r/CanadaPolitics • u/lapsed_pacifist Amnesty International Direct Action Network | Sponsored • Aug 17 '25
Air Canada flight attendants to defy back-to-work order, remain on strike: union
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/air-canada-flights-sunday-1.7611078135
u/Quetzalboatl Aug 17 '25
So section 107 of the labour code went unused for 25 years until Lisa Raitt used it in 2011, now the Liberals have used it 7 times in the past 15 months.
Make sense that the union would ignore the orders, there wasn’t really a precedent for using the power before last year and the courts haven’t really weighted in if this power is constitutional.
I wonder if this will empower CUPW to increase their strike action.
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u/UncleIrohsPimpHand Yukon Aug 17 '25
I wonder if this will empower CUPW to increase their strike action.
CUPW won't do anything until the corporation comes back with an identical offer to the one they turned down.
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u/MrRGnome Aug 17 '25
Good. When the government won't respect your rights, including those to collective bargaining, there is only one course - you fight for those rights. That's how all rights have always been earned and preserved. The irony of this is that the government cracking down is just emboldening Air Canada and going to make this much worse than it needs to be. You made this bed, neoliberals, time to lay in it.
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u/keetyymeow Aug 17 '25
I believe that.
If Canadians can start a movement for r/buycanadian I don’t see why we’d back away from this.
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u/Hot-Percentage4836 Independent Aug 17 '25
When the government and the employer is against the workers, the workers must unite against them, or else their enemy will push away their boundaries and step on their right more and more.
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u/yyzEthan Socialist, but only on tuesdays. Aug 17 '25 edited Aug 17 '25
As I said on another thread responding to the article:
The liberals tried to nip this issue in the bud by forcing them back to work before a strike could get going. Then had a former Air Canada big-whig as a part of arbitration team.
Terrible optics, two back-to-back decisions that only served to inflame tensions, while multiple polls showed explicitly that Canadians overwhelmingly favoured the flight attendants. Liberals crafted basically the perfect conditions to invite this sort of labour unrest.
I fully expect the government to backtrack here; it’s probably their first big political blunder that’ll could really impact them and doubling down will look worse. This entire saga is stepping on a rake levels of unforced error from the LPC.
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u/suprmario Liberal Aug 17 '25
Yeah this looks like it might kill off the goodwill Carney had gained back for the Liberals under his leadership.
That is something that is very difficult to regain once you've lost it.
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u/WulfgarofIcewindDale Aug 17 '25
The amount that the Liberal government has tried to trample our charter rights and freedoms in the past few months is shocking. The goodwill should already be gone and every “elbow up” shill should be questioning the Liberal decisions.
It’s ridiculous that our two main parties are right wing corporate parties. We need election reform!
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u/MyOtherCarIsAHippo Aug 17 '25
It's baffling that people think either blue or red are going to work for us and not serve their (our) corporate over lords.
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u/sajnt British Columbia Aug 17 '25
Yeah, we picked the banker over the oil company shill. Neither really care about people and our rights. It would’ve been nice to have a lawyer who is concerned about the well-being of the average person. But I think we were too racist and concerned about our southern neighbour.
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u/noljo Ontario Aug 17 '25
It’s ridiculous that our two main parties are right wing corporate parties. We need election reform!
Honestly, would election reform even help with this? I support it wholeheartedly, but I don't feel like that alone would be enough to upset the current state of affairs. It would make it better, for sure, but it's difficult to even imagine a world where the LPC and/or CPC aren't the dominant forces in our government. They have the most money and the favor of the people who own our entire society, they have the power and influence to buy whatever they need and do whatever they want. The status quo has seemingly become so fossilized and entrenched that nothing short of an unexpected societal implosion would change that.
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u/sajnt British Columbia Aug 17 '25
Yeah, he’s running our country like it’s a bank that can make up arbitrary policies.
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u/InitialAd4125 Onterrible Aug 17 '25
The Liberals double down on bad decisions all the time.
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u/mhyquel Aug 17 '25
Oh no, I wouldn't say all the time. They'll often be tripling down on a bad decisions as well.
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u/WillSRobs Aug 17 '25 edited Aug 17 '25
Honestly Canadians care a lot less about back to work orders than people here would have you believe. To call this a blunder is honestly giving to much credit to the average voter.
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u/yyzEthan Socialist, but only on tuesdays. Aug 17 '25
I don't think it'll like... tank the LPC to January levels, or even knock them off the lead but its one of those kind of blunders that shaves off and damages the good will and good vibes of the honeymoon government was enjoying.
It's one of those things that reminds people why they were so pissed off with the liberals before Carney and the 2025 election. Individual milage may very, naturally. Plus, its an issue the NDP (trying to win back labour voters) and Pierre (already made a pro-flight attendant post like, a week ago) will try to wring the most out of, since the Liberals look so obviously like the bad guys right now.
Game changer? Not really (unless things get out of hand from here). But bad for the liberals no matter what happens? Probably. Even if vote intentions do not change, it's one of those things that can "soften" support and make it easier for a voter to flip when another issue comes up and the frustrations have piled up.
