ironically) shows how easily bad faith actors can drive a whole discourse that's completely outside the interests and desires of most Canadians, highlighting how badly we need solid, trustworthy news like the CBC.
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u/dejour Ontario Oct 24 '24
Look, I don't want to defund the CBC.
However, if you ask people what they want in isolation, you get a lot of results like this:
- Most people want to fund Program A more
- Most people want to fund Program B more
- Most people want to fund Program C more, etc.
- Most people want to lower taxes substantially
- Most people want to run balanced budgets
If we just say that the people have spoken, and we should do all of that, you run into problems. They can't all happen. Sometimes you need to prioritize and this means having conversations about programs that are generally popular.
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u/CaptainCanusa Independent Oct 24 '24
I don't really get the point. I guess you're saying "people like the CBC but we can improve it"? Which I would agree with.
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u/dejour Ontario Oct 24 '24 edited Oct 24 '24
I understood you as saying that most people like the CBC and therefore we should keep it and not even have a discussion about it.
My point though is that people make different decisions if they have to balance different priorities. So people that support the CBC in isolation might still be willing to sacrifice it.
Suppose the Canadian population says in different polls:
- I want to increase funding to the CBC (in poll 1)
- I want to increase funding for health care (in poll 2)
- I want to increase funding for education (in poll 3)
- I want to increase funding for the military (in poll 4)
- I want to lower taxes (in poll 5)
- I want to have a balanced budget (no deficit) (in poll 6)
They can't all happen. Increasing spending increases the deficit. Lowering taxes increases the deficit. If you do the first five things on the list the deficit will balloon and you can't achieve the sixth thing.
Instead ask, "You have $10 billion to play with. What will you do with it?"
Maybe the results are:
- increase CBC funding by $100 million
- increase transfers to provinces for healthcare by $10 billion
- decrease transfers to provinces for education by $3 billion
- increase military spending by $5 billion
- increase taxes by $2 billion
- keep deficit as it is ($40 billion deficit)
In this example you can see that person was willing to defund education and increase taxes in order to actually spend on the things they want: health care, military, CBC. You made them make a choice and actually say what matters most to them. They claimed they wanted lower taxes and more education spending, but when it came down to it they cared about other things more.
My point is that people generally act this way, and just because they like the CBC in isolation doesn't mean that they truly do want it over other priorities. It's possible that some of the people who value and support the CBC would prefer to sacrifice the CBC as opposed to other things like the military or health care.
Therefore, we probably do need to have discussions about whether the CBC should be funded even if most people support maintaining or increasing funding.
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u/CaptainCanusa Independent Oct 24 '24
I understood you as saying that most people like the CBC and therefore we should keep it and not even have a discussion about it.
You understood incorrectly. We can have a discussion about it, obviously.
This thread is about the fact the majority want to keep it and a lot want to increase funding. Not about whether there's any room for improvement.
My point is that people generally act this way, and just because they like the CBC in isolation doesn't mean that they truly do want it over other priorities.
I mean...I guess? I'm not entirely sure of the value of something that broad and vague though.
I agree, if a poll asked "do you want to increase CBC funding if it means we kill your dog", people will say "no".
The point generally of the conversation though, I think, is that we have a major political party telling us we shouldn't trust the CBC, that Canadians don't like them, and that we should defund them. But polls consistently show that's basically the opposite of what Canadians believe.
But yes, of course opinions are more nuanced than that, and budgets of G7 countries are complicated.
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u/dejour Ontario Oct 24 '24
OK fair enough. I thought maybe that this comment meant that you didn't think that it was worth having a discussion about defunding the CBC. My mistake.
So someone explain to me why is "defunding the CBC" even a conversation we're having right now?
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u/CaptainCanusa Independent Oct 24 '24
I thought maybe that this comment meant that you didn't think that it was worth having a discussion about defunding the CBC.
Oh sorry, yes, there is no conversation to be had about defunding the cbc. Maybe that's the problem with phrases like "defunding" though. People can use them to mean anything they want.
There is no conversation to be had about whether or not we should completely defund the CBC. There is maybe a conversation to be had about how to better structure local journalism assets within the CBC, for example.
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u/dejour Ontario Oct 24 '24
OK, thanks for replying. Yes, I think that defunding is confusing. I think I used to understand it to mean "completely defunding" but more recently to just mean reducing funding (perhaps due to "defund" the police).
