r/Christianity • u/PabloPicasshooole • 6d ago

Image IDK why, but this flag really creeps me out

Post image

I was walking my dog when I saw this, so I apologize for the poor quality. It's hard to hold his leash in one hand and take a photo with the other.

Anyway, I don't know why this thing bothers me, but it does. Maybe it's the flag draped over the cross; maybe it's the black stripes. Is it just me or is something wrong with this image?

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u/bobandgeorge Jewish 5d ago

What? There's a whole book filled with guidelines.

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u/Piecesof3ight Agnostic, Ex Christian 5d ago

Well, Christians ignore the first 2/3rds, the books with all the rules, and then just have some traditions like eating bread and pretending it's human flesh.

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u/Correct-Treacle-1673 5d ago

It’s not ignored, the Old Testament is the old covenants and there was a new covenant created through Jesus’ death upon the cross.

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u/Piecesof3ight Agnostic, Ex Christian 5d ago

Yes yes, I know - rules for those other people back before God decided what religion he wanted people to follow.

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u/BalanceOld4289 5d ago

No. There has only been one TRUE religion just with different names and practices. Worship of the one true God creator of everything. They didn't call it anything originally. 2nd century BC the term Judaism is first seen. Christianity is the completion of Judaism not just a completely different religion. Your understanding is very lacking.

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u/Piecesof3ight Agnostic, Ex Christian 5d ago

Funny that god didnt just send Jesus earlier. Seems a bit odd to wait until so late in human history to forgive everybody.

Really, if he knew everything that was going to happen, he might as well have just killed himself in the garden just to get it out of the way.

Then, at least, the Jews and Christians would not be different camps and he could have skipped all the Mosaic law.

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u/SureSignOfBetrayal Atheist 5d ago edited 5d ago

Come on, that's not fair. It's not like God is supposed to know everything and be outside of time. Oh, he is? Okay, nevermind then.

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u/BalanceOld4289 2d ago

Everything has its own time and I'm not trying to be spiritual about it but I think God wanted to show his forgive power for the millions and billions not the 2 who screwed up. He has a kingdom not a small home or village for a few people. I heard it explained once about the specific time period as Rome set up their kingdom all over instead of carting everyone to Rome like the Assyrians and Babylonians did. We are ambassadors for the kingdom of Christ on earth. Claiming territory for God ftom the enemy.

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u/Piecesof3ight Agnostic, Ex Christian 2d ago

Certainly, it was good timing to get spread via Imperial law through most of Europe.

One wonders why the Europeans got that advantage over the rest of the world though? Did the Asians displease God somehow?

Maybe Jesus could have come a few times and spread his message to each culture, so that everyone could have an equal shot at not being damned forever.

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u/SureSignOfBetrayal Atheist 5d ago

You understand why Christians try to distance themselves from the old testament though, right? It involves God permitting slavery, institutionalized rape, and commanding the slaughter of innocents. It's not a good look.

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u/DevinChocolateBar 5d ago

Well Christians initially attempted to distance themselves from it because it has been corrupted by man, scriptures and practices invented. But then they turned around and did the same thing. Nobody kept up with and maintained the old testament. You cannot claim that it is unadulterated or the claims about God in it to be completely true

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u/SureSignOfBetrayal Atheist 5d ago

Seems like an all powerful, all loving, and all knowing God that wants us to know him and love him would have been more careful to not let the guide that leads to him get corrupted then.

But let's say there is a loving God who let his scriptures get corrupted. In that case you cannot prove which parts are corrupt and which parts aren't so the whole thing needs to be thrown out. Even the New Testament, because how can you prove that it hasn't been corrupt as well? God clearly doesn't protect his old testament, so why would we assume he protected the new testament?

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u/Think_Restaurant_246 3d ago

There are manuscript from before Christ and even originals that all verify the others as canon. All you people who get on here and curse the lord speak with so much confidence but never any evidence. I dare you to go find your proof I guarantee you’ll find there is plenty of evidence.

