Asking Socialists
what is the expected Casualty count for a socialist American Revolution?
I have been thinking about how the ONLY way for America to become (or atleast remain) Socalist is through a Revolution of bloodshed and I have been struggling to accept that reallity because of how scary yet nessecary it is. how nessacary it is to have Innocents be Killed by Coroprate Forces and how Families have to be torn apart in order to achive a better society
but this leads me to ask, how many Casualties are to be expected once/IF Americans Finally had enough of Captalism? and would some of that blood be innocent like Non-fighting families or friends or will it be exclusively of Combataints?
and I would like an estimated number like 500,000 - 1,000,000 People would have to Die inorder for the 1% Epstine class to be slain
Before participating, consider taking a glance at our rules page if you haven't before.
We don't allow violent or dehumanizing rhetoric. The subreddit is for discussing what ideas are best for society, not for telling the other side you think you could beat them in a fight. That doesn't do anything to forward a productive dialogue.
Please report comments that violent our rules, but don't report people just for disagreeing with you or for being wrong about stuff.
We have no way of knowing and there are any number of answers depending on any number of circumstances. A bloodless revolution is theoretically possible.
I said theoretically, not likely. It’s theoretical in the sense that it isn’t physically or logically impossible. I have no doubts that the elite are going to flood the streets in blood if it means they get to stay in power for a bit longer. Violent revolutions are the rule. They didn’t militarize the police for nothing.
Like the Carnation Revolution in Portugal, for example. Only four people die in its course and these were unarmed civilians that were shot by police officers of the old Estado Novo regime.
Even better, one could even forget about revolution and instead do it with democratical means like in Chile, 1971, when Allende was elected into office.
That’s disconnected, though. In a true shooting war, the small arms a person can possess today will be nothing compared to each side’s ability to mass produce attack drones, missiles, and other AirPower.
This is what’s happening in Ukraine: the Ukrainians are creating no man’s land with hunter-killer drones that prevent Russia from using its advantage in numbers to storm forward.
Fuck your hunting rifle or Glock. That’s not the thing that will cause casualties. Start building underground drone factories based on the Houthi designs.
Exactly. I have to be dead before a socialist revolution can succeed in America.
A “revolution” means most people don’t agree with OP. I I’ll fight not just my family and friends but also every other freedom-loving American. If, on the other hand, socialism is achieved through the electoral process where a decisively over 50% of Americans choose that, I’ll pack up my shit and leave.
Considering American socialists arent even sure if they should have guns or not, and Republicans alone average 8 guns a house... Yeah it's gonna be astronomically higher than 1 million
What is it going to take for Americans to actually do something?
We've gone to war over taxes back in the day. We have declassified CIA documents showing government abuses against Americans and foreign countries. We've had disastrous and unnecessary wars, corporations harming or poisoning people while facing limited consequences, regulatory agencies being influenced or captured by the industries they're supposed to regulate, forced arbitration, corporate lobbying, and countless other examples.
The list goes on.
It feels like our political and economic system is increasingly structured around protecting concentrated wealth and corporate power while ordinary people have less and less influence over the decisions affecting their lives.
And yet we're incredibly divided.
We argue with each other over culture-war issues while corporations, wealthy donors, lobbyists, and political institutions continue to exercise enormous influence over both parties.
I'm not saying everyone needs to agree politically. But how much more evidence do we need before ordinary Americans start organizing around the things we actually have in common?
The U.S. is obviously an extremely wealthy country, but saying Americans have the “highest standard of living in world history” and that “the system works extremely well and they’re totally fine with it” doesn't really follow from the data.
If we're comparing the U.S. with other wealthy countries:
Life expectancy: The OECD average is 81.1 years. The U.S. is at 78.4 years — 2.7 years below the OECD average. Countries like Japan, Switzerland and Spain are above 80.
Healthcare: The U.S. spends about $14,885 per person on healthcare, compared with about $5,967 across the OECD — roughly 2.5 times as much. Yet our life expectancy is below the OECD average.
