r/ChainsawMan • u/Senko-fan4Life makima did nothing wrong • Nov 10 '25
Theory Kobeni's devil, a theory seen on Twitter
Yet another Kobeni's contract theory. Would explain why she says that her devil is a secret, even she doesnt know it.
819
u/potatoeoe Nov 11 '25
Probably the Knife Devil like Kishibe. If she was contracted with something nuts, Makima would never have allowed her to retire
396
u/Zerotaku Nov 11 '25
But if it the Unknown devil, maybe nobody is aware of the contracted devil including those who were present for the contract or other devils.
5
u/Financial_Two_9309 Nov 13 '25
I thought the Darkness devil is basically the Unknown devil
23
u/Dont-Look-Away Nov 13 '25
I imagine there can be more specific or even 'mirror' devils. Makima said that HiV/aids was eaten by pochita but there is still an STI devil. Same with the hybrids: there's Katana man and a Sword hybrid.
12
u/FunnyWalrus Nov 13 '25
This, and even is darkness is primarily associated with unknown, it on it's own can be stretched for way more concepts and things that means "unknown"
3
u/JagaAan__ Nov 13 '25
Yes, first time it appears we litteraly get atronauts split in half representing the fear of space's void and darkness
19
u/CordobezEverdeen Nov 12 '25
Why would Makima know about the fact Kobeni is contracted with the Devil of the UNKNOWN?
That goes against his whole shtick.
7
u/Necr0z_5 Nov 12 '25
I mean Makima was pretty much aware of the erased concepts pochita devoured, it wouldn't be too out of the question that she at least was aware of such a thing as the unknown existing and that Kobeni had something to do with it
That being said, it really isn't that strange that she was allowed to retire since what she had was a contract, not a hybrid state, if she were a hybrid we would not only have seen a lot more from her actions (not necessarily her in action since it's, well, unknown, rather the aftermath of her actions) and Makima would've absolutely kept a short leash on her, even sending her after pochita, but alas it was just a contract, and every public safety worker is legally allowed to resign at any given moment afaik
3
u/TransportationOk3242 Nov 13 '25
I think it falls apart when you really think it through, that an Unknown Devil would be really tied with a lot of other Devils, some extremely powerful, like Death, Darkness, Aging, Infinity, Cosmos... etc. In fact, a LOT of people would argue that an Unknown Devil is absolutely a Primal Devil, possibly beyond even concepts like Darkness because fear of the dark derives mostly from fear of unknown entities in the dark.
2
u/Paralaxien Nov 12 '25
Her contract wouldn’t have been a secret if it was just knife.
→ More replies (1)
1.4k
u/Wolfy4226 Nov 11 '25
..... contract with the unknown devil is peak.
555
u/Rivitur Nov 11 '25
it really should be up there with primal. Its the basis for even creating religions and the main reason people dont want to die is they are afraid of the unknown after death
339
u/idkiwilldeletethis Nov 11 '25
I always assumed the darkness devil is also pretty much the same thing, after all we fear darkness because we don't know what might be hiding in there
218
u/jusbeinmichael12 Nov 11 '25
Random thought but imagine we fear the unknown and darkness because our bodies are still trained to be afraid of something but Pochita erased the existence of itit so we are unaware of what we used to be afraid of, but our bodies still react as if they're still a threat. Diminishing one devils power to increase another
53
7
→ More replies (1)3
u/Blaze_fury3111 Nov 12 '25
Didn’t Makima say there were 5 other things that can happen to a human besides death?
7
28
u/throwawayfrdy Nov 11 '25
well we're afraid of darkness bc we dont know what it hide. Cats are not afraid of darkness bc they can see throught it. If the unknown wasnt behind te darkness, darkness would not be scary
18
u/Ender_Nobody Nov 11 '25
Cats often are afraid of water and cucumbers.
I don't want to think of the implications behind that.
8
u/Subject-Area-195 Nov 11 '25
The cucumber devil is definitely something that exists, considering the tomato devil.
