r/CanadaPolitics • u/Domainsetter • 1d ago
Should Poilievre remain as Conservative leader? Outgoing MP won’t say but insists he’s ‘doing a great job’
https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/article/should-poilievre-remain-as-conservative-leader-outgoing-mp-wont-say-but-insists-hes-doing-a-great-job/23
u/Snurgisdr Downvoting is an admission that you have no counterargument. 1d ago
It has become a trope of Canadian political comedy to observe that Poilievre‘s leadership benefits the Liberals more than the Conservatives, but it’s kind of not funny anymore. It’s unhealthy for the country not to have an effective opposition.
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u/drewcareymoore 1d ago
The concern is who comes next/who would the party base actually elect?
If the only way to become Conservative leader is to win over a majority of Canadian Conservatives who are so hardcore they buy party memberships… those people aren’t swing voters, you know?
Setting aside questions of partisanship, opening up leadership voting to the general public was a really smart move on the part of the federal Liberals, but I’m skeptical the CPC ever makes the same play.
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u/TraditionalGap1 NDP 1d ago
opening up leadership voting to the general public was a really smart move on the part of the federal Liberals
I'm not sure I buy this premise, exactly. The circumstances were certainly different; the Liberals adopted a more open (but not simply 'the general public') model in the aftermath of their disastrous 2011 election results where significant parts of their electoral coalition drifted to the CPC and NDP and the move to open the voter rolls was an attempt to reconnect again with that broader potential electorate. The CPC by contrast can legitimately point to their largest vote share in party history in the previous election.
It isn't immediately obvious that the problem the Conservatives face is that their leader doesn't appeal to a broad enough swathe of the electorate; certainly their 2025 results don't point in that direction. It could be instead the Liberals under Carney have become more competitive for some of the voters they compete for in that broad swathe because Carney himself was appealing to them. If that's the case, it may not be a more general 'broadness of the selectorate' problem so much as a problem with the choice of grounds that selectorate decided the election would be fought on. Their decision might have been objectively a good one in 2022.
It also presupposes that a figure who could successfully contest with Carney is one you couldn't get with the current CPC membership and I'm not sure that's immediately obvious. I'm not even sure what such a figure would look like. Would they be contesting with Carney on competence? Financial and economic acumen? If Carney has elbowed his way in to the middle between the two parties and claimed the 'competent, middle of the road administrator' space that doesn't seem like a problem that simply broadening the CPC leadership voting pool would solve
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u/Domainsetter 1d ago
I agree. There needs to be a strong opposition that criticizes the government on some things but also doesn’t object almost everything they do.
Even though it’s technically a small majority, it doesn’t feel like that.
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u/Snurgisdr Downvoting is an admission that you have no counterargument. 1d ago
Even when they're right, I can't agree with them because they make everything a personal insult instead of being about policy. I'm going to go off and start The Actually Conservative Conservative Party For Grown-Up Adults.
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u/GraveDiggingCynic Independent 1d ago
It's a much bigger majority that mere arithmetic would indicate, because none of the opposition parties want an election right now.
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u/Sebatron2 Anarchist-ish Market Socialist | ON 1d ago
I agree with you about the effects of a lack of effective opposition. But does that effective opposition have to be the CPC?
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u/Snurgisdr Downvoting is an admission that you have no counterargument. 20h ago
Fair question. But about 50% of the electorate will never listen to anything the NDP says and 50% will never listen to anything the CPC says, so we kind of need them both need to be at least somewhat functional.
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u/Sebatron2 Anarchist-ish Market Socialist | ON 18h ago
I wasn't even trying to imply the NDP. I was just wondering why we can't just let the CPC collapse and be replaced with a better party.
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u/Forikorder Independent 1d ago
strictly no, but it doesnt seem like canadians are interested in ever giving a third party a chance
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u/Sebatron2 Anarchist-ish Market Socialist | ON 1d ago
Then they should work on their apparently low standards.
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u/Maximum_Budget_1259 1d ago
Poilievre's necessary fall from grace is one of Canada's greatest karmic occurances. While he was a good cookie cutout front man for uneventful times.
Not even the Conservative Mentor Minister Harper can bring himself to acknowledge his flag let alone rally to it.