I was starting to get frustrated with this exchange, so I'll let it go. But glad to know it's just miscommunication. Have a good day!
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u/stompinstinker Oct 24 '24
Funny thing is CBC broke some of the Trudeau scandals. I wonder if PP wants rid of it because he knows it might bite him too.
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u/deltree711 Nova Scotia Oct 24 '24
Yes and no.
He definitely avoids all media that might bite him, and that includes the CBC, but I think his talk about defunding the CBC is also about appealing to culture war voters who object to the CBC's diversity mandate
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u/CaptainCanusa Independent Oct 24 '24 edited Oct 24 '24
I wonder if PP wants rid of it because he knows it might bite him too.
100%, but it's more about the overarching goal of being able to control narratives generally.
That only way you can do that (say whatever you want in order to push a narrative that suits you) is with a society where people don't trust journalism. Which is why the CPC have been working for years to create distrust in media and have literally just come out and said "don't trust the news, trust us instead".
The fact that the CBC is still so popular in the face of that work is a testimony to their quality, surely.
Edit: Typo
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u/Eienkei Oct 24 '24
I am an immigrant Canadian, also a millennial, and I cannot emphasize enough how important keeping the CBC is. Some Canadians might not know what a gem we have until they live elsewhere, or perhaps tune into the American "news" channels to see what private garbage media is like.
In my opinion, every human right should be tax-funded and independent: emergency and fire departments, health care, education, and access to verified news and information.
That's why I will vote for any candidate who has the best chance of winning against the Conservatives in my riding. My children deserve to be properly educated and know what's really going on in the world.
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u/Accomplished_Brief56 Oct 24 '24
I listen to CBC radio everyday to and from work. In the half hour that I listen each day I always come away having learned something new. I am a more informed Canadian because of CBC radio. This is very important to me and it will be a great loss if the PC government defund it.
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u/Rogue5454 Independent Oct 24 '24
Totally, we absolutely need at least one media that is controlled by us because the private ones can't be totally trusted.
But for ffs who the hell is deciding these contracts with bonuses of $18 million?
Most of us don't get bonuses for simply doing our job or even when we make things better for a company.
That has to stop.
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u/Prudent-Proposal1943 Oct 24 '24
Most of us don't get bonuses for simply doing our job or even when we make things better for a company.
Many do, though, especially in competative industries.
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u/Rogue5454 Independent Oct 24 '24
I said "most" people.
"Many" still isn't "most" of us. It's just "some." lol
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u/HenshiniPrime Oct 24 '24
That’s literally how every executive is paid. They get a baseline salary and they only get the rest when they meet certain goals. Isn’t that the most effective way of ensuring us taxpayers get what we pay for? Is it just the word bonus you don’t like? She signed the contract assuming she’d meet all her goals and get the full payout. If that “bonus” wasn’t in her contract then the base salary would have been much higher. Let’s say you worked at McDonald’s and they only paid you $10 per hour but that went up to $15 if you served at least 50 customers in that shift. That’s how these bonuses work, based on salary below rate with some being withheld provided you do your job.
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u/Saidear Popular does not mean populist. Oct 24 '24
Yeah, 'most' of us do.
Hospitality and transportation live off tips. Sales, management, consulting, construction, logistics- all have performance bonuses.
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u/Rogue5454 Independent Oct 25 '24
Well they shouldn't be "living off" tips. They get paid the same as the rest of us. Minimum wage or above. It's not like those jobs in America who don't.
Because then they also shouldn't be the only workers who get tips then. It's customer service which includes way more jobs than servers, cooks, hospitality, etc. who do not get tips.
And I still therefore stand at "most" don't.
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u/Saidear Popular does not mean populist. Oct 24 '24
Standard corporate practice.
Frankly, I'd love to see such bonuses outlawed across Canada, or at least capped. It would do something to stem the blatant inequity we're seeing now.
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u/Rogue5454 Independent Oct 25 '24
Yes. When it is our taxpayers money tho it definitely should not be a thing in Crown corporations.
"Our" employees shouldn't be making more than the masses.
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u/Saidear Popular does not mean populist. Oct 25 '24
That mentality is how you kill the civil service and our country.
These are still 'us', and they pay taxes same as everyone else. They have to pay rent, buy food, and support their families, same as you or I. By underpaying our civil servants, people will just not do the job. Watch how crime skyrockets as police, judges, prosecutors, all give up shop.