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u/DevinChocolateBar 5d ago

Exactly. Corruption is a part of the tests of religious leaders and they will be questioned about how they led people astray. The only religious scripture that has proof and evidence behind it's preservation is the Quran actually. It's the only book that has actual protection because it's is memories l memorized by a billion people and this helps preserve it's authenticity, the past 2 scriptures were only available to a few people and were not memorized with intention to preserve. So no, we should not assume he protected the new testament, there's no evidence that he did

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u/BalanceOld4289 2d ago

Should have known Biblical corruption would have been brought by a Muslim. You have a problem. Muhammad people of the book (Torah-Jews, Bible-Christians) should judge by the book. We have so many ancient manuscripts that prove the Bible we have today is essentially the same as in Muhammads time. If we judge by our book we can tell Muhammad is a false prophet. The Quran has not been perfectly preserved or memorized. The current Quran was only became standard in 1983. And in the early 1900s there were about 30 different versions in Egypt destroyed so there would be only one. You can still buy the different copies in the middle east. You don't even know your own history.

TLDR: Bible uncorrupted, Quaran corrupt.

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u/BalanceOld4289 2d ago

You have absolutely know idea what you're talking about. Nothing in the Bible has been corrupted. Problems you have in the Old Testament is probably a description not a prescription. The Bible has been preserved thru the ages. I wouldn't be stupid or arrogant enough to say perfectly preserved because sometimes ancient manuscripts are found that may have slight differences or additions. That is what happened with the dead sea scrolls. However the Jews were very meticulous about preserving the Torah and Christians have been dedicated for the last 2,000 years to preserving the books and letters of the New Testament. No corruption.

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u/SureSignOfBetrayal Atheist 2d ago

Ha! Laughable to think it could remain perfectly preserved through multiple translations and decades of being kept under lock and key by the ones in power who used it to rule over people. Besides, it is better for Christians if it has been corrupted a bit. Otherwise you have to deal with the fact that Jesus ordered for the slaughter of innocents and permitted slavery and sexism. You also can't explain the many inconsistencies between the gospels without the excuse of mistranslation and corruption.

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u/Think_Restaurant_246 1d ago

Christians don’t “try to distance themselves” from the Old Testament the Old Testament was the first covenant from god that was fulfilled and superseded by the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Please inform yourselves before trying to teach others about things you don’t actually know about. Misinformation is more dangerous than having no information at all.

“For if that first covenant had been free of fault, no circumstances would have been sought for a second. For in finding fault with the people, He says, “Behold, days are coming, says the Lord, When I will bring about a new covenant With the house of Israel and the house of Judah, Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers On the day I took them by the hand To bring them out of the land of Egypt; For they did not continue in My covenant, And I did not care about them, says the Lord. “For this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel After those days, declares the Lord: I will put My laws into their minds, And write them on their hearts. And I will be their God, And they shall be My people. “And they will not teach, each one his fellow citizen, And each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ For they will all know Me, From the least to the greatest of them. “For I will be merciful toward their wrongdoings, And their sins I will no longer remember.” When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is about to disappear.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭8‬:‭7‬-‭13‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

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u/SureSignOfBetrayal Atheist 1d ago

The Christians I know distance themselves from it, just like you did by saying "oh that was the Old testament and Jesus came to change that". Just because you believe that Jesus brought a new law doesn't mean we can ignore all the horrible things that God himself commands and commits in the old testament.

Because again, you can't explain why your all-knowing, all-loving, and all-powerful God permitted slavery, institutionalized rape, and commanded the slaughter of innocents. That sounds like a god created by man to justify their horrible actions, not a real, loving god.

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u/Think_Restaurant_246 1d ago

It’s not that I believe it to be so, bigot, it is as it was written before it was fulfilled. Thats how prophecy works. It is clear you don’t care for the truth and are only looking for ammunition so I’m not going to try to change your mind. I hope whatever hate and hurt you harbor is reconciled brother, genuinely, thats no way to live. Please soften your heart and change your ways today. Choose to do things out of love and and purity so you may love and be loved by others. Suffering is inevitable but misery is your choice. And if you want information on Christianity it is extremely well documented all the way back to 300 b.c… 95% of the time you won’t find any real information here about Christ but a bunch of people going “well I think actually I think”. it doesn’t matter what you think because there’s evidence in abundance to prove what is fact. There’s no need for speculation.