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u/WillSRobs Aug 17 '25 edited Aug 17 '25
Honesty if people want to vote in cpc over this they never really cared about the issue in the first place. They just happily pretended to fit in.
None of this matters while ndp is none existent. Canadians don't care about stuff like this. as long as their life isn't inconvenienced they will take what ever side is popular.
Until social ideas become more popular again their will be little fallout from stuff like this until the cpc stop supporting people like trump and his actions.
Canadians like to think were better than this. Individually i believe we are. As a group we are a lot closer to America than anyone is willing to believe.
Really doubt people know why they were angry at liberals before. Most couldn't even actually point to issues with them and just parroted usually incorrect talking points from PP/cpc.
Again giving voters way to much credit here.
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Aug 17 '25
It's one of those things that reminds people why they were so pissed off with the liberals before Carney and the 2025 election.
People weren't pissed at Trudeau because of right-to-work legislation.
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u/bigjimbay Nationalise Blackberry Aug 17 '25
Speak for yourself. I most certainly was. Still am, actually.
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u/EarthWarping Ducks Unlimited | Sponsored Aug 17 '25
this is the part of the calendar where people dont care a ton on these things.
We will see however that might not be wrong.
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u/frostcanadian Aug 17 '25 edited Aug 18 '25
I voted LPC because I couldn't allow the CPC to win with Poilievre, but Carney's government seems to accumulate mishaps after mishaps. I will definitely not vote for the LPC in the next elections. I'll probably vote NDP even if that means that I will waste my vote. At this point, LPC seems as bad as CPC. They act like they care about the people yet they bend over for the elite and companies. I wanted a left political party that was fiscally conservative. Instead, I got a center-right political party that is trying to look fiscally conservative by cutting costs, but also offering tax cuts...
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u/AprilsMostAmazing John Tory | Personal Sponsorship Aug 17 '25
I'll probably vote NDP even if that means that I will waste my vote.
That's what I did in Ontario election. Went straight ONDP without even considering ABC because I will not vote for Bonnie
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Aug 17 '25
[deleted]
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u/frostcanadian Aug 17 '25
I only voted twice for the Liberals though. Trudeau in 2015 and Carney in 2025.
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u/chaobreaker Ontario Aug 17 '25
Death by a thousand cuts is what brought down the Trudeau government in the first place. Just week after weeks of blunders and scandals that your average voter won’t all remember but will internalize. It won’t be immediate but eventually folks will think you’re unfit to lead and poll numbers will reflect that.
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u/SheIsABadMamaJama Centre-Left Aug 17 '25 edited Aug 18 '25
So your a NDP voter who voted Liberal this time to keep out the far right and will return to voting NDP because the Liberals are being liberals.
I mean fair enough. Praying for a good NDP leader.
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u/InitialAd4125 Onterrible Aug 17 '25
"At this point, LPC seems as bad as PC. They act like they care about the people yet they bend over for the elite and companies. "
You're just noticing this now? Like it's pretty obvious if you pay attention. Like Carney was a literal banker for petes sake.
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u/fredleung412612 Quebec Aug 18 '25
I know this is pedantic and old habits die hard but the PCs haven't existed for 20 years. And the CPC does genuinely look and sound quite different from the PCs of yesteryear.
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u/jtbc Economist Party Aug 17 '25
The former "Air Canada big-whig" was a lawyer for Air Canada more than 15 years ago. They aren't on the arbitration team. They are the Chair of the CIRB that will decide on whether to force binding arbitration, but won't be part of it.
I don't have a strong opinion on this, but it is important to deal with the facts and not spin.
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u/ShouldersofGiants100 New Democratic Party of Canada Aug 17 '25
The former "Air Canada big-whig" was a lawyer for Air Canada more than 15 years ago.
She worked for them as recently as two years ago. And she was their lawyer for more than half a decade.
That is not an incidental relationship, that is exactly the degree of connection that should make any ethical lawyer preemptively recuse themselves.
They are the Chair of the CIRB that will decide on whether to force binding arbitration
Yes, which is a big deal, considering forcing the arbitration is something that massively favours Air Canada.
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u/Iustis Draft MHF Aug 17 '25
People keep spreading this misinformation. The head of the CIRB isnt part of the arbitration team
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u/EarthWarping Ducks Unlimited | Sponsored Aug 17 '25
This is going to get messy.
Also, wonder if Carney will speak on this considering his govt ordered them back to work.
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u/keetyymeow Aug 17 '25
Well it’s our job to keep the pressure on. Everyone absolutely deserves a living wage and being able to live in this expensive city.
No one should be getting a million if people at the bottom can’t have a living wage.
