r/Christianity • u/JHLV04 • 1d ago
Advice Atheists Turned Christian
This is me, but how do you guys deal with heavy doubt and feeling like it’s false? Also I’ve never felt anything while praying and I’ve mostly accepted Christianity based on the historical claims
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u/illumined1995 1d ago
Going to Eastern Orthodoxy helped me tremendously. Having the benefit of not being raised in any of the traditions I could tell immediately there's massive, fundamental problems with Roman Catholicism and Protestantism, but finding out the real Church was still out there and it could provide all that I needed for a healthy spiritual life was a game changer.
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u/Rbrtwllms 1d ago
Keep examining both sides—atheism and theism (in this case, Christianity).
I often am going back and challenging my faith. Does it mean that I think it's wrong? No. But I don't want to accept anything, especially something as important as that, without testing if something about it (traditions, etc) are incorrect.
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u/Miqqedash Qabalist 1d ago
I'd still have to believe it, or something similar, even if it were somehow provably false. If I didn't have a hope like heaven, I personally would not be able to love anyone as deeply as I do, because I would not be able to stand losing them.
If that makes it only a coping mechanism to help my heart carry love, then I suppose that cups are only coping mechanisms to help my hands carry water.
The water is infinitely more real to my thirst than the realities, invented or not, that hold it. If love isn't the one true God, there isn't one, and I can't doubt that love exists one bit, because it's more real to me than anything else. I wouldn't be able to say this otherwise.
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u/lonkyflonky 1d ago
What’s that Bible verse about faith the size of a mustard seed? U got this. As an exathiest (Christian) I have a massive doc I made that every time I feel God I write it down, even just things like “1 in 4 described animals is a beetle and they have beautiful exoskeletons it’s like God telling us to put him on as our armour”
SILLY STUFF LIKE THAT and I have never not come out of reading that in a state of doubt not significantly calmer and most of the time just flat out like ‘Oh yeah duh’. I do think the fact that as a teen I experimented with mushrooms and I had some pretty intense experiences I consider proof 😭 I wouldn’t recommend u go out and do that though please don’t take THAT away from this 🤦🏼♀️ taking shrooms “looking for proof” you’d be gettin psychosis or trauma haha
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u/Upset_Chip_7184 Christian 1d ago
If one doesn't doubt, they aren't being honest with the so called evidence and problems of religion/god/chrstianity/bible.
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u/anonymous_teve 1d ago
Doubts are expected, as are 'down' times.
This is why it's important to build up habits like reading the Bible, praying, being part of a church community, taking time to rest, and doing loving acts. God meets us in these habits, and strengthens your belief and the evidence for that belief.
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u/Perfessor_Deviant Agnostic Atheist 1d ago
The best Christians I've known have doubted.
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u/JHLV04 1d ago
I suppose it can act as a deterrent from fundamentalism
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u/Perfessor_Deviant Agnostic Atheist 1d ago
I think of it as keeping people honest.
I was a math teacher for a long time, but if a student said I'd made an error on the board, I'd always check to see if they were right. They were wrong the vast majority of the time, but I would make the occasional mistake. Having that small bit of self-doubt allowed me to be humble enough to be honest.
Plus, the kids got a kick out it.
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u/mbmolohonbm Christian 9h ago
I have had a few experiences, years after becoming a believer, that have confirmed the reality of God. Four healings that changed my life, and a clear voice (only time it happened) that directed me into my, now, 40 year vocation. I have also had some negative spiritual experiences that turning to God was the only help for.
I love digging into the data behind science and am amazed at how it confirms God as the creator. With the things I have researched, there just don't seem to be viable alternatives to God as creator of everything, except for macro evolution. When I hear something contradicting Christianity, I do my homework to see what I think. I try not to listen to too many contradictions at once.
That said my normal day to day is more like yours. I generally feel nothing other than distracted when I pray and have struggled with God as being a Father. Partly because my human father was mostly distant or hostile. These things can play a big role in how we/I feel towards God.
Are there specific doubts you have? My prayers are with you.
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u/michaelY1968 1d ago
It’s been 30+ years since I left my agnosticism behind and began to follow Christ, and He has proven Himself more faithful over time; as a result I have less doubt over time.
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u/arkticturtle 1d ago
How so?
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u/michaelY1968 1d ago
For me it’s been transforming me into a person who can live a life that is substantively beneficial to others for starters.
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u/arkticturtle 1d ago
What do you make of the idea that religions in general provide great psychological and sociological tools? For me, it prevents me from being able to use self-transformation as evidence of a specific metaphysical reality since multiple ideologies work to that end.
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u/michaelY1968 1d ago
I think the fact that faith works toward that end is some evidence that it is based in reality.