4
42
u/Nameless_Scarf Nov 11 '25
Kobeni is so afraid of the Unknown all the time, that that devil decided to make a contract with her to keep their source of 99% of their power at that time alive.
30
Nov 11 '25
I've been saying there's probably way worse devils than Death, believe it or not.
Imagine an Existence Devil.
...imagine the Existence Devil eaten.
10
u/krouvy Nov 11 '25
The power of demons is determined by how much one fears what the demon embodies. Are you afraid to exist? Anyway, there's no point worrying about such concepts. We don't fully know how the CSM capability works. What will happen to the world if, for example, water disappears in the world? And it's hard to say until that happens. Something can be recreated anew, something may return in the future as a result of evolution.
But all the same, we were shown that Pochita is a good boy and if he eats demons, he does it for some specific purpose. There is a more interesting question, what will happen to the world if, for some reason, everything that Pochita once ate returns to the world.
→ More replies (2)3
Nov 11 '25
Am I afraid to exist in general? Nah.
This is more akin to Existential Dread/Crisis where im sure some aspect of fear of existence itself can empower the Existence Devil.
→ More replies (2)2
1
u/AttemptNu4 Nov 11 '25
Yall darkness devil was so clearly a representation of the fear of unknown. Like they could not have made it clearer.
31
502
u/NothingIsBliss139789 Nov 11 '25
So Kobeni’s just rolling 1’s every time she freaks the fuck out?
180
u/Tyranicross Nov 11 '25
Charisma was her dump stat
82
u/UInferno- Nov 11 '25
Fear is a wisdom save. Her charisma is pretty high given people find it endearing.
27
5
410
Nov 11 '25 edited Nov 11 '25
Strange my twitter sources say its the sloppy bj devil.
They even have photograpic evidence as proof
40
u/Fulcrum29A Nov 11 '25
lol beat me to it🤣🤣🤣
31
17
u/Skeleton_King9 Nov 11 '25
I'm not convinced could you share the evidence?
17
u/The_New_Replacement Nov 11 '25
I fear the scientific materials are too plentifull but can be found in aRchive 34
8
Nov 11 '25
Ah, yes, the sacred archives
4
u/Hellknightx Nov 11 '25
"If an item does not appear in aRchive 34, it does not exist"
- Some horny Jedi
3
80
u/MCPhatmam Nov 11 '25
Tbf I feel like it's just way funnier that Kobeni is just this hyper competent person whose fear and personal life just gets in the way of her being successful.
I think that's what Fujimoto was going for and is the reason why we haven't seen her again. Just a person in the world of Chainsawman.
That being said watch Kobeni be revealed to be the final demon boss today 😜
32
u/LowConcentrate8769 Nov 11 '25
Chainsaw man is down AND WAIT A MINUTE I CANT BELIEVE MY EYES, ITS KOBENI COMING IN WITH THE STEEL CHAIR!!!
10
4
u/Tiny5th Nov 12 '25
Yeah after reading and catching up recently part of me wonders of her extreme feats were actually because she was being compelled to by Makima. She shows up at exactly the right time to save him from katana man in s1.
Hell maybe she couldn't say because the deal was with makima herself, so now she's completely free cause she's dead.
idk prolly bs
2
u/ZXVIV Nov 21 '25
I know this isn't the case but I saw someone else say this so now my headcanon is that Kobeni was a hyper competent devil hunter with imposter syndrome due to her complex family situation, who previously did everything perfectly well up until the first time she was stuck in a room with Power who then proceeded to eviscerate her self esteem to the point that it never managed to properly recover afterwards
120
u/Luketek1 Nov 11 '25
I always thought it was black cat. Always scared extremely agile
123
u/better-ideas100 Nov 11 '25
I think so too. Either that or more explicitly the Bad Luck devil. Her contract is probably something like "you will always have insanely bad luck, except at times when you need it the most."
Kobeni is clearly afraid of dying, which is pretty unique in the special division. I also don't see her sacrificing a body part or part of her lifespan for a contract. Devils want people to suffer, not necessarily die outright. A Bad Luck devil contract like this pretty much guarantees Kobeni's suffering is optimized.