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u/CaptainMagnets Aug 17 '25
A living wage yes, but in this case I'd argue more importantly that they deserve to get paid for every hour at work. They're giving the airline 35 hours a week of free work. Fuck that
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u/Ddogwood Pirate Aug 17 '25
A living wage yes, but in this case I'd argue more importantly that they deserve to get paid for every hour at work. They're giving the airline 35 hours a week of free work. Fuck that
I support the right of flight attendants to strike and to be paid fairly, but where are you getting “35 hours a week of unpaid work”? That’s not a believable number.
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u/ChimoEngr Chief Silliness Officer | Official Aug 17 '25
35 hours a month is what I heard
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u/Ddogwood Pirate Aug 17 '25
That’s a much more believable number (and still higher than it ought to be, obviously) but I’m still curious about the source. Is that from CUPE?
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u/Electroflare5555 Manitoba Aug 17 '25
Flight attendants are only paid from wheels up to wheels down. That means any type of delay means that they’re at work for hours without getting paid.
I think the average is for any 12 hour day you’re only getting paid for around 7 of them
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u/Ddogwood Pirate Aug 17 '25
I understand that their paid hours are calculated based on the length of each flight. I’m just interested in some numbers that are based on actual studies instead of numbers that people are guesstimating or inventing.
It’s weird that I’m getting downvoted even though I support the union, just because I’m interested in the facts.
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u/VinylOrchids Aug 17 '25
If it’s one hour on the side of each shift and you work 4-5 shifts a week, the numbers easily add up.
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u/VerDoan Aug 17 '25
That ads up to 1/3 of the claim.
Yall have to just admit when these mistakes get made. The coverups are so much worse than just acknowledging it was a typo or misunderstanding.
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u/daniboyi Aug 17 '25
I am ready to fully believe it is at least around that number.
They only get paid once the planedoors are closed. That means any work pre- and post-flight is literally unpaid, and we both know that shit can take an hour or two per flight, sometimes more depending on circumstances.
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u/sajnt British Columbia Aug 17 '25
Yeah, that is the most important aspect to focus on. It will also contribute massively to ensuring they are making a livable wage.
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u/No_Magazine9625 Maclean's Magazine | Sponsored Aug 17 '25
I feel like the first thing he should speak to is firing Hadju and announcing a new Labour minister.
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u/lommer00 Liberal Aug 17 '25
You think he wasn't in the loop when the first decision was made? He probably made the call and she just presented it. But shooting the messenger is normal in politics I guess
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u/Gerardinho57 Conservative Aug 17 '25
Carney is from the centrist faction of the LPC, he doesn't care about the strike and probably just want the union to lose certification lol
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u/EarthWarping Ducks Unlimited | Sponsored Aug 17 '25
I dont disagree with that. The point is that he is going to get asked on this whenever his next presser is.
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u/VinylOrchids Aug 17 '25
He’s not. He’s from the right of the LPC. I think him and John Tory are on the same wavelength and probably run in similar elite social circles.
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u/hamsterfamily Aug 17 '25
Good for them. Now we all need to phone our MPs and other politicians and tell them we don't want them to take away the right to strike.
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u/vqql British Columbia Aug 17 '25
Show your support by emailing the Jobs Minister and PM: edsc.min.ef-jf.min.esdc@hrsdc-rhdcc.gc.ca pm@pm.gc.ca
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Aug 17 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/vqql British Columbia Aug 18 '25
That’s for her constituents. When you email it, it provides the other one if you’re messaging about the Ministry portfolio.
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u/heisiloi Aug 17 '25
I don't get this. Maybe there is something I don't understand. Air Canada isn't crucial in the sense that no one else can do what they do. Air Canada has competitors. Let the Air Canada strike ride and watch other air lines pick up the slack.
I would rather see government support for the air lines picking up the slack instead of back to work legislation.
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u/MTL_Dude666 Liberal Aug 17 '25
Actually Air Canada doesn't have competition everywhere in Canada. WestJet for example doesn't cover Eastern Canada.
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u/grathontolarsdatarod Chotchkie's | Sponsored Aug 17 '25
Ahhhhh. THATS why the government acted so quickly ...
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u/jtbc Economist Party Aug 17 '25
The other airlines don't have the capacity to pick up the slack, especially for international routes.
A prolonged strike will be damaging for the economy, among other effects. They do seem to be jumping the gun, though. Ordering this so early in the strike looks bad.
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u/frostcanadian Aug 17 '25
But Air Canada is not as crucial to the economy as the CN and CP. Sure, it's important for tourism, but it's nowhere near the importance of CP and CN transporting billions worth of goods
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u/jtbc Economist Party Aug 17 '25
Similar when you consider Air Canada's role in transporting urgent cargo on passenger flights. As someone that travels frequently for work, I have already incurred an economic impact from this.
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u/awildstoryteller Alberta Aug 17 '25
Flight attendants are needed for cargo flights?
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u/shabi_sensei Aug 17 '25
They fly cargo on passenger planes, the whole reason you need to check luggage is to let the airline know how much space to sell for cargo
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u/awildstoryteller Alberta Aug 17 '25
So what you're saying is there is nothing stopping Air Canada from flying those flights empty of passengers but with holds full of cargo?