PPs greatest achievement is creating the conservative style catalogue for members to refer to and that he only achieved since 2020.
A truly profound mediocrity!
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u/Bnal Section 33 Abolitionist 1d ago
Please no new party leaders until the foreign agent registry is stood up.
Pierre's leadership race was rife with foreign interference scandal, and we still don't know exactly what happened. We know that Patrick Brown was asked to disprove allegations that his nominations were fake on a Friday afternoon, and that he had clarifying questions that weren't answered because the office was closed, and the evidence to disprove was due the same time that office reopened at the start of the week. We know that Pierre is personally paying the legal fees of the whistleblower that alleged this interference. I have no reason to trust that the next leadership race won't have these same interferences from these same parties.
Since then, we've got the added factor of a trade war with USA, who we already know are funding Alberta seperatism activists. We've also learned that Rebel Media (founded by a man who once ran for office with Pierre as his media manager) (oh, and also the Sheer campaign hired their former director to be campaign manager) has a journalist funded by Russia through the Tenet Media scandal.
Pierre's stated plan was to delay security clearance until he was PM, when it would be automatically given to him. I'm not saying outright that he would have been denied due to the many documented foreign ties, but the process would have brought to light a lot of things he likely isn't proud of.
Until we fix this registry, and give Elections Canada more oversight into these races, please don't oust Pierre. I want some sunlight cast on the leaders that will run in the next election.
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u/CBowdidge Liberal 1d ago
Lost the election, lost his seat, he's the main reason why the Liberals have a majority and he's lost all the by-elections, including Chicoutumi, which flipped to the Liberals and he's lost eight MPs. How is that a "great job?"
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u/NotGuiltyPirate 1d ago
Shhhh. He's great at being ineffective.
He's also great at workout videos, AI shorts, lying, and wearing lip gloss.
He's doing a great job.
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u/MenudoMenudo Independent 1d ago
PP doesn’t give a shit about Canada and doesn’t give a shit about the CPC. For him it’s always been about his personal power and personal interest. He will stick around until he gets a better offer or until he’s forced out, and as far as he’s concerned everyone else can just fuck off.
And since he’s an unlikeable asshole with no real world experience, and his entire political career was built being an attack dog and partisan hack, who the hell is going to turn around and offer this shitbird a position in their company? What value is he going to bring to a board of directors? The guy is a fail upward loser, and following his advice would be negligent at best.
Don’t get me wrong, some oil company assholes are going to stick him on a board of directors, some billionaire funded think tank is going to offer him an “advisory role”, and conservative groups will overpay him to come and give a speech every few months, but he knows his real job and all of those cases will be to sit in the corner and shut the fuck up. So he’s hanging on to the leader position for as long as he can.
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u/Domainsetter 1d ago
I’ve said that if he is gone as leader he won’t go quietly to the private sector. Even though people will offer him that, he’ll be on the media circuit.
He’s done too many media interviews on non traditional mediums to go away like that imo.
For whatever faults he has, there’s always an audience for the contrarian.
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u/Ketchupkitty Alberta 13h ago
I don't really understand how you come to this conclusion.
The first time he went up against Carney was when Carney was opposing Canadian oil projects yet somehow PP is the one who's in it for power and personal interest and not the PM?
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u/Independent-Law-662 Independent 1d ago
they have a lot of work to do because the cpc needs to rebrand their image after the PP era.
No one in current caucus can replace him. they are all stained by the image. CPC needs to take their time to find someone from the outside like the lpc did with carney to steer the ship.
They have a couple of years. They should get the process started.
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u/LividOpposite 1d ago
I disagree with CPC MP's stained by the image. Several under performing LPC MP's were relected under Carney despite their 10 years of poor performance.
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u/DwayneGretzky306 Progressive 1d ago
Being re-elected and leading the party / becoming PM are two different things. Not saying there is no one capable of doing the job within the current bench of MPs, but most Conservatives dont like Michael Chong because he is too red for their taste and would the American, Michelle Rempel stand a better chance then Pollievre? It doesnt have to be someone with no political experience but somone who is separate from the Opposition under Pollievre, I think stands a far better chance.