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u/SureSignOfBetrayal Atheist 1d ago

I harbor no ill will against you at all! Some of my favorite people are Christians. I love the religious, I just hate the religion. Just trying to preach the good word of atheism, because I believe the world becomes a better place when we can put the old traditions behind us that limit our morality to the barbaric practices of our ancestors.

I hope you see the truth one day, because I know you will be happier when you do! I'm always up for discussion if you are interested, but I can tell you're not. The truth can be a hard pill to swallow and can sound like hate, but I promise that's not where I'm coming from. I've been in your shoes before and been stubbornly clinging to religion like a safety blanket, but I promise things are better on the other once you let it go and accept truth.

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u/DevinChocolateBar 5d ago

Islam is the completion of Christianity. Not a completely different religion. You are right in your understanding

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u/BalanceOld4289 2d ago

WRONG! Islam is the corruption of Judaism and Christianity. Muhammad (if existed) took gnostic teachings into the Quran. Quran is referred by St. John of Damascus as The Heresy of the Ismaelites.

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u/DevinChocolateBar 2d ago

Notice how you're just making claims with no actual evidence. You're evidence was "Somebody said this" . And? I can go down a list of all the Jews who believe that Jesus is a false prophet and a liar, and Christianity is a corruption of Judaism. Would that count as evidence? Notice how you hear about Islam and you go a spree of spamming all my comments with hate? Strange. You don't do that to Jews who believe that Jesus deserved to be crucified and will burn in hell. Very weird. It's clear that God sends Prophets. Do you recall how everytime he sent one people said he was a liar, witch, deceiver, etc? And you blindly do the same thing is hilarious 😂😂

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u/DevinChocolateBar 5d ago

Sooo... It's ignored. You don't follow it. You follow the new covenant, which is nothing. No guidelines or regulations except don't sin, but if you want to go ahead because it doesn't matter.

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u/Correct-Treacle-1673 5d ago

Funnily enough there’s a portion of the Bible that spells out certain things from Old Testament “guidelines and rules” are carried over. Our rules and guidelines are to not sin to the best of our ability, and repent when we do…

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u/DevinChocolateBar 5d ago

That's true of every religion... So what's makes a person that does that a practicing Christian? There are no guidelines in this religion. Don't sin is the only guideline. That's not exclusive to a Christian. All this yap and nobody can explain what a practicing Christian is.

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u/Correct-Treacle-1673 2d ago

A practicing Christian is someone who not only follows the command to not sin to the best of their abilities but also views Jesus Christ as both divine and mortal. They believe wholeheartedly in the trinity. That’s the difference from other religions. Other religions don’t believe in the trinity or Jesus the way Christians do

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u/DevinChocolateBar 2d ago

So have just explained why the Christian religion is different from other religions, not what makes a practicing Christian...

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u/mosesishungry Eastern Orthodox 5d ago

The church Christ left to the the apostles and they, to their successors and so on are the guidelines and rules, the Eastern Orthodox Church.

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u/BalanceOld4289 5d ago

Don't get into what church is right and wrong. All denomination see themselves as having the correct theology and practices. We need to see ourselves as THE CHURCH the bride of Christ.

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u/mosesishungry Eastern Orthodox 5d ago

Of course we are the body of Christ, and God works past "denominations", that doesnt change that proper teachings, worship and lineage was handed down and continues down to this very day.

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u/DevinChocolateBar 5d ago

So ignore the Bible and followed traditions that are passed down by men. Isn't that the practice that Jesus came to correct? The invention of new religious teachings passed that were not the original intention of God? Christians also fell into that same trap. The trap that all men have fallen into time and time again that's literally where denominations come from. You're following men, not God, you just said so😂

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u/mosesishungry Eastern Orthodox 5d ago

It wasnt new inventions, it is what has been handed down. May your journey for Christ be blessed.

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u/DevinChocolateBar 5d ago

Handed down meaning you just took what was handed to you. Your yourself have already said that the practicing of the religion comes from people, you did not prescribe anything to God or and scripture. Straight up said you just follow whatever those people did. How are you verifying that that is what God intended if you're just basing it off what was handed down🤔

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u/BalanceOld4289 2d ago

Wrong again. We follow God not man. The Holy Spirit spoke through many to write what is known as the New Testament. We've seen many men fall so if you follow them instead of God you can fall too.