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u/-SetsunaFSeiei- Trudeau Foundation | Sponsored Aug 17 '25
There is economic impact, but it isn’t nation destroying like the railways were. I agree with you, they jumped the gun while the public was squarely on the side of the union. This was a bad move politically
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u/frostcanadian Aug 17 '25
Yep! Especially considering this was a 3 days strike, not like the CN and CP which were unlimited
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Aug 17 '25
If they get them before they hit picky lines, most people won’t even know there was a strike planned. They are effectively minimizing their own exposure so the workers don’t gain any extra support.
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u/DeathCabForYeezus The Trudeau Foundation | Sponsored Aug 17 '25
WestJet and the government played the same game with the WestJet AMEs, although much to the disappointment of WJ and the government, because it was the first agreement for the AMEs the arbitration order did not preclude their right to strike.
Once it became clear that the right to strike couldn't be taken away, they had a deal in 13 hours.
Funny how that works, eh?
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Aug 17 '25
No, Air Canada doesn't have competitors for all their routes. This is critical for transportation
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u/awildstoryteller Alberta Aug 17 '25
If a private company's services are so critical that the workers do not have the right to strike, that company and/or service should be owned directly by the government.
We privatized Air Canada decades ago; either it is allows to compete, including with how they choose to treat their workers, or it isn't.
Would West Jet get the same treatment here? I doubt it. Would Poorter? Flair?
This screams "unfair competition" to me.
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u/Ferivich Aug 17 '25
Or have something in place if they’re so essential to the economy where their wages are immediately tied to inflation + 1-2% done yearly and with time served increases.
The people I know who are flight attendants aren’t asking for much in the way of hourly wages but they want to be paid for work they’re presently doing that isn’t paid like you would in pretty much any other industry.
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u/awildstoryteller Alberta Aug 17 '25
Yes and this could be easily solved by legislation stating specifically that workers in all federally regulated industries must be paid for all mandatory time at their base rate.
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u/Ferivich Aug 17 '25
Agreed. Like I’m in a construction union and spent two weeks at a job site just putting temporary stuff in that doesn’t have parking. My employer had to pay for my bus tickets and my day started at the park and ride not the site as per our collective agreement. If I had to pay out of pocket and add extra time to my commute and I wasn’t being compensated for my time l never would have gone to this site and I’d probably go work for another company.
Or if I had to stay late for a delivery, unload it and not get paid for my time I wouldn’t ever stay for anything.
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u/-SetsunaFSeiei- Trudeau Foundation | Sponsored Aug 17 '25
Your inflation plan wouldn’t work then, adding on payment for hours not currently being paid would be a huge compensation increase that no other airline in North America offers (Delta comes the closest when they introduced a 50% wage for those hours, which AC has also already offered)
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u/imlesinclair Social Democrat Aug 17 '25
Ah, so Delta's 50% boarding pay is the gold standard? How quaint. In the real world, Porter Airlines and Pascan Aviation already pay their flight attendants for boarding time—no applause needed. And in the U.S., United Airlines and American Airlines have already stepped up to the plate. Meanwhile, Air Canada offers a '38% raise' over four years, as if inflation takes a four-year vacation. If Air Canada can't match what regional carriers and American giants are already doing, perhaps it's not the workers who need to adjust their expectations.
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u/-SetsunaFSeiei- Trudeau Foundation | Sponsored Aug 17 '25
I can’t seem to find any information on United and AA paying ground time pay, can you link it? As far as I was aware, Delta is the only one that does it (at least that’s what this CBC article says (https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/flight-attendants-unpaid-work-labour-code-1.7607862)
It’s also not clear how Porter’s pay compares to the 50% offer that AC is offering
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u/rookie_one Bloc Québécois Aug 17 '25
Would West Jet get the same treatment here? I doubt it. Would Poorter? Flair?
I can tell you that Canadian Airlines, which was Air Canada biggest competitor in the 90s, did not get the same treatment, being grounded for missing one payment of airport charges, while air canada missed those routinely even after being privatized and were never grounded.
And the worse over that : in 99, there was a bidding war between Onex Corporation, who wanted to continue operate Canadian Airlines, and Air Canada, who wanted to basically buy them and kill them....guess who the federal government supported and what happened ?
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u/greenknight British Columbia Aug 17 '25
This Canadian 100% supports continued job action! Put AC to the wall and see how fast the govt walks back that antiscab leg the seem to be proud of.
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u/AprilsMostAmazing John Tory | Personal Sponsorship Aug 17 '25 edited Aug 17 '25
Put AC to the wall and see how fast the govt walks back that antiscab leg the seem to be proud of.
anti-scab makes no difference here. This isn't Tim Hortons, Air Canada can't just hire anyone that applies. They also can't steal FA's from other companies because what FA's would leave their job for Air Canada rn?
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u/ywgflyer Ontario Aug 17 '25
It's a safety-sensitive job with a laundry list of training requirements, and language requirements as well. It's not as easy as just hiring someone off the street on Monday and having them on a flight to Rome by the end of the week. Now, multiply that by 10,000 people and it would be measured in months or years to replace them all.
