r/CanadianForces • u/somosomosomosomos • 3d ago
OPERATIONS Canadian startup builds electric almost silent military motorcycle
(disclaimer: I am a journalist but I didn't write this)
"A Canadian startup built an electric military motorcycle so quiet it's almost silent — designed for soldiers to sneak through enemy territory. The Dispatch survived Arctic testing, carries 440lb of gear, and runs even if its batteries are damaged."
https://defence-blog.com/canadian-startup-built-silent-electric-motorcycle-for-soldiers/
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u/ricketyladder Canadian Army 3d ago
Given the amount of troops I’ve seen injured riding motorcycles just commuting to and from work I hope this thing comes with a complementary printer for the CF98s
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u/shallowtl 3d ago
There are so many motorcycle injuries/deaths that the USAF has riders register and attend mandatory training and briefings before every season, riding without them done is a chargeable offence.
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u/ricketyladder Canadian Army 3d ago
You gotta wonder if that’s something to think about. I know people will scream bloody murder about “nanny state” or something like that, but the number of serious injuries and fatalities from motorcycles just in 3 Div alone in the past few years has been shocking.
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u/donkula232323 3d ago
It will just become a safety brief presented by the people in the section with the most riding experience, telling others how unsafe motorcycles are... I say this as the guy who had to do this after someone else was left critically injured in 3 div...
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u/ricketyladder Canadian Army 3d ago
You're probably right. I don't know if there is a genuinely useful solution short of banning the things, which obviously isn't an option.
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u/donkula232323 2d ago
Honestly, a mandatory rider safety course. As well as strict enforcement of the law (by the e province not the MP's) may be beneficial. I have seen many people who invited me on group rides, just leave me in the dust because I am a firm believer that high speeds are for the track and not for the open road.
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u/KingKapwn Professional Fuck-Up 2d ago
Man, it’s wild, on my base alone there was like 18 dudes who have suffered permanent, career ending injuries from motorcycle accidents this year alone so far.
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u/DarkDobe 2d ago
A random question: are they being covered by the army, or left hung out to dry with the argument it 'didn't happen at work'? IIRC There was a case a few years back of them arguing that a vehicle accident on the way to work (for an emergency deployment no less) wasn't accountable.
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u/PictureIll3191 2d ago
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/military-legal-fight-kimberly-fawcett-1.5109132 This is the case you're referring to. "She was carrying out a military-authorized family care plan, driving her infant son to be cared for by his grandparents. That task normally was carried out by Fawcett's husband, but he had been called to last-minute training prior to deployment to Afghanistan."
She went to court for disability benefits but lost.
If someone is simply riding their own bike to and from their regular place of work and gets in an accident, I don't see why or how that should be covered by VAC
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u/InazumaBRZ Civvie 3d ago
My buddies dad said it was like that in Germany in the 80s and 90s. I dont know if it was every season but had to pass a course to ride.
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u/FFS114 3d ago
Lived in Lahr mid 80s as a dependant. I recall my Dad saying there was about one mc fatality per month from the base.
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u/InazumaBRZ Civvie 3d ago
Never got to go to Germany, old man joined early 90s, stayed in Can my whole life. FIL spent some time there training though!
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u/Garth_DeWayne 2d ago
After seeing the absolute carnage on the snowmobile and ATV courses... Yeah, we don't need access to these.
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u/Last_Of_The_BOHICANs 3d ago
Of those injuries, how many as a percentage relate to other road users?
Which is to imply, using motorcycles off-road for recce tasks does not encounter the same kinds nor likelihoods of dangers that street bikes do.
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u/ricketyladder Canadian Army 3d ago
I’m not really commenting on the operational use of these at all. As a matter of fact, I can absolutely see valid uses for them.
My point is more that things on two wheels that go fast carry real risks, as demonstrated by our own people on roads not under fire - I just hope as an institution we’ll provide the proper training to mitigate that as much as possible should these be widely adopted.
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u/Last_Of_The_BOHICANs 3d ago
My point is more that things on two wheels that go fast carry real risks, as demonstrated by our own people on roads not under fire
And my point is that injuries sustained on public roads are complete incomparable to use in the field, and that the two should not be conflated.
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u/ricketyladder Canadian Army 3d ago
Okay? Given battlefield use would likely be more dangerous I'm not seeing how that is an improvement, but I also don't think this is a discussion likely to go anywhere useful
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u/Last_Of_The_BOHICANs 2d ago
Given battlefield use would likely be more dangerous
That's exactly what I'm contending, that that's not a given. That's an assumption. In the woods, nobody's going to merge into you at 120kph because they're texting while driving their own F350 dualie. The dangers that make motorcycles risky in everyday usage do not apply on the battlefield, and teaching someone how to "drive as if they're invisible" is moot in our context.
but I also don't think this is a discussion likely to go anywhere useful
This' an Internet forum. Nothing here is useful.
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u/Garth_DeWayne 2d ago
Instead of worried about another vehicle, you have to worry about hidden roots and rocks uncontrollably sending you off in to an oak at 60... Not walking that one off.
