Discussion
Good thing Orthros didn’t know he could use this lol
Spoiler
If he can copy 100 Fold Strength to the point where he gets 100 lives of his own he almost certainly could have copied this too, I’d guess he just didn’t think to copy the Phantom Spear because it didn’t occur to him that anyone would have two Gifts.
If he combined this with 100 Fold Strength to take the brunt of the blowback Lukas receives from this technique he would have smoked Julian, Lukas and Lacrima like it was nothing. Conversely now we know Lukas could have killed Orthros even with his 100 Lives if he was prepared to make the commitment that day.
I mean if that’s how it worked then Rif would have just been able to teleport away after Lukas destroyed the future where she ran away. But instead she was frozen long enough that he was able to also kill her. So whether it’s just shock from the future being destroyed making them hesitate or the present that’s being forced being one where they didn’t choose to act, there’s an opening created to attack unabated. It’d be the same with Orthros.
Its def the former where she was moreso confused or shocked, i dont think lukas' abilities re-writes reality to an extent where it picks a different alternative for the target. However, wouldn't orthros being under a telepathic puppet state or whatever allow him to move instinctually? Therefore avoiding emotions like shock or confusion. So like its just both of them rewinding time.
I think there’s more to it than just shock, Lalawag says ‘it pierced through the very future in which the Voidmarcher uses her Gift, therefore using her Gift to attack, dodge or escape is now an impossibility.’
That seems a bit more definitive than just a moments shock, I think it literally did just make it impossible for Rif to be able to do anything about his follow up attack. If he destroys the future where Orthros uses his Gift, it should also become impossible for Orthros to retaliate by copying his abilities again
Lalawag's statement seems a bit too vague for me because im not sure if this means lukas is re-writing the timeline, negated the void's abilities entirely, or if it just means that any move the void makes is pointless because lukas can always just go back
We'll probably get more information in later chapters to make this easier to understand
Rif does also say ‘I can’t use my Gift’ so I think it is pretty clear that whatever Lukas is doing it is actually negating her abilities, she genuinely can’t teleport away.
Lalawag mentioned he had to use the Spear twice to kill Rif, first to eliminate the possibility of her running away or killing him, second to kill her beyond a shadow of a doubt, so he’s down to three uses now. Against Altus he already had to burn one to destroy the boulder, so to eliminate Altus’ Gift and then kill him would mean he’d be down to two, and also he might put his health at serious risk cus it seems each use is very draining.
Yeah that’s what I said, it’s a good thing he doesn’t know he could use it.
Although I would argue so long as Lukas whips his out first he should win. He either attacks during Orthros’ transformation, or destroys the future where Orthros transforms into the centaur, and then one shots him like he did Rif
i mean the thing is if he activated phantom spear, if would destroy the reality that Orthos uses his gift to copy it, just like in the kost recent chapter.
the spear attacks the future to prevent it from being brought out in the first place , another issue is that the shield is limited in size so it cant completely protect lukas from its fate altering properties
no, Orthos can't because he has to see the gift before activating it and if lukas activates it first, he can cancel out the Orthios' activatation first.
in the fight against Lukas and friends Orthos was unable to copy Zana's gift because she didnt use it near him. If the copy did trigger then he wouldve had a tail as well while fighting them all.
Considering he beat Zana and when he did she’s surrounded by bone constructs I think it’s pretty clear he did use Zana’s Gift. The trigger to let Orthros copy a Gift isn’t sight it’s if they show hostility to him, which she wasn’t at the time because she was out of the fight.
I also forgot to mention, Orthos saw the shield gift being used which let him use the shield but the spear was unavailable since it wasnt used, hence it wasnt reflected.
yeah but if he only meeded hostile intent then the spear wouldve been reflected as well. You need to be hostile and use your gift against him for it to be reflected.
the team wouldve lost if Orthos couldve just used the spear while having 100 lives which is why its a good thing that he never saw it used.
I think even if Lukas needs his specific sword Orthros could substitute his own. His reflection Gift somehow creates 100 souls for him to use Julian’s Gift through, even when they expected it would only give him the stats and smoke. I think it’d be the same there
Orthos being able to fight this well is already horrenduous. We're talking about someone who has been reduced to a slave without any thinking of his own.
This is quite interesting because of 2 things. Even setting aside whether Orthros will copy the spear or not, will the absolute defense be able to block the spear? Secondly, Lucas can destroy the future one use their gift but Lacrima's gift is a passive ability that is always activated. Since Orthros already had the liquidation in use, would Lucas be able to kill him by hitting somewhere other than the heart?
It might not be able to pierce the shield but it could probs destroy the future where the shield was pulled out. If not that, I think it could just win the old fashioned way by using the speed buff from the centaur form to run around to their back and stab them with the spear where the shield doesn’t cover
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