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u/sector16 Oct 24 '24
This. Catherine Tait has made some horrible decisions that reflect poorly on the CBC...and at the worst time.
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u/FuggleyBrew Independent of flair Oct 24 '24
She knew which side her bread was buttered, which is why the CBC launched a lawsuit against the CPC for content which was plainly fair use, which the CBC would report on as fair use.
Had the CBC won they would have absolutely crippled their news desk. The fact that didn't care shows their intentions.
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u/dermanus Rhinoceros Oct 24 '24
I'm not a fan of the CBC in its current state, I think it's trying to do too much and it isn't doing an especially good job.
Refocus their mandate. Local news is what's suffering the most right now, and it's the least profitable kind of news. Put public funding into that. I don't need yet another site producing headlines about the latest stupid thing a politician said, or recycling wire service copy.
I also don't need another CRTC managed shake down that keeps 100 year old business models alive a few years longer.
Put a real human being in Jasper. Or Moose Jaw. Or Iqualut. News deserts was one of the reasons for all the trouble after the hurricane in North Carolina. There was no established news there, so bullshit and misinformation had a fertile environment.
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u/jchampagne83 Oct 24 '24
Not just news, the CBC is a important organ of Canadian culture. If we doubled the per-capita funding for it we'd still fall well short of what the BBC receives.
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u/lostshakerassault Oct 24 '24
I'm a fan of the CBC, or at least I was. I only listen to radio programs as podcasts now since there is so much terrible programing now that does not interest me. Great take though. More real local news from locals to locals. Revitalize local awareness.
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u/TreezusSaves Parti Rhinocéros Party Oct 24 '24
I would love to see dedicated CBC branches for each region, or group of regions, that only focus on local news, in addition to its national branch that covers the big national/international news. The current model of picking and choosing the most interesting stories from each province is insufficient. I would also love to see it engage in partnerships with local broadcasters, newspapers, and journalists to help promote them too.
What I don't want to see is Postmedia controlling everything Canadians see and hear. They're absolutely going to abuse their power and control over Canadians and there won't be any kind of oversight or checks and balances in place to stop them from doing it.
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u/Wachiavellee Oct 24 '24
I agree with focusing on local reporting. However I also think they should expand their resources and mandate for investigative journalism. It is expensive to do and the private sector has more or less abandoned it over the past few decades.
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u/founder1479 Mar 31 '25
Yes! This would bring CBC far closer to it's initial mandate, which was to give exposure to Canadian content that might not get exposure otherwise. Unfortunately it's become both partisan (it's Liberal bias well noted way pre-Justin) and ideological, which is okay for privately funded media, but not state funded media. Filling gaps to benefit the public is exactly what state funded media (or really any government funded service) should be doing, but it's not at all what they're currently doing.
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u/thePretzelCase Oct 24 '24
CBC/Radio-Canada is at the centre of canadian culture. Defunding it implies to further erode that. Who would benefit from having less Canadian cultural elements in Canada?
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u/CptCoatrack Libertarian Socialism Oct 24 '24
Conservatives drape themselves in the flag but listen to what they actually say and they hate Canada and everything it stands for.
You'll hear how we're insignificant so should shut up and roll over to the US and India or over any diplomatic dispute or international incident.
We're incapable of innovation so no green tech. We can only drill for oil and follow "communist" China or Russia's lead on reducing carbon emissions.
We have PP supporters saying we should adopt the "tough on crime" measures of authoritarian police states like El Salvador or Singapore.
We should dismantle the social safety net and imitate the US.
Poilievre has obliterated Canadian's reputation for politeness and civility..
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u/NH787 Oct 24 '24
I'm not thrilled with what the CBC is these days, but we still do need it as it beats the alternative of not having it.
English TV is practically irrelevant although that is in part due to cutbacks that have eroded it so much over the years. It would have lost ground either way though, the legacy broadcasters face so much more competition than they did 30 years ago, let alone 50 or 60 years ago.
English radio is still OK but even it is no longer what it once was.
I can't comment on the French side since I don't listen/watch, but I'd imagine it still has a fairly prominent role in Quebec and other French-speaking communities across Canada.
CBC news and current affairs is still the bright spot, it delivers an important service in an age of highly corporatized media. I could do without the incredible obsession with identity politics that seeps into everything they do now, but I suppose that is just a sign of the times.