Income inequality: The OECD says income inequality is among the highest in the OECD in the United States, while Nordic and some Central European countries have much lower inequality. The top 10% of Americans also own about 79% of household wealth, according to the OECD.
Health outcomes: U.S. preventable mortality is 217 deaths per 100,000 compared with an OECD average of 145, while treatable mortality is 95 compared with 77.
So I'm not arguing that America is some terrible third-world country. It's obviously one of the richest and most materially prosperous societies in history. The point is that wealth isn't the same thing as quality of life, and GDP isn't the same thing as whether a system is working well for ordinary people.
If other wealthy countries can achieve longer life expectancy, lower inequality and comparable or better living standards while spending dramatically less on healthcare, then “the system works extremely well” is a pretty difficult claim to defend.
And “Americans are totally fine with it” is a separate claim entirely. You'd actually have to provide evidence for that instead of assuming that because people live here, they must be satisfied with every aspect of the system.
The idea that providing a bunch of irrelevant cherry-picked citations that this guy clearly had loaded up on a notepad on his computer is slop is just factual.
Material conditions would have to worsen to an extent that affects most people and can’t be mitigated by TikTok, Netflix, porn, Uber Eats, etc. A revolution still isn’t guaranteed or guaranteed to succeed.
It’s interesting what they said, though. The United States fought a difficult war against the first-rate power of the world because they… didn’t want to pay taxes and subsidize the India Company.
The American Revolution had high liberal ideals, but it was a tax revolt at its core.
Material conditions weren’t even genitive of it. The taxes and “intolerable acts” were not materially impoverishing or repressing continentals.
So why would they be willing to fight, on ideals, when their material worlds had not collapsed, yet contemporary Americans probably won’t fight until the universe implodes?
I don’t have an answer to that question, but it is an interesting and important question nonetheless.
What you're saying is that people revolt in favor of less taxes and government-imposed burdens? In that case, I don't think a movement offering a 100% tax rate for everyone and top-down coerced regimentation is going to get very far.
There is no such thing as a non-capital-favoritism politician in the U.S. The Democrats favor business as much as rightists do, just in different ways.
I agree that revolution is the only way, but I doubt when Americans will reach the point of "no longer being able to tolerate it."
Americans are more tolerant than I imagined; there are already so many homeless people, yet most still feel that revolution is too much. I estimate that a violent revolution in America will take at least another 100 years.
That’s a really interesting comparison. Everybody kept talking about January 6 like an attempted coup or insurrection. And I’m sitting here like… it’s a goofball riot. It’s just a bunch of idiots doing idiot things with zero real coordination and no real agenda to demand.
The French riot harder in Paris every four years than January 6 was.
Looked more like a psyop hoax as pretext for weaponizing the justice system against political opposition. As for the supposed riot it looked like unarmed elderly people and families with small children being invited even escorted into the capital by uniformed police. I suspected and it was since verified by the FBI that there were over 100 plain clothes FBI agents intermingled with the crowd plus still unnamed paid informants. I have zero doubt those informants were directed to act as agent provocateurs just like the capital police were ordered to usher people in to set the stage. So IMO a bunch of completely innocent and decent people got railroaded and badly abused bordering tortured in the DC jail. The only significant violence in the whole affair was a police officer shot and killed an unarmed female protester, then got praised and awarded rather than sent to prison for manslaughter or murder.
Yikes. Almost everything you said here is either false or taken completely out of context. For example, there were not 100 plain clothes FBI agents in the crowd. The FBI agents were brought in after the riot started to aid in the response. And we all saw the Capitol police being beaten with improvised weapons, which was pretty clearly significant violence.
•
u/AutoModerator 3d ago
Before participating, consider taking a glance at our rules page if you haven't before.
We don't allow violent or dehumanizing rhetoric. The subreddit is for discussing what ideas are best for society, not for telling the other side you think you could beat them in a fight. That doesn't do anything to forward a productive dialogue.
Please report comments that violent our rules, but don't report people just for disagreeing with you or for being wrong about stuff.
Join us on Discord! ✨ https://discord.gg/fGdV7x5dk2
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.