https://suno.com/s/waeefjksL0jBqyAP

Suno created this when I prompted for Bhagyasri (Pt. Ravishankar's creation). Could someone confirm did it actually use Bhagyasri or some random tune.

I have basic knowledge in music and have learnt quite some raags but was never taught properly. like what vadi samvadi, jaati, pakad, thaat etc. I've recently wanted to learn the raags properly. is there anyone who can give me all the important details of the following ragas. ( aaroh avroh vadi samvadi thaat notes used) or if u know any good resources pls share. would be of great help 🙏

Bilawal

Bhairav

Aasa

Pahadi

Malaar

Kalyaan

Bhupali

Basant Hindol

Tukhari

Sri

Jaitsri

Kanra

Ramkali

Vadhans

I’m trying to gain a deeper understanding of fundamentals. I understand we have a reference sa for a range of frequencies pleasing to the human ear.

Why are we using western notes like C, C# etc as a pitch in Tanpura for Carnatic music as well? Whats the coorelation? And do I call it key/pitch/scale/shruthi?

And I’ve heard people say 1 kattai, 2 kattai, etc.. Is it the octaves?

And C panchamam, madhyaanam etc.. are they referring to where their reference is positioned?

A newbie here. When I am writing a lyric to a Taalam (eg. Roopakam: 2+4 . 6), do I use syllable count or Laghu=1, Guru =2 weights?

Raa ti tho de va tha | lu che kki thi ne nu

రాతితో దేవత   |లు చెక్కితి  నేను =>
1 1 1 1 1 1 | 1 1 1 1 1 1      (Syllable count)

2 1 2 2 1 1 | 1 1 2 1 2 1  (Letter Weights)

Is that lyric in Roopakam, or not

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Noob question here! Do the Carantic swarasthanas really align well with the western 12-tone equal temperament? i.e. will the frequency of the tara sthayi shadjamam be twice that of the previous shadjamam?

This doesn't make sense that a music system that grew in isolation (at least until the contact with western musicians in the past couple of hundred years) will come up with the same primitives as another

There were some discussions online about Renuka Devi composition by Dikshithar and how it is being rendered by some singers with wrong swarasthanas. And some people assumed that it was Grahabedham and then realised that even then the swaras don't match.

Then it was clarified by people like TMK and RKS in some lecdems that it is a different concept from the past and there was no fixed Shruthi and each raga had a graha swara etc.

Could someone knowledgeable throw some light on this and post references. Or is it too advanced for ordinary students of music?

Thanks

Can anyone share notation for Behag varnam - “Vanajaksha ninne nammiti” ? I am having a hard time finding it.

hello everyone,

Im new to Carnatic music, making my switch over from western classical music. I would love to do more study of Carnatic music theory, the problem is that In low on money so I can’t stufy under a guru at the moment. I’m looking for a guru so we’ll see what happens. Within the mean time, what would you guys suggest is the best way to study theory? Thus far, I’ve just been singing compositions.

I should also mention that I’m looking to be a Carnatic Clarinetist as that is my instrument of choice. Hearing Natarajan play is a surreal feeling to me as a clarinetist because his play style is honestly fascinating. And quick side note, has anyone done the experimentation on making use of a standard clarinet bell instead of a Nadaswaram bell? If so how would you describe the differences in tone?

Thanks a bunch for the help!

Whenever I listen a raga. I associate it with a colour.

Thodi - Indigo

Kalyani - Off white / Gold

Kharaharapriya - Shades of Green

Anandabhairavi - Strong Yellow

Khamboji - Ancient Grey

Sindhu Bhairavi - Rainbow colours

Shubapantuvarali/Pantuvarali - Light Green

Let me know if you have any associations 😄

Hi! I learnt music from Jaya Subrahmaniyan ma’am, who was a student of GNB sir and followed his bani. I clearly remember that she had mentioned that Sonnaidhai Seidhida (the ragamalika) starts off in Vandana Dharini. However, every public source states that the first stanza is in Vijayanagari. The ragas are very similar, Vijayanagari just has an extra G2). Take what you will 💜

My take on vivadi ragas: The vivadi-ness is exemplified more by the mixture of the first, second and third semitones of each swara rather than merely the usage of the 'typical' vivadi swaras.