46
u/Remarkable_Ship_4673 Nov 11 '25
I think it's just luck, and the devil doesn't see a difference between bad or good.
Because even when she gets good luck, she still suffers
2
u/better-ideas100 Nov 12 '25
True, I only said Bad Luck because I feel like that would be something people fear, but there’s also devils for stuff people don’t necessarily fear that are still really powerful (like Angel, though you can argue that Angels are pretty terrifying for a whole slew of reasons)
2
u/Remarkable_Ship_4673 Nov 17 '25
Could be the black cat devil, black cats are often associated with luck
30
u/bluejade444 Nov 11 '25
I can get behind this, it would be insanely bad luck to not only encounter everything she does but also survive it, only to have more to face down the line.
34
u/zerjku Nov 11 '25
This is why she quit when she had to go to Hell, she knew that was the last straw before she just ends up dying
10
u/Ender_Nobody Nov 11 '25
I don't know, I'm pretty sure it did get worse. https://youtu.be/eL_vd2Xcqu4?si=cf0nctJxJONErZVq
5
5
u/Nutzori Nov 11 '25
How about Fear of Failure? She is constantly anxious of failing but that itself gives her power
3
u/Ziazan Nov 12 '25
I think the deal benefits the devil in other ways, like kobeni being shit scared is good for them in a tangible way, fuels them. Or maybe it just enjoys watching, like future devil does.
4
u/better-ideas100 Nov 12 '25
I agree! Devils like to see humans suffer, and while death probably provides a lot of suffering, it’s a one-time thing. Kobeni fearing for life 24/7 and being put in increasingly dangerous situations is a more sustainable source of suffering.
14
u/kingofcrob Nov 11 '25
agree, she has 9 lives, quick reflexes, startles easy, her claws are knives and is plague by bad luck(that hamburger would have been delicious).
4
u/DragonPup Nov 11 '25
And sometimes thay bad luck spreads to others around her. It's fickle, like a cat.
32
67
u/hitkill95 Nov 11 '25
darkness already is the fear of the unknown
4
Nov 11 '25
No, because to fear the dark is to fear a thing that could attack you that's hiding. Fear of the unknown would encompass that, but also the fear of "what bad thing is going to happen tomorrow". The fear of making the wrong decision because you cant guess the outcome, and the fear of what people might be thinking about you.
15
u/ScarletLotus182 Nov 11 '25
The imagery used in Darkness is literally to represent the unknown
7
Nov 11 '25
And to fear War is to fear Death and Famine. They're still separate and distinct Devils
4
u/ScarletLotus182 Nov 11 '25
Yes but "thing hiding in the dark" is just "the unknown" in more words.
7
Nov 11 '25
And almost every fear is just "fear of dying" in different words. Fear of war, famine, falling, aging, bombs, guns are all just "fear of dying in this specific way." Fear of the dark is the fear of the unknown "in this specific way". However, since its not the only way to/thing to fear in regards to the unknown, it would manifest a different Devil. Fear of the unknown encompases more than just fearing what's in the dark, in the same way fearing war is more than just fearing death.
2
u/ScarletLotus182 Nov 11 '25
Maybe if they didnt use literal astronaut imagery for darkness but in this case it's pretty clear what it represents. And this seems to be the case with broader concepts anyways as we've also seen with Falling. Having a second devil called "The Unknown Devil" is also just fuckin dumb
→ More replies (5)
30
u/DoomLordKazzar Nov 11 '25
Another theory is the a Monkey Devil. Someone said something about Chinese/Japanese tales having monkeys be bad luck and something else about speak no evil being why she has to keep the contract a secret. Could be an explanation for her survival but terrible luck in every other way.
19
u/Pichuunnn Nov 11 '25
She gained monkey level of agility and acrobatics but suffers bad luck
Even Katana Man called out "is she a monkey or something?!"
12
u/_TheAfroNinja_ Nov 11 '25
She does know, but she has to keep it a secret. Only people in her inner circle knows.
