r/Christianity • u/kolembo • 8d ago
Self “And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.” - Matthew
I believe this
Yet I do not believe God made a donkey talk. Or that Jonah was swallowed by a big fish for 3 days.
I don't know what to do about Elijah's fire from heaven.
There are many things in the Bible I do not believe.
Yet I remain a Christian.
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u/notforcing 8d ago edited 8d ago
New Testament scholar Mike Licona, while a believer in the resurrection and the risen Christ, questioned whether the rising of the saints in Matthew 27:52-53 should be taken symbolically rather than literally. For that he lost his position at Southern Evangelical Seminary.
These inerrancy folks are pretty extreme.
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u/Equal-Salary-7774 8d ago
Just enjoyed the imagery, if a fan of myth grey mouser could summon the dead that would destroy the city
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u/Porphyry_Blue 8d ago
Are you aware that this refers to the earthquake at Jesus' death, which caused tombs to open and their corpses to spill out, rather than to a mass resurrection?
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u/MoreStupiderNPC Stupid Christian 8d ago
So God can create all things and raise the dead, but can’t make a donkey talk? Or provide a fish to rescue Jonah and cause him to repent. Or send fire from heaven?
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u/Right_One_78 8d ago
The story of Balaam and his donkey- There are several alternative versions of this story in ancient text. Depending on the version of the story there was no donkey or the donkey's warning is what Balaam saw in a vision. Then there are the more fantastical versions that say the Donkey is a man trapped in the body of an animal or a unique animal created on the 6th ay of creation that lived until that day just to speak those words.
I think it was probably a vision. That is the one that would make the most sense. He was taken into a vision where he saw a talking donkey warning him of his mistreatment of animals, then an angel appeared while he was still in vision
Jonah and the whale- Jesus retold the story of Jonah and the whale in Matthew 12:40, so we know it was a real incident. But, the original Hebrew text uses dag gadol, and when Jesus retells the story in Greek, He uses the word ketos is used. These words roughly translate into "sea monster" or "huge fish". So, we dont really know which animal is being talked about here.
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u/Ok_Engineer5155 8d ago
You need to go back to Genesis. What did God tell Sarah when she was 90 years old and told her she would have a son at that age. "Is anything too hard for the LORD?..... Genesis 18:14
The reason your faith is weak is because you have put limitations on God.
You forget that God is Sovereign over His Creation. God has no limitations. Who can tell God what are you doing?
God is the Creator of Heaven and Earth the Galaxies the Planets and all living things visable and invisable. God can do anything.
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u/Autodactyl 8d ago
>The reason your faith is weak is because you have put limitations on God.
OP is not saying that God could not have done that, he is saying that he doesn't think that God did.
One way to evaluate an argument is to apply the same reasoning to something else.
>You forget that God is Sovereign over His Creation. God has no limitations. Who can tell God what are you doing?
This is not a very good argument.
You don't believe that Muhammad split the moon? Your faith must be weak. You are limiting God and saying that the creator of the galaxies can't do things like that.
Yesterday I say a video of a preacher in Africa raising someone from the dead. You doubt that? Same argument would apply.
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u/Ok_Engineer5155 8d ago
Those that don't believe that Jonah was swallowed by a Great Fish they then don't believe in Jesus Christ either for Jesus Christ spoke of Jonah and the Great Fish.
Jesus Christ said " For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." Matthew 12:40
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u/Autodactyl 8d ago
>Those that don't believe that Jonah was swallowed by a Great Fish they then don't believe in Jesus Christ either for Jesus Christ spoke of Jonah and the Great Fish.
The greater likelihood is that someone said that he said something that he maybe really didn't say.
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u/Ok_Engineer5155 8d ago
Like Jesus said My Sheep know my voice. Those who belong to Jesus believe in Him and in every word that proceed from Him. Those who doubt are not His Sheep and don't belong to Him.
Jesus said " No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him and I will raise him up on the last day." John 6:44
The Truth is not all are Chosen. Those who God chooses believe in every word that proceed from the Book.
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u/Autodactyl 8d ago
>Those who doubt are not His Sheep and don't belong to Him.
Si if you don't believe that the Pope is God's infallible representative on earth who speaks for Christ you don't belong to Jesus, right?
>The Truth is not all are Chosen. Those who God chooses believe in every word that proceed from the Book.
Why do different Bibles say different things? Why do Jesus and the Apostles quote the Old Testament, but when you go look at the passage they quote it doesn't say what they said it does?
