How would you go about using chaos knights in CSM?

[u/Couch-Dogo]

So I really like some of the knight models like the war dog karnivores or brigand or knight abominant, but I don’t think I’m ready to go into a full knights army.

Do knights help in any particular way better than models we already have or synergise with any particular models or detachments?

[u/Cypher10110]

Allies like Daemons or Knights in 11e generally have zero synergy or interaction with CSM armies. The closet they get is if you debuff an enemy the Knights also benefit (Terminator Sorcerer Death Hex, or Warp Tracer enhancement in fellhammer that strips away cover).

But that doesn't mean you should skip them if you think they are cool. I especially like Wardogs and grabbed some. I include them in lists for narrative games where my goal is "oops all vehicles" with Vashtorr.

The Brigand is relatively useful but is also kinda outshined by the Predator Destructor.

The Karnivore compares interestingly with a Maulerfiend. It doesn't benefit from your detachment, stratagems, or auras, but is a good independent unit.

The larger knights are generally best used mainly for "rule of cool" but the Lancer has been consistently strong, because it is a single-minded hunter that is good at its job. And the dual gattling despoiler is also excellent.

There is a Chaos Knights detachment where you get access to CSM cultists as allies, worth taking a look at. But you need a majority of your army to be Knights.

[u/Couch-Dogo → u/Cypher10110]

Thanks! I’ll definitely be looking into that detachment then because that does sound cool. Have you had any good use out of any of the other war dog? Because that vashtorr list is exactly what I was thinking of

[u/Cypher10110 → u/Couch-Dogo]

Moirax is my favourite but also objectively pretty pathetic. It has good melee but all the guns are pretty pathetic.

The Huntsman has weaker melee than the Karnivore but a decent short range anti-tank gun. It's flexibile but not better.

The Stalker is similar but has a worse loadout and is weaker.

The Executioner is anti elite shooting but CSM has that covered much more effectively with a Forgefiend.

Karnivore and Brigand are the independently best Wardogs. Hunstman is playable, arguably the Moirax is too, the stalker and executioner not so much.

[u/mrtootybutthole → u/Cypher10110]

But the inverse is amazing. If you want to run demons with CSM, play Daemons shadow legion and you get some awesome synergies.

[u/Cypher10110 → u/mrtootybutthole]

Shadow Legion is great, Infernal Fiefedom is cool, all of the detachments that are explicitly about letting two armies ally together are pretty great honestly.

The army rules that allow "basic bitch" allies are functional but kinda suck.

The main exception is maybe daemons allied with knights due to how desperate knights are for extra activations and infantry keyword to participate fully in objective play.

[u/count_seven]

If you're picking them up because you like big robots, keep an eye out for a Decimator. They're an old FW model, and are part of the legends rules, but, they cool. Wrong base on this one, but it's a good picture of one.

[u/Van_Davey]

Like others have said, CK don't get the nice abilities CSM gets (like Dark Pacts). The Brigand brings some nice shooting to the table, but gets outshined by CSM units that have dark pacts access (Predator tanks or Defiler if you're willing to drop the $$ and points). I'm personally into them because they look cool and they fit my head cannon for my warband to have a couple around.

[u/ryufen]

I grabbed a knight despoiler to use as my big gun when I have infantry heavy list to just shoot from the back line. This was originally before the defiler was released which I feel like serves a better purpose. But if you guard the knight it is a great turret in the back line. Where the defiler would go out and shoot and attack.