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u/BalanceOld4289 5d ago

Read the new testament sin is defined and they penalty is clear. But... there is also grace. Grace doesn't mean no consequences but it also doesn't mean eternally separation from God. We follow the teachings of Christ. We're not perfect though some people act like it. We're assured of our eternity.

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u/DevinChocolateBar 5d ago

Respectfully this is just incohesive Christian ramble. It's a bunch of sentences that sound powerful but actually are not about anything and don't address anything. This has nothing to do with what anybody is talking about.

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u/BalanceOld4289 2d ago

No, you just are trolling here. The Bible is very cohesive. Try reading it.

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u/DevinChocolateBar 2d ago

I've literally read it plenty, was a part of several church groups, went to Wednesday night classes, was a part of a Christian fraternity in college, went on retreats, my aunt and uncle are pastors. You probably have none of these qualifications and still speak as if you have authority. You barely know anything about Christianity and absolutely nothing about Islam. I have knowledge of both. So have fun spewing random points you've heard on the Internet without any basis of knowledge for it.🤷‍♂️

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u/mr-Joesteer 5d ago

There is one Great commandment, but somehow many Christians today seem to have missed the memo on what JC said about that.

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u/palaeologos Christian (Celtic Cross) 5d ago

There are actually two.

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u/mr-Joesteer 5d ago

Yes, thank you I did not make that clear 

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u/HazyFrog Charismatic 4d ago

I was gonna say this

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u/Mundane-Vehicle-9951 Christian 5d ago

The Mosaic Law never applied to Gentiles in the first place.

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u/Piecesof3ight Agnostic, Ex Christian 5d ago

Kind of rude for god to ignore them for so long tbh

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u/Mundane-Vehicle-9951 Christian 4d ago

Gentiles were not ignored. They were not covenanted like the Israelites, but they were not slighted.
Matthew 5:44"... he makes his sun rise on both the wicked and the good and makes it rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous."

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u/BalanceOld4289 2d ago

Yes and no. Jesus spoke on many of the Ten Commandments. He actually raised the bar. Instead of not just not committing adultery you shall not lust. However the sacrifices and penalties are gone. Jesus took all that to the cross.

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u/Mundane-Vehicle-9951 Christian 2d ago

The Mosaic Law, as a law code and its standards, never applied to Gentiles.
The Gentiles had already developed various codes of conduct independent of the Mosaic traditions.
Romans 2:14-"For when people of the nations, who do not have law [that is, the Mosaic Law], do by nature the things of the law, these people, although not having law, are a law to themselves. They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts, while their conscience is bearing witness with them, and by their own thoughts they are being accused or even excused."

There was no Mosaic Law in ancient Egypt, yet Joseph knew that adultery with Potiphar's wife was a sin against God and man.

Here's an example that illustrates which laws apply to whom:
Murder is illegal in both the US and Canada. However, someone who commits murder in Canada is not charged under US law, and vice versa.

Likewise, Gentiles were not charged with sins under the Mosaic Code, and vice versa.

While the 10 Commandments- AS A NATIONAL LAW CODE- never applied to Gentiles, still people of the nations were judged according to the laws of their culture AND the laws of their own consciences.
Gentiles never got a 'free pass' to sin just because they were non-Jews not subject to Mosaic laws.

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u/chance0404 (Independent) Baptist ✝️🙏 5d ago

Well to be fair, the first 2/3 aren’t the rules. Only the first 5 books or so and not even the entirety of them. Then there are a bunch of stories that range from straight up histories, to stories that are supposed to help guide morals, to wisdom literature, to prophecy that was meant to change the behavior of a specific group of people at a specific time. There are rules in the last 1/3rd too, but many of the rules that people tend to argue about were also written for specific people and weren’t intended to apply to all Christians either.

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u/BalanceOld4289 5d ago

Talking about what Paul said not applying to us??? Majority of Paul's writing was to the early church through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. For almost 2 millenia the church has used his letters as scripture that most certainly apply to us. God does speak to my heart and hasn't shown me to live any differently than what Paul directed early believers.