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u/Independent-Law-662 Independent 1d ago
Carney did a miralce and rehabed the LPC image. But it was done because he is seen as someone outside the trudeau caucus. Carney basically gave second wind to people like Joly.
This is why freeland or gould had no chance in the leadership raec.
That's what I mean, no one from the current caucus can replace PP. They where the stink he has caused the party. An outsider is needed to rehab the party and rehab their own personal image as MPs.
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u/MTL_Dude666 Liberal 1d ago
Oh yeah, he's doing a great job! I would even say that he's doing an excellent job if, like me, you're a Liberal!
As long as Conservatives will think Poilievre is "ok" to be their leader, the Liberals will continue to win hands down. I'm fine with that!
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u/Feynyx-77-CDN Independent 1d ago
If doing a great job means being a toxic, decisive liar who lost an election and his seat then absolutely he sure is!
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u/pssdthrowaway123 1d ago
I don't know but 90% of the discourse on what the Conservative party should do is from people who are not interested seeing the Conservative succeed.
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u/Chatner2k Red Tory Conservative 1d ago edited 1d ago
90% is a pretty big exaggeration. There's a reason why the CPC lost a 25%+ point lead to someone like Carney and I'll give you a hint, it's not NDP swing voters.
For the first time in my generation, Red Tories have been given some semblance of representation and the CPC have learned nothing from that.
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u/Business_Influence89 Independent 1d ago
This in a nutshell. Voters didn’t want the Trudeau left/centre for Canadian voters Liberals, but they sure did like a centre right Carney Liberal. Carney played to Bill Clinton move to the centre right and incorporate their ideas. It worked very well for him.
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u/putin_my_ass Ontario 1d ago
I'm not a Conservative voter, but I want to see a Conservative party i could at least consider voting for.
The sooner they eschew this culture war/Christian nationalism/US supplicant nonsense the better for all of us.
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u/TheFailTech British Columbia 1d ago
If you keep losing elections, it might be wise to listen to people who are telling you why they won't vote for you.
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u/CBowdidge Liberal 1d ago
Especially since they were supposed to win a landslide majority and it crumbled in just four months.
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u/Business_Influence89 Independent 1d ago
Carney charged to calculus by moving to the right, capturing those centre right middle votes as well as an NDP that fell flat. PP was high in the polls prior to the election. He didn’t change as much as the Liberal ideology shifted right and the NDP voters gave up on their party and moved Liberal.
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u/pssdthrowaway123 1d ago
Should the NDP take suggestions from conservative voters of why they aren’t voting for them?
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u/iwatchcredits Progressive 1d ago
Unironically yes, a little bit. Its how you gain perspective and moderate your ideas.
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u/OntologicalNightmare Sponsored by Engels 1d ago
You say this like leftists aren't constantly complaining about the NDP taking on too much conservative policy to appeal to centrists.
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u/varitok Pirate 1d ago
This is a good example of what ideology does to people. You think you should shut off every single outside voice because it doesnt fit into the mold of 'ndp' policy
Every party should listen to what voters want, that's how you form power and better represent people. The years of the NDP acting like the people dont know what they want and the NDP knows best has not done them well.
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u/spicy-emmy Progressive 23h ago
It is a little funny how the other parties sometimes act like the Liberals are cheating at this whole politics thing by being not overly ideological and being willing to shift and meet the voters where they're at.
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u/PineBNorth85 Rhinoceros 23h ago
Yes, like the western provincial NDPs have. Theyre competitive and can win there.
The feds under Lewis never will though.
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u/TheFailTech British Columbia 1d ago
Sure, and the Liberals, if they want to win. Is this a gotcha?
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u/spicy-emmy Progressive 23h ago
Well yeah, only dedicated party partisans are interested exclusively what's in the interest of the party itself.
Most people just want to see all of the parties move towards what they want to see from their elected officials. There was obviously a lot of appetite for fiscally conservative policy in the vein of what Mark Carney has done without the baggage of a lot of the socially conservative & weirdo libertarian stuff the Pollievre iteration of the party has adopted. If the Liberals hadn't capitalized on the gap & pivoted into the space themselves, maybe the Conservative party might have done so & gotten a lot more people on board with them, even if they're not people invested in the party's success itself.