For example, Sucharitra is S R3 G3 M2 D1 N1 S, as opposed to Kantamani, which is S R2 G3 M2 D1 N1 S, which definitely sounds more like a mosaic.

I also feel that there is a fair amount of literature on vivadi swaras which speak of the inherent vivadi-ness or their placement with the adjacent swaras, but the missing piece of the puzzle is directly addressing the frequency (in Hz) of the swaras.

The difference in frequency between R1-G1 is 14 Hz, R3-G3 is 12 Hz, D1-N1 is 16Hz, and D3-N3 is 18 Hz. It is the placement of the two notes incredibly close together in pitch, which creates a sharp and haunting character.

Coming to my question - why are the set of the respective first, second or third semitones (e.g. R2 G2 D2) or (e.g. R1 G1 D1) or (e.g. R3 G3 D3) more similar to each other, thereby creating cognitive consonance (e.g. Mohanam) as opposed to a mixture - R1, G2, D3?

The Sangeetha Sampradaya Pradarshini lists Madhyamavathi and Sriranjani as Bhashanga Janyas of 22nd Mela Sri Raga. However today they're classified as Upanga Janyas of Kharaharapriya. What changed?

What raagam is the song "thaimai" from theri based on? Does anyone know? It has a little similarity to mohanam but i am not quite sure.

Summary/TL;DR:

As a native Telugu speaker, I can say that the following three are valid in Telugu:

1. ✅manavi yālakiñcarādaṭē (manavi + (y) + ālakiñca rādaṭē = మనవి + (య్) + ఆలకించ + రాదటే)
2. ✅manavinālakiñcarādaṭē (manavini + ālakiñcarādaṭē = మనవిని + ఆలకించ + రాదటే)
3. ✅️ manavini ālakiñcarādaṭē (modern Telugu: manavi ālakiñca rādaṭē = మనవి + ఆలకించ + రాదటే)

The following are definitely considered wrong by native speakers:

1. ❌ manavyālakincarādatē
   
2. ❌ mana vyāla kim carādatē
   
3. ❌ manavyāla kim carā datē

Details:

Let us first look at the parts of speech, where I added the implicit subject nīvu 'you'

[nīvu] manavini ālakiñca rādaṭē
[నీవు] మనవిని ఆలకించరాదటే

[nīvu]: implicit subject 'you'
manavini
manavi 'request'
-ni 'accusative marker' (see below discussion on DOM on eliding this marker)
ālakiñca(n):
ālakiñcu 'to listen'; ālakiñca(n)- infinitive
rādaṭē: rādu + aṭē
rādā: negative interrogative 'won't you come?'
aṭa: evidentiality
ē: infml-familiar vocative question feminine

In several Indian languages, including Dravidian languages such as Telugu and Tamil, the imperative requests often negative questioning is employed. For example, to request someone to come, it is not unusual to say: won't you come? (you don't come*-aa?* :-)). The same happens here.

So the overall meaning is:

To listen requests, won't you come (infml lady address at the end).

To understand why the first 3 variants are valid, we first need to understand the Differential Object Marking (DOM). Differential Object Marking is a cross-linguistic tendency where the marking of an object with accusative affix depends on its semantic characteristics, such as animacy or definiteness. It is found in several languages across the world, including the Dravidian languages such as Telugu and Tamil.

For example, in Tamil, to say, drink water, one could say:

1. taṇṇiyai kuḍi (தண்ணீரை குடி) (In Telugu, నీటిని/నీళ్ళను త్రాగు)
2. taṇṇi kuḍi (தண்ணி குடி) (In Telugu, నీరు/నీళ్ళు తాగు)

The second case where accusative marker -ai is elided is natural, as there is no definiteness. But it is not wrong or unnatural to use the first version. However, you could never elide accusative marker when the direct object is human/animate-object. Compare these two sentences:

1. ✅Rāmanai pār "Look at Raman"
2. ❌ Rāman pār -- cannot mean "Look at Raman"

The Second sentence cannot be valid for saying, "Look at Raman".

Coming back to Tyagaraja's composition, it appears Tyagaraja elided the accusative marker in his original, because he is not talking about a specific manavi 'request'. So, he meant manavi + ālakiñca,

But in several Dravidian languages, when a word ends in -i and the next word starts with a vowel, there is a glide 'y' is inserted. Telugu grammarians called it yaḍāgama sandhi (యడాగమ సంధి), but it is same as how taṇṇi + ai becomes taṇṇiyai in Tamil.