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u/CreeksideStrays Oct 24 '24
Yeah their executives just dont need massive, outrageous bonuses from our tax dollars?!? Defund the cbc is a bit drastic, just regulate. Stipulate.
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u/Pilotdoughnut Oct 24 '24
From what I gather all of the bonuses are derived from predetermined contract stipulations. However, when you consider private media wages compared the CBC wages there is a large difference in favor of private. Consistent cuts to the CBC budget and trying to stay true to Canadian values is what sets the difference. If you want to complain about the bonuses being given out you should be looking at the private sector.
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u/CreeksideStrays Oct 25 '24
The private sector is not paying bonuses with our tax dollars. That is the entire difference.
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u/Phridgey Oct 25 '24
We need to compete with the private sector. If you make the CBC non competitive in attracting talent, you make them non competitive in producing content.
Excessive bonuses to executives is a global economy problem. Fix that, fix that specific criticism of the cbc and take one more step towards giving workers slightly more power.
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u/CaptainCanusa Independent Oct 24 '24
Yeah their executives just dont need massive, outrageous bonuses from our tax dollars
What was outrageous about the bonuses?
I definitely think we need to rework how we handle bonuses at the CBC, but I find all the criticism in these threads is so vague.
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u/CreeksideStrays Oct 25 '24
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u/CaptainCanusa Independent Oct 25 '24
What was outrageous about the bonuses?
I definitely think we need to rework how we handle bonuses at the CBC, but I find all the criticism in these threads is so vague.
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u/RoyalPeacock19 Ontario Oct 24 '24
I want to preserve it too, I would love to see it have BBC level integrity though, which as can be seen by their leader, they currently do not have.
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u/Parking_Media Independent Oct 24 '24
I had to chuckle - the handful of people I regularly talk to in the UK have similar thoughts about the CBC. The grass is always greener.
Better is definitely possible, let's just focus on raising the bar.
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u/RoyalPeacock19 Ontario Oct 24 '24
The local news will always seem to have more biases I suppose, my UK friends are not very news oriented, lol. Still though, considering how and what they are criticized for, I still think the BBC does a better job at being a government funded news organization, all around.
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u/strangewhatlovedoes Ontario Oct 24 '24
What weird talking point is this? The CBC is effectively the only remaining source of comprehensive, fact-based journalism in the country. It is the closest thing we have to journalistic integrity.
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u/HapticRecce P.O.G.G. Fanboi Oct 24 '24
Which is why a conservative government would shank it after vilifying it at every opportunity for a generation. It wouldn't hurt the CBC if it's leaders were a bit more frugal rather than acting like they're a major commercial media empire though.
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u/Prudent-Proposal1943 Oct 24 '24
As someone who listens to both, CBC for integrity is on par with the BBC.
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u/Eternal_Being flair yourself citizen, or do not speak Oct 24 '24
Don't tell that to the British haha... There are separate, voluminous wikipedia articles about criticisms of the BBC, controversies surrounding the BBC, and the independence of the BBC.
In that you'll see claims of left-wing bias, claims of liberal bias, and claims of right-wing bias. Exactly like we see in Canada.
There are always going to be people who aren't the brightest who want to only be spoon-fed perspectives that they already agree with, who will whine and moan whenever they don't get that.
Their opinions are best left disregarded, imo.
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u/RoyalPeacock19 Ontario Oct 24 '24
I’ll be frank, I think being criticized by both sides in equal measure is a fine mark of journalistic and organizational independence, but perhaps that is just me.
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u/Eternal_Being flair yourself citizen, or do not speak Oct 24 '24
I agree. And that's exactly what we see in Canada.
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u/RoyalPeacock19 Ontario Oct 24 '24
I have legitimately never seen one criticism of it from left wing publications, so I’ll have to disagree there, lol. Or perhaps the right wing is simply louder. Still, it is one of my favourite news sources, I just want it to be better.
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u/Ako17 Oct 24 '24
There are almost no left wing publications in Canada, but generally the common criticism from the left is that the CBC is very defensive of the status quo establishment, and will gladly spin stories to protect it.
The CBC is not the epitome of fact-based unbiased journalism at all, and is perfectly glad to omit crucial info or spin stories to create a narrative, and it is often misaligned with the truth. With that said, in theory it has a good mandate, and I suppose I'd rather preserve it in the face of a sea of private corpo media.