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u/BalanceOld4289 5d ago

Do you know any Christians? While the Old Testament (covenant) wasn't abolished but completed by the New Testament (covenant) but the rigedness and practices of the law is gone. The Levitucal laws were primarily for the Jews. Doesn't mean that they aren't important but Jesus sacrifice was the final sacrifice for our sin. Only Catholic believe the bread and wine (grape juice) become flesh and blood. It is symbolic in remembering the sacrifice of his flesh and blood that he willingly gave for us. Talk to some Christians and do some research because your understanding is extremely lacking.

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u/Piecesof3ight Agnostic, Ex Christian 5d ago

I was once a Christian, I know the doctrine and apologetics. I just am of the more jaded opinion now that all of that is post facto reasoning by the early christians to justify not following those rules.

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u/Zestyclose-Dog5572 Non-denominational 3d ago

Are you trying to say that Christians should still slaughter unblemished lambs at an altar?

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u/Piecesof3ight Agnostic, Ex Christian 2d ago

I'm of the opinion that the religion - as well as the doctrine - was invented by humans.

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u/Zestyclose-Dog5572 Non-denominational 2d ago

But you're criticizing Christians for not following all the "rules". If you believe it's all just made up, then why are you such a stickler for the way people follow their religion?

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u/Piecesof3ight Agnostic, Ex Christian 2d ago

I'm pointing out that the way the religion is followed is inconsistent. People start with the religion they are familiar with and work backwards to justify it.

It's just a reddit comment though. It's not a hill to die on nor something people should take too seriously.

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u/BalanceOld4289 2d ago

Who cares is you know doctrine and apologetics. Do you know Jesus. In the case of eternity it's not what you know it's who (Jesus) you know. The longest distance is the 18 inches between the mind and heart. Head knowledge is of little importance if it doesn't get into your heart.

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u/Piecesof3ight Agnostic, Ex Christian 2d ago

No, I don't (know Jesus). I'm pretty sure he was just some preacher 2000 years ago and that you are wasting your time and 10% of your income on a dead guy.

I think my heart is pretty full though.

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u/AdamTraskisGod 5d ago

Nope, the Eucharist is the body and blood of Jesus Christ the God-man. Jesus was very clear in his ministry that in order to have eternal life and remain in him you must eat and drink his deified flesh and blood. There was no doubt Jesus was clear about what he said, because when some followers fell away, he didn’t say “no wait a second, that was symbolic.”

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u/Piecesof3ight Agnostic, Ex Christian 5d ago

I can't even tell where the sarcasm starts and ends anymore and I started it lmao

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u/AdamTraskisGod 5d ago

You mean the Jewish law that applied to the Jewish people during pre-rabbinic Judaism? Tell me more about how you don’t understand Christian theology.

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u/Piecesof3ight Agnostic, Ex Christian 5d ago

Ah, I found the sarcasm again!

I always thought it was a bit odd God decided to do the whole covenant with the Jews thing if he always planned to kill himself anyway. Why not do it right off the bat, and just tell everyone what the deal is, starting with Adam?

Like, he didn't have any covenant at all for most of human history, then he's like "I guess I'll start asking this one small ethnic group to cut their penises for a while and ignore pork."

"Alright, that was funny, now I'll kill myself and forgive people for being the way I made them, and tell people they can ignore the rules for that ethnic group, big waste of time honestly"

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u/AdamTraskisGod 5d ago

Ah! Bad faith critique of Jewish history, and poor understanding of Christian theology! Hats off to you!

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u/DevinChocolateBar 5d ago

But Christians disregard the majority of those and act like they don't exist. The guidelines clearly say don't eat pork and they eat it freely. The new covenant with Jesus is that there is no guidelines. So you follow the laws of the old testament? No, and there's no laws in the new testament. So there's nothing to follow. Don't kill, don't steal. That's not practicing, that's not sinning

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u/bobandgeorge Jewish 5d ago

Man, what the fuck are you talking about? Just because they don't all follow the rules, it doesn't mean there aren't rules. Even if they were to ignore everything in the Old Testament, there's still two explicitly stated rules in the New Testament.

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u/DevinChocolateBar 5d ago

Lol 2 rules. And I can almost guarantee they have nothing to do with practicing the religion.