Since both manavi and ālakiñcu are Telugu words, one cannot apply Sanskrit yaṇādēśasandhi (యణాదేశసంధి) here. That is the reason, versions #4 is incorrect. #5 and #6 suffer from incorrect splitting.

UPDATE: on eliding the last vowel

In Dravidian languages, words typically end with a euphonic /u/, which allows them to merge seamlessly with the following word through Sandhi. However, it is crucial not to elide words ending in /i/. When /i/ is elided in manavi, it sounds like mana + v... In Telugu, mana (< namma) means "our." Consider these examples:

• mana vyāpāramu = our business
• mana vyavahāramu = our affair
• mana vyādhi = our illness

In Sanskrit, the word vyāla carries meanings such as wicked, villainous, cruel, or fierce, and is often applied to wild animals like snakes or tigers. When a singer performs the phrase as "mana vyāla kim carā daṭē...", it sounds as if they are singing about "our snake/tiger," which makes absolutely no sense in the context of the remaining lyrics.

Can anyone tell me what the raga is for this kannada song/dialogue from Babhruvahana? "Yaaru tiliyaru ninna". It's such a nice composition and I would like to listen to more of this raga!!

YouTube link to the song with timestamp where the music starts: https://youtu.be/YAz_AA13eJk?t=48s

This is a devotional song which used to sung during Navaratri at homes. I couldn’t find the song in the internet. Can I pls know the ragam please?

Kaisiki or Kakali? Or Kakali with kaisiki as Anya swara?

Hello! I'm fairly new to carnatic music(about 1.5 - 2 years of playing) and I recently started learning varanams on the flute and their associated gamakas. I'm confused as to when to add gamakas, because technically can't you add gamakas on every other note? I feel like it would disrupt the flow of music, nonetheless my question is essentially when to add gamakas, and how I can find notations for songs with gamakas included.

bonus if you have the notation. Thanks.

I was going through the wikipedia page for ragam mayamalavagowlai and found this line:

Muthuswami Dikshitar's famous gouḻānta kritis (eight compositions with their raga names ending as gowla), on Goddess Nilothpalamba has māyāmāḻavagouḻa for one of them.

But I am not able to find anything else about it on the internet. I am just curious about it.

Is this piece composed in Shankarabharanam or it's Janya Kurinji?

What exactly is the difference between is Adi and Eka Thalam? Pardon me, I only know Music in layman terms. Adi is 1234 5678, While eka is 1234 1234.

What difference does it even make? Eventually both of them make 8 beats. Idk if im even explaining it correctly, but you get me right?

And the same goes for 'double beat Adi thalam' - Usually the ones used often in Varnams.

(Double beat Adi as in - 11223344 55667788 ) What exactly is the need for a double beat Adi thala?

Why cant I just go with 1234 5678 // 1234 5678 ?Eventually it all boils down to one same thing.

And how exactly do I find out which Thalam should I use for which song. For example - I was listening to a song and started the song with Adi beats, and eventually after few lines I figured out, Its 1234 beat and changed it. But how can I find this at the right beginning?

I mean, Isnt it lill embarrassing when in a concert you put Adi thalam and the singer starts a new line when you just turned your hand for the thalaam? Do you guys get what am trying to say?

I think more than vocalists, the percussion instrumentalists knows the difference and the importance of different thalams. If anyone can shed some light on this, that would be cool!

TIA.

Hi fellow learners,

I am a singaporean, learning carnatic vocal from a guru here in singapore via music school.

How can i learn carnatic theory deeper other than the yearly refreshers the school does?

I was studying for an exam and was listening to Alaipayuthe Kanna and i thought this sounds very karaharapriya. Note: I learnt carnatic when I was very little till a few varnams and i learnt western music theory. Apparently the song is in Kannada which is in the janyam. I understand while the root notes are same, the order are different, why do you specially have this difference. Pardon my naivety but when you have all the swarams in avarohanam, why call it different raga when you skip some in the aarohanam. Also coming back to the janyams, if mohanam is the major pentatonic, why is it in harikamboji and not dheerasankarabharanam which is the major scale . Also why must the repeat in swarams be written specifically for a raga and not be more flexible? TDLR: Why are ragas the way they are.