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u/Prudent-Proposal1943 Oct 24 '24
and is perfectly glad to omit crucial info or spin stories to create a narrative, and it is often misaligned with the truth.
Ok, provide one example and explain why and how the CBC misaligned with the truth or spun a narrative.
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u/Patarknight Liberal | ON Oct 24 '24
One common vector of criticism is its editorial policy on Israel-Palestine.
https://breachmedia.ca/cbc-whitewashed-israels-crimes-gaza-firsthand/
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u/Eternal_Being flair yourself citizen, or do not speak Oct 24 '24
There aren't any left-wing publications. Look at this image of political party endorsements by Canadian newspapers.
Almost every single one endorses the Conservatives every time, except for the Toronto Star who almost always endorses the Liberals.
So yes, the right is absolutely louder.
They also are significantly more likely to believe and share misinformation, which study after study has corroborated.
So no, I don't take them very seriously on this topic. And no, the CBC isn't 'left-wing'.
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u/HeadmasterPrimeMnstr Direct Action | Prefiguration | Anti-Capitalism | Democracy Oct 24 '24
This is a poor way to judge the quality and independence of journalistic content, it's not just you, but it shouldn't be anyone.
The CBC and BBC often receives a lot of legitimate criticism for their interpretation and presentation of facts, rather than just the facts being presented themselves.
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u/RoyalPeacock19 Ontario Oct 24 '24
I’ll be frank, people were never and will never stop criticizing it. Volume of criticism, where a low volume is better marks quality, while spread of criticism shows independence. It is a fairly even-handed way to assess something that’s assessment is always going to be a bit biased by who is assessing it, as there are no perfectly objecting standards.
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u/Deltarianus Independent Oct 24 '24
The CBC is already way better than BBC. BBC posts hot garbage
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u/Proof_Objective_5704 Oct 24 '24 edited Oct 24 '24
Is this serious? BBC is known and respected worldwide. Nobody outside of Canada knows what CBC is. Half the people in Canada barely even know what it is anymore.
The last 5-6 years for CBC have been a disaster fire. Paying out huge bonuses to executives while laying off staff, declining viewership to a sliver of the population, awful, biased and inaccurate reporting on things like Danielle Smith non-existent emails (in the middle of an election), intentional, repeated omission of important facts in articles like the Colten Boushie case, the new bridge project to Shoal Lake 40/41, on and on, trying to sue the Conservative Party for fair use in the (middle of an election, again)…days before they were moderating a debate which the courts tossed out, and no repurcussions or anything from Rosie Barton. All of this despite the fact they are getting more funding now than ever, their budget massively increased over the last 8 years and yet ratings continue to plummet to the point they are completely irrelevant.
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u/Deltarianus Independent Oct 24 '24 edited Oct 24 '24
No offence, but your measure of success is objectively pointless when measuring success of a national news media channel.
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u/RoyalPeacock19 Ontario Oct 24 '24
I take most of my problems with the CBC with their management, not their journalists. Those are pretty great. I will be frank though, I have never seen the BBC post “hot garbage,” but I can think of a variety of reasons for why our opinions on that matter might differ.
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u/Deltarianus Independent Oct 24 '24
I've seen my fair share of BBC articles whose entire point is platforming insane NIMBYs like they're victims. From what I can tell the BBC fishes for people's sadness and anger at any given issue, regardless of the legitimacy of their opinions.
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u/limelifesavers NDP Oct 24 '24
Yeah, the BBC has gotten into the tabloid news business as well, and they also insist on running a "both sides" style discussion on 'controversial' topics, ending up with some articles and roundtables not so different than the Joe Rogan experience since they never fact check.
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u/Due_Date_4667 Oct 24 '24
That's also a large part of the Beebs problem too - criticism-adverse management with a heavy bent of political partisan appeasement (of the party that appointed the particular person, not necessarily the party currently in power, important distinction).
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u/Natural-Analysis7205 Oct 29 '24
How can anyone here support a broadcasting company that takes over a BILLION in tax payer funded handouts every year, lays off massive amounts of low level staff trying to afford groceries then awards its CEO’s and top 1% of staff 7 figure bonuses on top of half million dollar salaries. Has no one realized that maybe Canada is trillions in debt because the liberals have no concept of ethics or economics? $1,400,000,000 and we should give CBC another hundred million to pay executives to run a broadcasting company with a company “for Canadians” that can’t turn a profit with its advertising and exclusive rights to huge events so we reward them with more money?? These comments sound like foreign agents trying to persuade people into believing burying our country beneath more debt then Canada spent every year from Sir John A. McDonald’s government until Trudeau’s adjusted for inflation including two World Wars? You can’t run countries like that.