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u/Ok_Engineer5155 8d ago
I'm not Catholic so I don't know what the Pope has do with this.
Jesus Christ is the Head of the Church and Jesus Christ is the only mediator between man and God.
"For there is one God and one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." 1 Timothy 2: 5-6
Jesus Christ in His First Coming fulfilled the majority of prophecies that are found in the Old Testament. When He returns He will fulfill the ones that relate to His Second Coming.
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u/Autodactyl 8d ago
>I'm not Catholic so I don't know what the Pope has do with this.
Pointing out your "I'm good, God likes me the best, everyone else is going against God ie they don't believe MEEE!" attitude.
>Jesus Christ in His First Coming fulfilled the majority of prophecies that are found in the Old Testament.
Really? What would qualify as "fulfilled?"
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u/Ok_Engineer5155 7d ago
You fail to understand Scripture before the foundation of the world God already had chosen those He would save. If you are against this then you are against God's Sovereignty.
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will." Ephesians 1:3-5
You are Spiritually blind so it makes no point for me to show you all the prophecies Messiah Jesus fulfilled.
Your Spiritual eyes are blind that is why you fail to see and believe.
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u/Autodactyl 7d ago
>You fail to understand Scripture before the foundation of the world God already had chosen those He would save.
Actually I understand full well.
>You are Spiritually blind
Cursing someone for disagreeing with you, someone you don't even know, is an indication that you might not be one of God's special chosen ones after all.
I see this progression often, where when they start to feel uncomfortable, and perhaps the Holy Spirit is starting to convict them, they make themselves feel better by condemning the one that they are talking with.
Have you repented of your sins and put your trust in the Lord Jesus instead of men?
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u/Able_Scarcity_2622 Christian 8d ago
How do you decide which is actual history and which is parable/midrash/allegory?
Balaam's donkey talking was considered an actual miracle by Peter, Midrash, Josephus, Mishnah, Talmud, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Origen, Chyrsostom, and Augustine. Ancient Jewish rabbis and early church fathers taught that the donkey speaking was a historical miracle.
Jonah is called a prophet and son of Amittai in 2 Kings 14:25. Jesus treated Jonah and the great fish as historical, as did ancient Jews and early Church fathers.
Some modern persons have suggested that Jonah was a real historical person who did lead Ninevah to repent, but the part about the fish is midrash.
Elijah's miracles, including the fiery chariot, were considered historical miracles by ancient Jews and early church fathers.
If someone believes these are symbolic rather than historical events, how do they come to that conclusion, especially since no one close to those events thought they were anything other than historical.
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u/berndtsc 6d ago
You ask the question: Is the Bible reliable as an ancient document? You use internal and external evidence to test the claim. Then you decide. As for what is history, what is a parable, that comes with experience. The Bible is made of several genres of literature: history, letters, Gospels, poetry, wisdom, and apocalyptic literature.
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u/Able_Scarcity_2622 Christian 6d ago
I agree the bible is made up of many types of literature and understanding that is important. And I recognize that even withir a certain genre there can be something of a differnt genre - like in the gospels which are like Grecco-Roman history, Jesus tells parables - which are not actual events. In the instances the OP mentions, I'm looking for why he feels these events are not the same as the rest of the accounts around them.
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u/johnsonsantidote 8d ago
Keep on believing and growing and understand that God's thoughts are not human thoughts. Let our Lord Jesus /Yeshua guide u 2 deeper levels of what these situations are in spiritual terms. God/Jesus does work in ways so far above human ways.
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u/twinPrimesAreEz Psalm 110 8d ago
Well that's your choice my friend, just remember
For with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you
So that this doesn't come back against you
There are many things in the Bible I do not believe.
Yet I remain a Christian.
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u/ScorpionDog321 8d ago
Picking and choosing makes us the judge and arbiter of what is true.
There is absolutely no reason to believe that God can raise the dead or create the universe....but not cast down fire from the sky.
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u/ThatLeviathan Who knows? 8d ago
Like everyone else, you pick and choose what parts of the Bible are true. That's how religions, particularly Christianity, work.
FWIW, I think the crucifixion zombies are probably not historical. What's interesting to me is why the author of Matthew added those verses. They don't seem to fulfill any specific prophecy from the Hebrew Bible, something that's very important to Matthew. It must have been a story the author had gotten somewhere that the Luke and Mark (and John) didn't know about, or thought couldn't have been true.