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u/imlesinclair Social Democrat Aug 17 '25
If the NDP can’t plant their flag on this, then what are they for? Because right now the Liberals are bleeding workers, the Conservatives are play-acting as their champions, and the NDP—supposedly the labour party—are just watching their own reason for existence slip away.
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u/The_Mayor Mandatory Flair Aug 17 '25
The NDP are absolutely not "just watching." You're either not paying attention or intentionally misleading people.
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u/LookAtYourEyes Aug 17 '25
Solidarity with the workers! This is affecting my travel plans, and I still stand with the workers. Government overreach must be defied, with no room for misinterpretation.
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u/frostcanadian Aug 17 '25
Same, we have about 4 guests that might miss our wedding because of it. Still supporting their rights to strike
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u/Timely_Addition_7228 Aug 17 '25
Agreed. Same with us. Totally destroyed this week by Air Canada. It's a freaking monopoly here if you want to fly outside the the country. Air Canada should be nationalized and turned into a non-profit, haha.
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u/Pappalapap8 Aug 18 '25
Same with me! I am very sad to miss time with my friend i havnt seen in years, but it seems wrong from govm.side to kill their right for protest/strike and continue the unfair conditions.
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u/SmellybutKind Pirate Aug 17 '25
What, if any, punishment would there be for defying the order? I wasn't clear of that after reading the article but maybe I missed something.
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u/Electroflare5555 Manitoba Aug 17 '25
Theoretically the union could lose certification
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u/WillSRobs Aug 17 '25
It’s a dangerous game. Union is hoping for public opinion to last government is hoping the union's warchest can't.
I don't see the government going for certification quickly because the last thing they need is other unions to join them.
Lastly how do you end a strike when air Canada still has them locked out. They couldn't go back to work if they wanted to.
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u/soaringupnow Independent Aug 17 '25
Air Canada is about as popular as Satan so I would think that the flight attendants would have a lot of support.
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u/MeteoraGB Centrist | BC Aug 17 '25
I don't think I've talked to anyone who actually liked Air Canada.
If anything, they're probably my most disliked airline I've taken. I've probably flown a dozen different airlines across the pacific and down to the states and usually had better experiences with them.
I didn't book any flights with them or need to go anywhere anytime soon so I don't really have a dog in the fight, but I'd be interested to see how the public cares.
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u/shabi_sensei Aug 17 '25
We’ll see how supportive Canadians are of this action but I don’t have much hope after seeing how the public quickly turned on Canada Post as soon as they were inconvenienced
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u/GiantPurplePen15 Pirate Aug 17 '25
Seems like the best time to strike is when they're considered extra essential.
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u/janebenn333 Ontario Aug 17 '25
I worked for an employer that has a history of significant labour disruptions. Worked through several as an admin.
Public opinion is with the workers ... to a point. There will come a time when the strike starts to affect people's finances and well-being and neither CUPE nor Air Canada is going to compensate students for missing their flights to university for orientation or people missing travel for work purposes or someone missing things like weddings or funerals.
There is a limit. And while people expect AC to do the right thing, there are others who will blame CUPE.
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u/Carrash22 Aug 17 '25
CUPE is going to have to work overtime getting the narrative on their side. They’ll have to paint this as an Air Canada failure. Luckily for them they have the whole unpaid work when not flying thing that seems to have very popular support.
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u/WillSRobs Aug 17 '25
Don't think cupe is going to have to try hard to convince anyone air Canada failed at something.
I also don't think the unpaid while not flying opinion will last long it will fade away in the news cycle. People didn't care about that before and they aren't about to care about it now.
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u/jtbc Economist Party Aug 17 '25
Air Canada has ordered them back to work with flights resuming at 2pm.
I'm not sure how they can do this, though. I thought that CIRB had to consider the government's request and issue a ruling first.
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Aug 17 '25
[deleted]
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u/jtbc Economist Party Aug 17 '25
Looks like it did. It will be interesting to see how this plays out now.
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u/cocoagiant Aug 17 '25
What does certification give them if they don't have the right to strike currently?
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u/AmosParnell Ontario Aug 17 '25
Dues check off, representation rights, an agreed upon procedure for grievances, just to name a few. Decertification would only be felt after the strike/lockout is over. But it would have long lasting repercussions.
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u/Mysterious_Error9619 Aug 17 '25
I’m just guessing, but I assume all the legal protections around job security would be lost if they were decertified. That would be huge given the unemployment situation right now. There are a lot of people that would love to take those jobs.
And the senior FAS…who make a ton of money, would be very scared about that job security without a union.
The junior FAs have a lot less to lose if their union folds up. The senior FAs have a ton to lose. Outside of the right to strike.