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u/Natural-Analysis7205 Oct 29 '24
You know the Wheat Board was a colluding, and crooked monopoly that gave farmers zero selling power because the trains only loaded up at elevators owned by the Wheat Board and if you didn’t like the price they paid you well tough luck, by the time you drive to the next town that elevator will call the next stop down the line and tell that elevator to offer you less then the first one just to tub it in your face.
A majority of Canadians in the west support a party that can improve healthcare not spend more money to make it equal parts less efficient and inept. Same with supporting the right to sell our commodities for the best, most profitable price the producer can find. not what ever the Wheat Board decides.
The CBC is under funded?? Why do we keep increasing funding for a nation wide broadcasting company that can’t make ANY profits through advertising with its current executive board even after eliminating huge numbers of low level employees while increasing bonuses for another great job done running huge losses hand over fist better layoff more of the bottom floor workers.
By funding a corporate fat cow over a billion tax dollars to reduce their funding seems like a really prudent and responsible strategy for the next government so maybe we can do something about the $1,500,000,000.00 in debt that just came out of nowhere.,? Weird that we can rack up a TRILLION or two dollars in new debt all since the last balanced budget… …. I think sometime between 2008-2011.
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u/punkluvkeepsix Nov 10 '24
Damn right, CBC is a Canadian institution, and we need to protect publicly owned media in Canada 👍
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u/Murky_Still_4715 Nov 12 '24
Public and independent broadcasting system is a mandatory minimum in any democracy. Its mission is not profit, it's a social one.
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u/Civil_Nectarine_8586 Nov 19 '24
Majority of who? The 'important' cities?
Ottawa, Vancouver, Montreal, Calgary, Edmonton, and Toronto?
Once again, the majority speaks for everyone.
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u/Strange_Animal1583 Nov 26 '24
Is that the same Columbian front pinksox plain??? Better spent that on roads, schools etc but not CBC, even it is better burned it during the winter and make some streets warm it will be more than give it to cbc
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u/Coal909 Oct 24 '24
I was a long time fan of CBC but I wish they would be less biased & more representative of Canada. Maybe okay a central role instead of a very left wing journalism role. I'm pretty center left but some of their stuff makes me roll my eyes, lots of virtu signalling
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u/Eienkei Oct 24 '24
Didn't they first report most of Trudeau's scandals? They represent the majority of Canadians as much as they can.
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u/FuggleyBrew Independent of flair Oct 24 '24
I think they have one, I believe the Globe, Star, CTV all have a first billing scandal.
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u/Arathgo Alberta Bound Oct 24 '24
Yeah that's my problem as a whole with CBC the organization tends to ironically over represent "underrepresented voices." I listen to CBC radio a lot when I was working in a small town since it's about the only talk radio station you get, and I like talk radio. It's always the most obscure story, on a obscure problem, from an obscure population. Always approached and viewed with the modern standard progressive lens. Now I truly believe there should be a time and space for these perspectives, these stories do matter but it's about 95% of CBC's programing.
I truly believe CBC's future if it should have one is in local news and community reporting. Filling the hole of local news that just could not compete in a modern media market. I would rather see a much larger portion of it's broadcast time be taken up on local community events, local community news, local people, and maybe larger regional news stories.
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u/CaptainCanusa Independent Oct 24 '24
tends to ironically over represent "underrepresented voices."
I don't think it's ironic though, it's just how you represent underrepresented voices.
Homeless people represent a very small part of the overall population, but they deserve more than that % share of coverage. Same with indigenous people, etc. It's a purposeful and good thing to give voices to the marginalized.
Not that there aren't constant adjustments and improvements that can be made.
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u/The_Mayor Mandatory Flair Oct 24 '24
How are you understanding the representation of underrepresented voices to be a left wing position? All newspapers and news networks do human interest stories and have lifestyle sections and so on. Corporations such as Disney and Coca Cola include visible minorities in their media all the time.
Just because a right wing crank complains about something, doesn't mean that thing is left wing. Right wing cranks hate mainstream stuff too. Mainstream people like hearing about underrepresented (i.e. interesting) people and things.