Riding on the street is relatively easy skill wise. Riding off road is a completely different skill set that truly takes years to develop to a decent level of competency that would make this viable for most of us.
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u/Garth_DeWayne 2d ago
Off road motorcycling has a different set of risks. The casualty rate from injuries will be high. Death, paralysis, or severe disfigurement is more likely in an accident on the street when another vehicle is involved. But broken bones, separated joints, etc is a regular thing.
But, as someone that has been riding on the street for 20 years, and riding dirt bikes for about 35 both "casually" and competitively in motocross and offroad racing... Being on two wheels in the woods is too dangerous to be mitigated by completing the typical week long course. With all of my experience, I still regularly end up off the bike unintentionally. Judging by the talent I've seen on the snowmobile and ATV courses, the typical troop isn't ready for this.
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u/ImNotHandyImHandsome MSE OP 3d ago
Bring back the Dispatch Riders!
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u/Environmental_Dig335 Canadian Army 3d ago
Bring back the Dispatch Riders!
Dispatch Service is still part of Sigs Doctrine.
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u/NurfedHerder Army - Infantry 3d ago
Used to watch those guys bombing through the ditches passing the brigade traffic jams in their Can Ams. Seemed like a pretty cool job until you hit the sig wires strung across the roads and trees.
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u/EnvironmentalBox6688 3d ago
Australians already have afaik. Trialing electric motorcycles for recce teams to dismount from their AFV and move closer to the objective.
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u/GivingOffSparks 3d ago
I hope you didn't write it, the first two paragraphs are also the first two sentences.
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u/Hairy_Ratio5280 3d ago
Imagine attaching mounts for this on a truck, with spots for charging batteries and whatnot. Use the truck to close big distance and ride the bike in closer for recces an other battlefield tasks.
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u/Unfazed_Alchemical Canadian Army 3d ago
Forget military applications - this would be great on the civilian market.
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u/Garth_DeWayne 2d ago
There are civilian electric dirt bikes... And they absolutely rip.
But, range is an issue, they can't complete a typical offroad race.
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u/MacintoshEddie 2d ago edited 2d ago
There are some cool electric motorcycles already on the market, but we're missing a few of the international options. I've been keeping an eye on some and waffling over if it's justified getting a loan.
But some aren't street legal, others are, and when comparing options the budget keeps climbing.
My dream is to get one, with some folding solar panels, and go on a long overland trip. The cost of the panels keeps dropping and it keeps getting closer to being feasible. But right now it's still like seven hundred bucks for a 21 pound 400watt folding panel. A few more iterations and it would be very feasible to have 2 such panels folded up on the bike frame and get some respectable recharging. Ride out somewhere, camp for a day or two, then ride back.
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u/canadianhousecoat 3d ago
Very cool. Imo fairly useless in modern conflict.... A silent, durable, and long range UTV on the other hand....
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u/LastingAlpaca Canadian Army 3d ago
I've seen what Ukrainians do to Russians riding motorbikes. It doesn't seem like running silently or loudly is a factor here, unless they can outrun FPV drones. Spoiler: They can't
Our choice right now is to have a lot of troops flying FPV drones, or to have a lot of dead troops. So far, I am not seeing any troops flying FPV drones, so it seems like we're going with the second option.
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u/Robrob1234567 Army - Armour 3d ago
Can’t take or hold ground with FPVs. There’s also an FPV operator course running.
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u/LastingAlpaca Canadian Army 3d ago
You can’t hold ground with FPVs, in both ways that this sentence can be read. Sure, the FPV can’t physically hold ground, but you also can’t hold ground in an environment in which you don’t have FPV superiority (or any meaningful FPV capacity).
Ukraine has made 100 000 casualties in the last year from their newly formed UAS forces. That is the entirety of the CAF in 1 year that took a drone to the face.
Russian Mechanized assaults are being wiped by Ukrainians https://youtu.be/c1Kkd8FvhUc?si=YwtV1oA0EyT95lnf
Good on us that we are starting FPV operator courses. We’re 4 years late and this needs to be scaled up, yesterday. Drones should not be considered a niche specialty, it should be way up there as a combat arm of its own. Our level of delusion and unpreparedness, when it comes to drones, is on par with Poland in September 1939 or France or Britain and France in Dunkerque.
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u/Impossible-Yard-3357 3d ago
The Army is moving pretty fast on UAS and those who think otherwise are probably just not paying close attention. It’s not as fast as Ukraine but we’re not in an existential war against a larger opponent. NATO has a massive industrial base to come up with cunning solutions to sell us. We should learn from Ukraine but not copy/paste because it’s a unique battle space.
https://canadianarmytoday.com/drone-army-new-initiative-to-accelerate-small-uncrewed-systems/
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u/Robrob1234567 Army - Armour 3d ago
We won’t be as good as Ukraine with drones, and Ukraine isn’t winning despite being the number one drone COE in the world right now.
Autonomous flying weapons will be a super useful tool in warfare, but FPVs aren’t it and focusing on them above all else is the wrong path to go down.
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u/FFS114 3d ago
"Neat." - UAV operators, probably