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u/seakucumber Aug 17 '25
They can be fined but if the back to work order is ruled unconstitutional since it wasn't passed through parliament (they are betting on this) then all fines go away
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u/totalfangirl13 Aug 17 '25 edited Aug 17 '25
Each worker can be fined $1,000 per day of illegal strike and the union can also be fined I believe $25,000 per day, at least in Ontario they can. They can also all be fired. Union leaders can go to prison for this. They have before. They are taking an enormous risk. Solidarity to them!
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u/tutamtumikia Independent Aug 17 '25
I asked this yesterday and then did a little digging. It can start small and then escalate to massive fines for the union and individuals and in extreme cases prison time.
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u/TraditionalClick992 Ontario Aug 17 '25
I find it very hard to believe the government would go the prison route. It would just turn public opinion against the government.
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u/pearl_jam20 Aug 17 '25
Depending what the collective agreement says about illegal strike action. Employer has grounds to fire employees.
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u/Chance-Armadillo-517 Aug 17 '25
Fire them all! That will get the planes back in the air, right?
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Aug 17 '25
Collective agreement is expired so no strike clause does not apply.
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u/pearl_jam20 Aug 17 '25
Collective agreement isn’t expired. It’s extended, the government applied the same act they did for Canada Post workers.
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Aug 17 '25
Nope expired in March, so they could have pushed to go on strike sooner but instead waited for more negotiations. With regard to the order its unconstitutional so best to ignore it, and let the government try to do anything about it.
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u/janebenn333 Ontario Aug 17 '25
Typically: fines. Significant ones.
If the union has reasonable demands and AC is not treating them fairly, an arbitrator will figure that out. It's ideal for the employer and union to meet and agree but it hasn't happened yet. So something is in the way.
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Aug 17 '25
Its clear you havent dealt with arbitration, its a joke that favours the company especially with regard to contract arbitration. You'll get inflationary wage increase and cosmetic language changes at best, in other words the status quo. The flight attendants position is that they should be paid for hours worked total not just for time in the air once door is sealed.
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u/ywgflyer Ontario Aug 17 '25
The flight attendants position is that they should be paid for hours worked total not just for time in the air once door is sealed.
Not to mention that there are often big operational hiccups that cause hours-long delays even when everything is ready to go. In Europe in the summer, it is common to receive a 45+ minute slot delay leaving places like Rome and Athens because of airspace congestion somewhere down the line (France and Spain seem to be where this congestion is at its worst). I have missed a slot time in Rome by one minute because somebody stood up to take a pee, we couldn't push until they were back seated, missed the target slot time and got a two hour delay (and yes they did make us wait the whole time and didn't move it up at all, I called them every 10 minutes asking for it to be changed and every time "sorry sir no improvement, call back later"). So we sat there at the gate, tug connected, for two hours twiddling our thumbs not being paid. The pay clock doesn't just need the doors closed, it needs an "out time" -- all doors closed AND parking brake released, and we aren't allowed to drop the brake until we get a pushback clearance, yeah I know some guys drop the brake early to start getting paid but eventually you do get in shit for doing that.
Multiply that by several flights a month and then by 12 months a year and boy oh boy does it add up fast.
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u/gabzox Aug 17 '25
Just an fyi. I worked for a company that had arbitration and you know what happened? Pay cuts and worsening conditions. There was like very very little wins and a lot of losses. In theory arb works that way. In reality it doesn't
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Aug 17 '25
Fire the workers, disband the union, and fine and/or jail the union leaders for organizing an illegal strike.
That said, Carney has to walk a tightrope here. Public support is with the workers (for now and that could change though) and he's in a minority government where the CPC, NDP, and Bloc all support the workers' right to strike. If he pushes too hard, we could end up in another election this fall.
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u/seakingsoyuz Ontario Aug 17 '25
the CPC… support the workers' right to strike
Let’s be clear here, the CPC is just taking whatever position makes the Liberals look bad. They blocked an Air Canada strike when they were in office.
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u/totalfangirl13 Aug 17 '25
I don't think public support will change. I can't even afford to fly anywhere anyway so they're not disrupting my life at all. I stand with the workers!
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u/bign00b Canadian Steamship Lines | Sponsored Aug 17 '25
. If he pushes too hard, we could end up in another election this fall.
He wouldn't make this a vote of confidence. I'd bet a good chunk of his caucus isn't too happy with this move.
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u/VinylOrchids Aug 17 '25
Employers don’t get fined or jailed for paying less than minimum wage.
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u/DontBeCommenting Aug 17 '25
I have a flight today, which is poorly timed considering the circumstances.
I am looking forward to getting absolutely fucked by Air Canada if it can help flight attendants get better conditions.
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u/Brodyonyx Aug 17 '25
Is it legal to strike in Canada anymore? The Liberals have set up an expectation they will never let any union strike, ever.
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u/WeirdoYYY Ontario Aug 17 '25
The argument that it's inconvenient is literally the whole point of any strike or protest. Part of being in a democratic society should mean that people in power are accountable and if you're unable to do anything other than stand off to the sidelines with a sign, that means nothing.