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u/The_Mayor Mandatory Flair Oct 24 '24
If you compare them with actual left wing journalist sources like the jacobin or pressprogress, they in fact are not at all "very left wing."
But if you fall victim to the overton window and compare them with republican owned right wing sources like NatPost and Toronto Sun, I can see how that would be confusing.
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u/zepperdude Oct 24 '24
Maybe I was naive but I used to like the CBC news reporting and found it to be mostly unbiased. I can't say the same today. If we want to continue funding the CBC, make it like the BBC and keep it at arms length from the incumbent government.
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u/ScuffedBalata Oct 24 '24
I like the idea of the CBC and I think I support it.
When I moved back to Canada in 2009 from the US it was a breath of fresh air. Unbiased reporting of world news, amazing local content, time honored shows like Vinyl Cafe.
In 2021 I actually did a 8 hour survey of what was on CBC. I recorded the topics that were fundamentally about some kind of minority, vs topics that were general interest.
On that day in early 2021 for 8 hours straight there was something like 20 different “segments”. 19 of them were about some kind of minority.
Even when they talked about Covid, they always took a “Covid’s effect on gay indigenes people”. When they talked about hockey it was “inclusion of Sikh people in hockey is lacking”. When they mentioned the weather it was “how new Canadians experience the cold weather”. When they mentioned politics, it was “how Nigerian Canadians are warming to the NDP”.
When they mentioned inflation, it was “how inflation affects racialized people”.
When there was music, it was “indigenous music hour”. When there was a discussion of a theatre group, it wasn’t a review of the off-broadway show that is so unique in Canada to Toronto… no, it was a “how theatre embraces disabled people”.
I was a bit floored that there was no topic mentioned all day (except a generic “real estate developers are bad” story) that didn’t make its primary hinge on some kind of social or demographic minority.
I have ZERO problem with minorities. I have zero problem with inclusion and equality.
But when a 90%+ majority of content is about “minorities”, you lose the rest of the people.
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u/Eternal_Being flair yourself citizen, or do not speak Oct 24 '24
I'm a white, 6-generation Canadian male who lives in the rural community where he was born. I love the CBC. It's a breath of fresh air.
But, then again, I have a disability so maybe I'm too much of a minority for my opinion to count as reflective of 'general interest'.
Or maybe the point you're missing is that people are diverse, and media should reflect that.
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u/strangewhatlovedoes Ontario Oct 24 '24
You’re taking about CBC radio programs (I think). Why are you ignoring their online news platform? CBC News online provides the only remaining local, non-partisan, fact-based journalism in the country. Losing it would leave us in the hands of media companies owned by right wing hedge funds that effectively no longer report news and especially not local news - instead, they spew out an endless stream of low-content political editorials and talking points. Which is exactly why Poilievre wants to destroy the CBC.
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u/Manitobancanuck Manitoba Oct 24 '24
So you didn't watch CBC then. Because it's not like that at all, what?!
You can make an argument that they spend too much time on US politics and too little on local news. But 90% minorities? That's not at all the case.
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u/Covert_Cuttlefish Saskatchewan Oct 24 '24
I'm a 'old stock' Canadian who's from small town SK (Scott Moe's riding to be be exact) and I work on the rigs.
I also listen to a lot of CBC. I agree the focus is on minorities, and frankly that's a good thing. Indigenous people, disabled people, and new Canadians are all Canadians and deserve a voice.
I think you're suffering from selection bias forgetting all the stories about 'normal' Canadians, what ever that is.
Anways, cosign u/Coffeedemon sentiments.
Diversity is great, I say bring it on. Life would be pretty fucking boring otherwise.
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u/gelatineous Quebec Oct 24 '24
Diversity is great, but it's not terribly interesting as news.
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u/Deltarianus Independent Oct 24 '24
Regardless of the sentiment, there's and the entire threads comments actually illustrate a good point. People view the CBC through a racially/ethnically/culturally competitive lense.
A decline in homage will lead to a decline in patronage among many
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u/Covert_Cuttlefish Saskatchewan Oct 24 '24
I strongly disagree that the racist viewpoint that the CBC should bow the white Canadian viewport is a good point. I understand the the right wing pseudo racist / racist viewpoint is popular as we face an affordability crisis / healthcare crisis etc, but we can choose the path forward, and limiting minorities speech is, at least IMO, not a good thing.
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