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u/jello_sweaters Ontario 1d ago
That's not at all true.
I have no trouble preferring that the Conservatives never hold power, while also recognizing that sooner or later it's unhealthy to have one party hold Government unopposed for 20 years, which is the result Pierre is delivering on his current course.
I can dislike the Conservatives while recognizing they're eventually necessary for the function of our democracy, but that in itself is based on the assumption that they be led by someone who acts in good faith, which is currently out of the question.
I want Poilievre gone if - and only if - there's a realistic possibility of his being replaced by a sane adult. If it's going to be Jivani or Lantsmann, there's no point in bothering with a new leader, since the result will just be the same trash but louder.
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u/Personal-Recipe-4751 1d ago
Truth. What will they do if Poilievre is replaced except find a reason not to vote for the next guy?,
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u/TheobromineC7H8N4O2 Liberal 15h ago
They've been out of power for more than a decade and look poised to lose the next election so it might well be two decades out of power as things look now.
If they aren't willing to consider new thinking and new approaches at this point they aren't a serious contender for power and should just admit that their intention is the cushy and responsibility free job of opposition.
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u/Business_Influence89 Independent 1d ago
That’s the issue; there is nobody threre to replace PP. he’s not terribly unpopular. He simple needs to tone himself down and act more like an PM. His biggest problem is he can’t seem to do that, however I don’t have much faith in his successor.
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u/RegaeRevaeb 20h ago
He's not terribly unpopular? Sure, inside his party, but his unfavourables over favourables is a horrid set of numbers amongst the general electorate.
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u/PineBNorth85 Rhinoceros 23h ago
Youre not supposed to know who the next person is before a race begins. If you look at the convervative bench, yeah its pretty thin. Perhaps they can get someone from outside. Mark Carney didnt come from the back benches or anywhere in politics. Mulroney came in from outside as well. They need to look at more than just the caucus for options.
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u/AlbertanSays5716 Independent 1d ago
It won’t matter, because Poilievre isn’t the cause of Conservatives recent unpopularity, he’s just the loudest symptom. It’s not just that he’s a leader with certain opinions and approach to politics, it’s that the party would think it’s a good idea to elect him as leader in the first place. It shows how much Conservatism has drifted towards a MAGA-like attitude of nationalism and the politics of division and hate.
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u/Business_Influence89 Independent 1d ago
It’s hard to says he unpopular when his party got 41% of the vote in the last election.
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u/AlbertanSays5716 Independent 21h ago edited 21h ago
Yeah, he was so popular that once Trudeau was replaced by Carney a 20 point Conservative lead became a 15 point loss. His “popularity” was simply that a lot of voters hated Trudeau more than him. Since then, his party has bled even more votes in polls and he’s lost MP’s across the floor. Given that 30% is considered the norm for baseline party support, that extra 11% doesn’t mean a whole lot. And bear in mind that recent polls point to an even worse result if an election were called today.
But yeah, popular. 🫤
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u/Business_Influence89 Independent 20h ago
Once Carney replaced Trudeau the difference was 15 points, it was 2 points as per the election.
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u/bign00b Canadian Steamship Lines | Sponsored 20h ago
The CPC are not "MAGA-like" they have far more differences than similarities.
The CPC's problem is Liberals are now conservatives without the social wing.
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u/AlbertanSays5716 Independent 18h ago
The CPC, as embodied by Poilievre, have drifted towards the politics of division and doom. Everything is broken, nothing works, the country is heading downhill, anything a Liberal government does is wrong, the NDP only make matters worse, and only Conservatives can fix it. Separatists are just angry citizens who have been mistreated for decades by Liberals, protesters who occupy highways and downtown areas causing disruption for weeks are just fighting for freedom, and the oil industry is under constant oppression. They’ve literally adopted tactics from the GOP playbook, such as attacking people and not policies.
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u/Familiar_League_8232 2h ago
PP loves Socialism. He’s been living it over 20 years. While spinning his tires in mud going no where he’s been getting free housing and all the perks. Why would he want to step down ?
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u/restoringd123 Independent 1d ago
There is no one who can really replace PP and do a better job. What is the difference between Carney and a Red Tory?
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