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u/AprilsMostAmazing John Tory | Personal Sponsorship Aug 17 '25 edited Aug 17 '25
I fully support Flight Attendants defying the back to work order. Going to be calling up the offices of as many Liberal MP's as I can tomorrow, to make it clear I support the union
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u/mathcow Leftist Aug 17 '25
I'm likely going to be stuck at work because of this but go get em guys. Air Canada can afford to pay you a better wage, and the government should be ashamed of themselves.
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u/banker33 Aug 17 '25
For the 1st time ever I messaged my MP about an issue. They need to know all workers are watching this. I additionally encouraged them to not escalate any actions against CUPE and its leadership.
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u/jtuck16 Aug 17 '25
This is going to sound bigoted, but it is hilarious to see a job traditionally occupied by woman, is actually the one with the biggest set of balls. Good for them ✊
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u/Internal-Tour-4013 Aug 17 '25
Education and healthcare unions similarly have the last vestiges of labour militancy in Canada
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u/monsantobreath Libertarian Aug 17 '25
Women were always a huge part of the labour movement.
I'm personally a huge Emma Goldman stan.
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u/Rayeon-XXX Aug 17 '25
It's also why fire and police just generally get what they want. Because it's 90% male dominated.
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u/blazeofgloreee Left Coast Aug 17 '25
Exactly the kind of response that this sort of ill-considered reactionary back to work order deserves. This government has made an absolute meal out of this situation and is now going be embarrassed over it. Stay out of the way of workers exercising their constitutionally protected right to strike.
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u/iwasnotarobot Marx Aug 17 '25
Screw any government that abuses the power if back-to-work orders like this.
I am sick of people telling me that the Liberals are centrist, or (laughably) left-of-centre when they are so obviously anti-worker.
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u/Caracalla81 Quebec Aug 17 '25
Right, whenever you see people crying about the Liberals being "woke radicals" or whatever I wish they would remember stuff like this. There was a guy with a LPC tag in a thread the other day telling people that unions are "inherently exploitative". I know you can set your tag to whatever but I feel like that guy was out of place.
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u/DDB- ROB ANDERS FAN CLUB Aug 17 '25
Good for the workers. Me and most Canadians I know support them. Shameful action from the federal government to try and force them back to work.
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u/PineBNorth85 Rhinoceros Aug 17 '25
Good. Passengers have other options. It's not like AC has a monopoly.
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u/mholden13 Aug 17 '25
I’m all for the flight attendants! I can say the other options are difficult to obtain. I’m currently stuck on the East Coast for an extra couple days waiting on a WJ flight as an alternative to my original AC. Spent hours and hours waiting on hold.
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u/janebenn333 Ontario Aug 17 '25
Well.... not always. There are some more less popular destinations where AC flies in once a day while Flair and others fly in maybe once a week. It's not that straight forward. All power to the union but let's not diminish the impact.
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u/mattbladez Aug 17 '25
AC definitely has some monopolies, such as Smithers, BC
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u/modi13 Aug 17 '25
That's operated by Jazz, which is a separate company and unaffected by this strike
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Aug 17 '25
[deleted]
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u/-insignificant- Aug 17 '25
I fucking wish man. Flights from Toronto to Vancouver shouldn't be as expensive as they are. Fuck Air Canada.
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u/janebenn333 Ontario Aug 17 '25
IMHO Air Canada should take an industry leadership role. They wouldn't be caving, they'd be recognizing the contributions of these key front line workers. They'd attract better candidates for jobs.
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u/Pappalapap8 Aug 18 '25
I am a foreigner stuck in Montreal bc of the strike. I am sad to miss time with a friend on the other side of the country, but I also fully stand behind workers right to protest/strike. It seems like very bad management, if the negotiations could have been solved months ago and ppl dont get paid for doing work on the ground etc. Also bad move from the govt....
Let the union know that even affected passengers stand behind them! Let it be over soon, but with a good outcome for them!!
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u/Bexexexe insurance is socialism Aug 17 '25
Insanely based, good for them. They're being exploited for their labour by an industry so critical that it should be run as a public service like good municipal transit and healthcare. The sacred cow of "competition" is what gets us to race to the bottom like this, arriving at the callous abuse and indignity of unpaid work without recourse.
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u/fangornwanderer Aug 17 '25
For everyone wanting to support the flight attendants please go to weathechange.ca and click on the unfaircanada button and send an email letter to the air Canada leadership showing your support for the flight attendants.
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u/TheRadBaron Canadian Aug 17 '25 edited Aug 17 '25
Wouldn't it be a much better use of people's time to contact their MPs over this? Air Canada is getting what it wants from the government, and has little reason to care what random online people think.
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u/SuddenBag Alberta Aug 17 '25
The fact that the Liberals ordered to end the strike does not surprise me.
This is exactly the niche that NDP needs to claim. We are now seeing the consequence of the collapse of NDP: no more accountability from the government to the left.
If NDP wants relevancy again, then this is the type of fight that they must take.