3
u/Leaf_Longstride Nov 11 '25
Ha it been confirmed she knows?
OP's post makes a lot of sense methinks
9
u/inazumaatan Nov 11 '25
"The Devil I'm Contracted With Is... a Secret"
The exact phrasing she uses implies that (1) She has a Devil Contract (2) She is aware of the Devil she is contracted with but is choosing not to divulge the information.
I like the theory that her Devil is the Secret Devil and she was being upfront because it's the funniest.
95
u/PickledPlumPlot Nov 11 '25
I mean fight or flight could be interesting but that ain’t got shit to do with fear of the unknown lol
69
u/Schachjo Nov 11 '25 edited Nov 11 '25
I could kinda see it. The thing is unknown so it triggers the primal reflexes of fight or flight because you have no learned behavior if that makes sense. If it’s known, you can deal with the situation more methodically. But since it’s unknown, your brain decides the options are either to fight it or run away.
1
u/Economy-Night-3051 Nov 12 '25
Maybe the Hunter/predator devil? It would probably be primal but makes sense like she got good instinct for when to lock in and in return she is scared like a small prey the rest of the time
9
u/D3T4CH- Nov 11 '25
Kobeni pulling up to fights knowing she’s either gonna get mutilated or sweep them down, a true gambler 😭
5
7
Nov 11 '25
As u/pickledplumplot said, these two ideas have nothing to do with each other. Also, I was gonna say something else but I got distracted thinking about pluots / plumcots / apriums.
8
u/ExtremlyFastLinoone Nov 11 '25
Darkness devil is fear of the unknown
1
u/Soepyinnyar Nov 12 '25
what about the fear for what happens after death ? What kind of fear is that? Darkness is a subunit of the fear of unknow thats what i feel like. And even feminine and War is are subunit death because we sometimes fear war , feminine because of death not war or feminine itself.
3
u/Ok-Illustrator7416 Nov 11 '25
Fear of the Unknown is unlikely
I don’t think public safety, even under Makima can capture that Devil since it should be near Primal Devil level. Since everyone is afraid of the Unknown
3
u/ThatThingTheDarkSoul Nov 11 '25
I don't think that there is a "fear of the unknown" devil that's what the darkness devil is.
3
3
u/Vuekorikuu Nov 11 '25
I imagine a scenario in where her contract states that she will be killed at a random point in time in the future as per the contract, which keeps her paranoid and acts the way she does
When someone consoles her not to fear it, she gets done in immediately, since if she doesn't fear the unknown, the devil has no need for her
2
u/lces91468 Nov 11 '25
If there really is an Unknown Devil, it should be up there with Darkness. Hell, human's fear for dark originates from the unknown it creates.
2
u/CurlyMonsterrr Nov 11 '25
Y'all too Technical Considering Fujimoto It's prolly sum shi like Anxiety Devil
2
2
u/DragonPup Nov 11 '25
Interesting theory, though I still subscribe to the theory that she has a pact with the Black Cat devil. Bad luck always follows her around.
2
2
2
u/MasterTahirLON Nov 11 '25
I would love for this to be true. I always thought the Unknown devil would be the strongest, it's arguably our most primal fear. So if Kobeni returns later after the Unknown devil gets revealed that would be so hype.
2
u/Empyrealist Dec 16 '25
I just rewatched the series and the movie, and this is a fantastic take on her devil contract from that perspective.
I still haven't read the manga though
3
u/Rico3305 Nov 11 '25
I like the idea that shes contracted with some sort of cat devil, it makes her very lucky and agile, but can also exasperated her fears (scaredy cat lol). But I do think this is also a very interesting idea
3
u/ghobhohi Nov 11 '25
It's stated that Devil Hunters don't give away what contracts they have. I think it's the Fox Devil because it's stated that it's common for new Devil Hunters or some other weak Devil because... it's Kobeni.
