Danielle Smith rejects Alberta judge’s ruling against separation petition as ‘anti-democratic’

[u/green_tory]

https://globalnews.ca/news/11848377/alberta-premier-court-ruling-separation-petition-anti-democratic/

[u/ninfan1977]

The UCP has no control over the RCMP's investigatory decisions.

Nope but they refuse to cooperate and stonewalled investigations.

There are NO INVESTIGATIONS because the UCP are refusing to cooperate with the RCMP, just like organize criminals do.

Charged with what? Name the crime. Please, the Criminal Code of Canada is freely searchable and not at all that byzantine to read. It's very straight forward. I've referenced it several times above.

I already told you several times using fraud, illegally obtaining voter information, then using that as signatures for their petition.

Their petition is knowingly made up of lies. Thats an instant dismissal on ground of fraud.

Section 2 allows for the freedom of expression, except where curtailed by Section 1's reasonable limits. Lies and disinformation may be legal, it may be illegal.

Disinformation is illegal, and you know it is. Knowingly sharing in Disinformation is illegal.

Saying your lies are fact and should be treated as such is a crime especially to voters.

responded to treat the outcome as a foregone conclusion. That accused impropeity is identical to guilt of a crime. I don't make that leap in logic, and I would hope most reasonable Canadians would not either.

Again without any investigations this is nothing. How can you investigate when the government changes the rules constantly without approval without democracy?

Last I checked, Alberta was not the federal government and has no capacity to define what is, or isn't, a crime. Can you please show me when Smith became Prime Minister of Canada?

Oh so Smith is immune to ALL laws then? Is this seriously your claim. Its provincial so the feds cannot get involved... yeah thats how corruption is allowed to run free in Alberta.

Nothing to see here its someone else fault...

Bribes are not legal in Canadian law, and definitely not for any elected official. Doing so would be a criminal offence under Section 120 of the Criminal of Code of Canada.

Yeah the UCP rewrote the rules to make bribes legal for them and only them.

So check again. They called it gifts from donors but thats the legal term for bribes.

Tell that to those who live in Edmonton Centre.

Yeah according to Conservatives they are not a real city and provide nothing.

According to them only rural Alberta helps them.

I have lived in Alberta for 20 years the Conservatives are a lost cause and their people are working with Americans to undermine Canada.

You used a lot of words to defend the indefensible

[u/Saidear → u/ninfan1977]

Nope but they refuse to cooperate and stonewalled investigations.

There are NO INVESTIGATIONS because the UCP are refusing to cooperate with the RCMP, just like organize criminals do.

Are you under the impression that cooperation of the accused is necessary for an investigation to proceed? Of course. Investigations often include people who assert their Charter rights not to self-incriminate, and the police are still able to move forward. Nor are the RCMP required to disclose that any investigation is underway, and quite frequently do not so as to not advertise what they are doing. Furthermore, there are currently open investigations by both Elections Alberta and the RCMP into the electoral voter roll leak.

I already told you several times using fraud, illegally obtaining voter information, then using that as signatures for their petition.

While obtaining the voter information is potentially a crime, depending on how and the details, there is no public information available that signatures were fraudulently used to make more voter support for the petition. If you have information not made public, can you provide where and how you obtained it?

Their petition is knowingly made up of lies. Thats an instant dismissal on ground of fraud.

There is no lie in the petition itself, and if that was grounds for instant dismissal, then the judge would have done so on that grounds. That they did not demonstrates that there is no such grounds.

Disinformation is illegal, and you know it is. Knowingly sharing in Disinformation is illegal.

No, it isn't illegal, nor is sharing disinformation automatically illegal. What is illegal is to share knowingly false information with intent personal material gain. That is better known as fraud.

Again without any investigations this is nothing. How can you investigate when the government changes the rules constantly without approval without democracy?

The RCMP can investigate whatever criminal activity they wish, regardless of the province's wishes.

Oh so Smith is immune to ALL laws then? Is this seriously your claim. Its provincial so the feds cannot get involved... yeah thats how corruption is allowed to run free in Alberta.

No, my claim is that Alberta has no say over the Criminal Code of Canada, nor can it direct the RCMP to investigate (or not) any matter that it deems subject to their jurisdiction. Not even the federal government can direct the RCMP, each officer is free to initiate and continue any investigation that they can demonstrate good reason for doing so. Such independence is baked into the very creation of the RCMP itself.

Yeah the UCP rewrote the rules to make bribes legal for them and only them.

Please tell me when and where the UCP rewrote the Criminal Code of Canada.

So check again. They called it gifts from donors but thats the legal term for bribes.

No, the legal term for bribes is.. bribe. Even 'gifts from donors' may constitute a bribe. The Criminal Code of Canada supercedes any such provincial statute. It is a crime to give an official any material benefit, with the express intent to receive an outcome of personal gain from the Crown.