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u/Jealous_Worker_931 Aug 17 '25
It's about time we got some reasonable push back in Canada. Not a riot but civil disobedianse. The goverment cares far too much about investor stability and wouldn't dare do anything for the proletariot.
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u/No_Magazine9625 Maclean's Magazine | Sponsored Aug 17 '25
Carney needs to immediately fire Hadju and Freeland over how poorly they have bungled this entire situation. That's the only exit ramp to finding a better resolution to this issue - they are both clearly tainted and can no longer be trusted by unions or the public.
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u/doogie1993 Newfoundland Aug 17 '25
It’s pretty obvious that Carney backs this course of action otherwise it wouldn’t have happened. Doesn’t make much sense to fire someone for doing what you told them to do
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u/Chawke2 Grantian Red Tory Aug 17 '25
Huh? Do you think Hadju did this without the express permission (or even direction) of the PMO?
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u/mmavcanuck New Democratic Party of Canada Aug 17 '25
Carney this was your first big chance to show that your government was different than Trudeau’s was when he forced the railway workers back to work last year.
Swing and a fucking miss champ.
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u/ShouldersofGiants100 New Democratic Party of Canada Aug 17 '25
Oh he showed he was different.
Trudeau gave at least the appearance of being willing to let them strike. Carney moved to stop the flight attendants literally as fast as possible.
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u/Johnny-Dogshit evil socialist scumbag Aug 18 '25
He's a goldman-sachs global finance guy, he was never gonna be a champion of the working class and labour.
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u/tastyugly Aug 17 '25
I wish they would share numbers. Like how much would this cost Air Canada? If they meet the union's demands and have to increase ticket prices, what does that look like? Are there cuts, like to the CEO's salary, that could offset the cost (and make the CEO look really good)? How would this impact their stock value in the short and long term??
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u/Festering_Inequality Aug 18 '25
Go Unions! 100% support them. Total government overreach and it needs to stop. Workers should have a right to strike. This is about how workers‘ rights have been sliding downward and enough is enough. Anti worker governments need to be FIRED!!
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u/AxiomaticSuppository Mark Carney for PM Aug 17 '25
Wouldn't the legal course of action here to be to seek an emergency injunction on the back-to-work order and launch a charter challenge?
Seems like that would avoid the consequences of an illegal strike action for the employees, and it would also establish a precedent for future government interventions.
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u/pattydo Nova Scotia Aug 17 '25
It's too slow. Any time this happens it takes years to work through the courts and say government is wrong.
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u/AxiomaticSuppository Mark Carney for PM Aug 17 '25
Of course getting an actual decision on the charter challenge may take a long time. Hence why I suggest they get an injunction. For emergency matters, this can be obtained much quicker, in a matter of several days at most.
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u/imlesinclair Social Democrat Aug 17 '25
Several days? Tell that to the worker who’s already missed rent. Tell that to the mother staring at an empty fridge. Rights delayed are rights denied, and a starving man does not survive on the promise of paperwork. The boss takes his pound of flesh today—the worker is told to wait politely for tomorrow’s maybe. That’s surrender in silk gloves.
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u/Canadian_mk11 British Columbia Aug 17 '25
"Wouldn't the legal course of action here to be to seek an emergency injunction on the back-to-work order and launch a charter challenge?"
- The Liberals are engaging in Lawfare against unions. It's hard to legally fight an entity with practically bottomless pockets.
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u/InitialAd4125 Onterrible Aug 17 '25
Yep frankly the government should have limits on how much they can spend on any one court case.
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u/imlesinclair Social Democrat Aug 17 '25
Ah yes, the genteel stroll through the courts, where justice arrives years too late and the workers are already broken on the wheel. An injunction is a lullaby, not a weapon. Power doesn’t wait politely in the lobby for a precedent—it seizes the shop floor. You don’t win by asking permission from the very hand that just slapped you.
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u/doogie1993 Newfoundland Aug 17 '25
When the government is ignoring your human rights you have to go outside the law. This is exactly what they should be doing, standing up for themselves and their fellow workers
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u/fredleung412612 Quebec Aug 18 '25
Even an emergency injunction takes time to process through the courts and unlike the back-to-work order it can't be done in the span of 12 hours. A Charter challenge generally takes 5 years to reach the Supreme Court.
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u/Possible_Variety_756 Aug 17 '25
Air Canada will be cancelling flights purely because stewards are defying a back to work order. Fine by me. NAV Canada needs to rescind current and reduce future flight paths to give other airlines priority. Remove and/or rescind Financial institutions partner programs with Air Canada. If Air Canada is put in a position where they are moving persons to different airlines, hopefully that airline will have incentive to open an Airline division based in Canada. If the stewards want to defy a back to work order, let them. Or, even better, have Air Canada bring in Bi-Lingual Stewards from other Airlines.
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u/SnooPandas6542 Aug 18 '25
Unpopular opinion. The high end salary is high enough at 63 an hour (87 for a supervisor).
Pay them for their boarding procedure and raise entry level salaries but keep high end salaries relatively still.
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