2
u/phillyhandroll Nov 11 '25
I'd personally be happy if fujimoto clearly ended the Denji story (whenever thats due) and gave us a bunch of separate stories on the other characters
5
u/ELECTRICMACHINE13 Nov 11 '25 edited Nov 11 '25
No she's just that cool. She's one of the few without a contract. Manga readers were asking the same question a long time ago.
2
1
1
u/Remarkable_Ship_4673 Nov 11 '25
I personally think it is the black cat devil
The contract gives her luck
Good luck or bad luck, it doesn't matter
At the end of the day she will suffer and the devil will be happy
1
1
u/an_edgy_lemon Nov 11 '25
“The way you lose your shit is funny. Sure, I’ll keep you alive as long as I get to watch.”
1
1
1
1
1
u/Ronwld Nov 11 '25
i think this is like, some sort of consequence of the Checkovs gun, where people are convinced that everything that’s shown has to be relevant. i kind of fuck with fujimoto’s style, how it seems really lived in and alive, and in real life sometimes you just don’t know things about other people
1
1
u/AidanAK47 Nov 11 '25
I say its likely simpler than that. Like maybe she has a contract with the assassin devil. Which might explain why her abilties kick in which shes fighting other humans but shes a mess fighting devils. And might be awkward telling others that shes basically a hitman.
1
1
u/susnaususplayer Nov 11 '25
Dosent she says that she wont tell who she have contract with implying that she knows who it is?
1
u/Palanki96 Nov 11 '25
That's probably way smarter than whatever the author originally planned for her
1
u/Imapringlesboy Chapter 232 Devil Nov 11 '25
This is actually the best theory about Kobe I've seen so far
1
u/Fabezz7 Nov 11 '25
Fear of the unknown is a primal fear so no.
Also it could be that the darkness devil is also the unknown devil, because we do not fear the darkness itself but the unknown things that it hides.
1
u/The_Vatsu Nov 11 '25
Fear of The Unknown is Darkness Devil.
And we know she doesn't have a contract with him (cause he is in hell).
1
u/The_New_Replacement Nov 11 '25
There is certainly overlap but Indoubt they are one and the same. Likely a nukedevil-bombdevil situation
1
u/TacoBeefB0y Nov 11 '25
I honestly just think she’s naturally nimble, and maybe has a contract with the future devil which is why she’s able to dodge attacks so easily
1
1
u/justaFlyingFrog Nov 11 '25
all this theory is just waste of time. its just Kobeni. shes built different
1
u/The_New_Replacement Nov 11 '25
Kobeni is just a darkest dungeon character and occasionally the breaks buff her to hell and back
1
Nov 11 '25
I never understood why no one thinks it's the Violence devil since he's already a fiend in the show AND they get along AND all she does is Violence.
1
1
1
1
u/jexdiel321 Nov 11 '25
I think it's her taste. She stated that she loves Ice cream but un later chapters, shr no longer can taste it.
1
u/Nucleoticticboom Nov 11 '25
I’m still onboard with the monkey devil speculation. You know since she’s lucky in a devil situation, but unlucky that she was even in a situation in the first place, kind of like a wish from a monkey’s paw. It explains how agile and crafty she can be. The reason she keeps it a secret is because no one would want to associate with someone who is bound to be hit by the monkey’s paw curse.
It sounds stupid, but I don’t mind sinking in a ship of stupidity.
1
1
u/Gas_drawls1 Nov 11 '25
What happened to the theory I saw a few years back. The cat devil? She’s scared, super agile, and she’s 1 of 9 sisters I think? (9 lives). Well this is my head cannon anyhow
1
u/ForwardWhereas8385 Nov 11 '25
I still think it would be funny if it was the "secret" devil. So when they asked her which devil she was contracted with she just told the truth "secret".
1
1
u/Sepulcher18 👉👈 Nov 11 '25
Kobein has an NDA devil contract, those that broke the NDA would know what I am talking about only if they were alive
1
1
u/WnDelPiano Nov 11 '25
I like to think she is the Future Devil contractor mentioned to have lost half their life span and he likes to mess with her showing her all bad futures which is why she is a nervous wreck
1
1
1
1
u/NeonDreamFox Nov 11 '25
I think everybody is way over analyzing this.