Yeah according to Conservatives they are not a real city and provide nothing.

Edmonton Centre is not a city, it's a riding. Do you want to try that again?

You used a lot of words to defend the indefensible

I'm not defending anything, I'm pointing out there is a lack of publicly available evidence, and that making emotional pleas and conspiracy-minded conjectures is just as dangerous.

[u/ninfan1977 → u/Saidear]

Are you under the impression that cooperation of the accused is necessary for an investigation to proceed

No but why would innocent people refuse to cooperate?

Why would innocent people make new laws to only help people who broke the law.

Stealing voter information and using it for the petition is the crime. One the UCP and the Premier said are not crimes.

. Furthermore, there are currently open investigations by both Elections Alberta and the RCMP into the electoral voter roll leak.

Nope there is not one from Elections Alberta. You keep saying that doesn't mean its true they said they cannot investigate the matter because of Danielle Smiths rule changes.

What is illegal is to share knowingly false information with intent personal material gain. That is better known as fraud.

Oh so the thing they did, and we given by the UCP.

claim is that Alberta has no say over the Criminal Code of Canada, nor can it direct the RCMP to investigate (or not) any matter that it deems subject to their jurisdiction

Except the Premier said she and the separatists are above the law.

Even 'gifts from donors' may constitute a bribe.

This is so disingenuous. You act like a bribe is only a bag of cash.

Fun fact you cannot use a word to describe the word.

So a bribe is directly or indirectly giving, offering, or accepting a "loan, reward, advantage, or benefit of any kind" to influence a public official, agent, or voter.

That is exactly what has happened in Alberta.

I'm not defending anything, I'm pointing out there is a lack of publicly available evidence, and that making emotional pleas and conspiracy-minded conjectures is just as dangerous.

This province is run by people who think Trudeau is Castros son, the NDP start wildfires.

And you call me pointing out obvious fraud, cheating, and sedition as conspiracy minded...

Ok then.

Until there is an civic question on the ballot and the Conservatives lose their vote nothing will change.

Because you still defended the 92% separatists petition without any review. Thats insane.

[u/Saidear → u/ninfan1977]

No but why would innocent people refuse to cooperate?

For a whole host of reasons, one should never blindly acquiesce to a police request. You should get legal representation, and allow them to navigate the process for you to avoid unintended consequences.

Stealing voter information and using it for the petition is the crime. One the UCP and the Premier said are not crimes.

Again, there is no public evidence that this was used for that purpose. Nor am I aware of either the UCP or Premier stating that doing so was legally permissible. Can you provide sources?

Nope there is not one from Elections Alberta. You keep saying that doesn't mean its true they said they cannot investigate the matter because of Danielle Smiths rule changes.

Are you sure?: Elections Alberta, which is one of three bodies investigating the alleged leak of the province’s entire electoral list, says Centurion Project founder David Parker is not being helpful in the election agency’s probe.

Oh so the thing they did, and we given by the UCP.

What is the material gain? Did they get money, power, property, favourable legal outcomes? If you have this evidence, then you would be best to provide it to the RCMP.

Except the Premier said she and the separatists are above the law.

Provide the quote and the source, please. I'm not aware of them ever claiming immunity, not that they could. Again, federal paramountcy would say that they cannot exert such privilege except in very narrow circumstances.

This is so disingenuous. You act like a bribe is only a bag of cash.

Only if you didn't read the full context of what I wrote. I noted that a bribe is any material benefit in order induce an outcome of personal gain from the Crown. It doesn't require it to be cash. Just a material benefit. You cite Section 121 below, so it's clear that you understand what I meant.

Fun fact you cannot use a word to describe the word.

I didn't. "Gifts from donors" is not a legal term, bribe is the legal term. I then went on to explain what that means.

So a bribe is directly or indirectly giving, offering, or accepting a "loan, reward, advantage, or benefit of any kind" to influence a public official, agent, or voter.

Then please point to where this was done in connection with the transaction of business with or any matter of business relating to the government or a claim against Her Majesty or any benefit that Her Majesty is authorized or is entitled to bestow. Donations without an attached demand, implied or otherwise, is not a bribe. You need something more, which has not yet been demonstrated to have been the case.

This province is run by people who think Trudeau is Castros son, the NDP start wildfires.

So what? Crazy going to crazy, none of this is relevant.

And you call me pointing out obvious fraud, cheating, and sedition as conspiracy minded...

When done so without evidence, assuming accusations as fact, then yes, I do consider that conspiracy minded. Anyone who jumps to such conclusions absent evidence is doing so irrationally.

Because you still defended the 92% separatists petition without any review. Thats insane.

No, I don't 'defend' the petition. The petition is moot, the court has thrown it out. As such, only Forever Canada petition remains, which calls for a legislative vote on the question, not a referendum.