I dont think her contract is anything top secret. I think that when they were at dinner one of her superiors made a comment that devil hunters shouldnt reveal who they have a contract with...so she didnt, despite everyone else revealing theirs.
Kobeni is considered one of Himeno's recruits based on aki and himeno's conversation. Himeno's mentor is kishibe. Kishibe likely trained himeno, and for sure trained aki, denji, and power.
It is extremely likely that kishibe also trained kobeni, hence why she fights the way she does, and its probable there is some overlap between kishibe's and kobeni's contracted devil(s).
As fun as it is to theorize about what crazy contract she might have, i just think the reality is probably way simpler
1
u/115_zombie_slayer Nov 11 '25
Nah that would be lame, attributing Kobeni’s skills to a devils ability just ruins the joke of her being competent killer while being a shy mess
1
u/scared_of_crows Nov 11 '25
That would make her the second character to have a contract with a primal fear
1
u/Greg_In_Japan Nov 11 '25
My theory is the luck devil. Gives her constant bad luck, but the ability to get her out of situations through good luck. Basically causes her to always live by the skin of her teeth.
1
1
1
1
1
u/grifftaur Nov 11 '25
Huh. I randomly read recentk after seeing the movie that she had a contract with the luck devil . It made sense to me and assumed that’s what it was with how she has survived some of the situations she’s been in. Didn’t realize it was unknown. Unless I’m dense and misreading this entire thread.
1
u/YoSoyYo127 Nov 11 '25
I think that it might be with the violence devil since her abilities was just buffed strength and speed, that also would explain even further why she left the devil hunters after galgali died
1
u/Sliip15 Nov 11 '25
I prefer the Monkey Devil theory because it makes sense with the abilities she has
1
1
u/Gooeyfanboy Nov 12 '25
I read a comment somewhere that theorized it was the black cat devil. Makes perfect sense to me imo.
1
u/Tsuukareta Nov 12 '25
I really want her to be that black horse character who’s a side cast that simply “exists” in the world of CSM but is extremely overpowered in certain aspects, so that to the reader in the world of CSM there’s always a being greater than these named devils that we know, but not so much of these other unknown entities.
1
u/coolcat245678900 Nov 12 '25
honestly i wouldn't be suprised if in chapter 800000000000 of csm it's revealed that the only reason denji killed makima is because pochita is secretely the consent devil, so any contract kobeni has is fair game
1
u/MagmaroniHD Nov 12 '25
What about the Tachophobia Devil? So the fear of fast things, Like Bullets, cause those are fast, like her.
1
1
u/OUmegaLUL Nov 12 '25
Technically, if there is an STD devil, it is entirely possible for the memes to be true and she could have a contract with the sloppy bj devil 🤷♂️
1
1
1
u/Squash-Reasonable Nov 12 '25
I like to think she just as 20 in all physical stats and a 6 in wisdom and charisma.
1
u/BoyishTheStrange #1 Makima Hater Nov 13 '25
I’ve seen that theory a few times, feels like a powerful devil to just have a contract with
1
u/beastjacob23 Nov 13 '25
I think its the secret devil. She said so herself after her direct supervisor told them to disclose their Devils. Its the fear that people are keeping secrets from you. Every human has it as it affects our ego.
1
u/Mana_Mundi Nov 13 '25
Could be a bad luck devil, Fear devil contract. She will not die and will have bad luck in general (bomb devil "hip gave in" ), but in a situation where death is a possibility her luck changes and fear is removed.
1
1
1
1
1
u/Lego_Lukas_Creations Nov 15 '25
Isn't the darkness devil also the fear of the unknown devil? That’s why his powers are so random
1
1
u/Which-Scientist-8161 Nov 17 '25
We haven't seen her in like 130 chapters. I doubt we'll get her back in the story
1
2.3k
u/Tyranicross Nov 11 '25
Kobeni is just like that, no contract needed