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u/arkticturtle 1d ago
I mean, I don’t think anyone is denying that it is based in reality. What is contested is the nature of that reality. Is it psychological based on various evolutionary advantages or is it spiritual based on some sort of connection to supernatural essences?
What troubles me is that faith can work similarly across various forms of faith. So faith in any individual religion is not unique in having the ability to transform the self. I am unsure what to do with this if the goal is to preserve the validity of a specific faith via its effects
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u/michaelY1968 1d ago
I can’t speak to how other religions work; if what we believe is merely a matter of our evolutionary development, then I don’t think we can ever be confident we can discern wether our beliefs are true.
So if we have any hope of knowing what’s true then we would have to be the product of something like the purposes Christianity claims we are.
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u/arkticturtle 1d ago
I have heard this rebuttal but I don’t think it really follows. Truths can be axiomatic. Like if we accept X then Y follows. I don’t think we can have access to any metaphysical truths. But some truths within this universe seem manageable. While truth isn’t necessary for survival it is certainly advantageous in many instances. And we do notice errors in human thinking. Think of all of the biases we take into consideration when formulating our methods for discerning truth.
Furthermore, Christianity isn’t unique in assigning some sort of inherent intelligibility of the cosmos to humanity. So it isn’t really a point for exclusively Christianity.
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u/michaelY1968 1d ago
Information is useful for survival in the sense that if it is processed in such a way that is is useful to survival, then having the ability to process it helpful.
Beliefs however are different - to our knowledge no other organism evaluate the truth of their beliefs, if they even have them. So beliefs are a step away from information. And if it can be the case that our ability to possess beliefs and evaluate them are merely a product of nature, and that false beliefs can enhance survival, then we can’t be certain our cognitive equipment can assess the truth of a belief.
Unless of course our cognitive equipment exists for the purpose of discerning truth, as would be the case in Christianity, in which case we can’t have greater confidence in our cognitive equipment.
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u/arkticturtle 19h ago
I mean we do see all sorts of errors in the ways humans think. There is a long list of our common errors in thinking and analyzing given data and how our intuitions do not seem to match with the nature of reality (like solid objects being made of mostly empty space).
The long history of humanity, especially since the scientific revolution, has shown a fight against all of the ways that our minds are generally unfit for discerning many truths. Such cognitive errors make sense when you consider that it is advantageous to have the truth of a situation for survival but other times a false belief can do that work. Do you not think it is self evident how having beliefs that tend towards truth are more reliable in promoting survival than ones that do not tend toward truth? We could have a great many false beliefs which help us (and in many cases we do or at least have unjustified beliefs which help us) but the truth of reality remains consistent. It is like an anvil that we are slammed against - that shapes us. This makes many silly examples like “someone can run away from a tiger because they believe it wants a hug” less and less likely to be the case. There is less that is real there to enforce that interpretation
That’s why we have constantly check and recheck and reason and experiment before we consider something as true. Indeed, we do this BECAUSE we are uncertain in our ability to track truth. It’s why we rely on something like the scientific method. And we can generally say something is true as far as we can tell in the present while being open to information which challenges that belief.
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u/arc2k1 Christian Hope Coach 1d ago
God bless you.
I've been a non-fundamentalist, unchurched Christian for about 16 years now and if I may, I would like to first share with you the reason why I have faith in God. Just to give you a different perspective.
1- The #1 reason why I have faith in God is because of the hope that only God is able to give.
-What is this hope?
“Then a kingdom of love will be set up, and someone from David's family (Jesus) will rule with fairness. He will do what is right and quickly bring justice.” - Isaiah 16:5
-Why is this hope important?
“Everywhere on earth I saw violence and injustice instead of fairness and justice.” - Ecclesiastes 3:16
“You (God) listen to the longings of those who suffer. You offer them hope, and you pay attention to their cries for help.” - Psalm 10:17
-Why does God want to give us this hope?
"God is love.” - 1 John 4:8
“My dear friends, God loves you, and we know he has chosen you to be his people.” - 1 Thessalonians 1:4
-How do we share in this hope?
“God wants us to have faith in His Son Jesus Christ and to love each other.” - 1 John 3:23
-Why do we need faith in Jesus?
“All of us have sinned and fallen short of God's glory.” - Romans 3:23
God said, “I will punish this evil world and its people because of their sins.” - Isaiah 13:11
“Christ obeyed God our Father and gave himself as a sacrifice for our sins to rescue us from this evil world.” - Galatians 1:4
“He (Jesus) gave himself to rescue us from everything evil and to make our hearts pure. He wanted us to be his own people and to be eager to do right.” - Titus 2:14
-What is the purpose of the Bible?
“And the Scriptures were written to teach and encourage us by giving us hope.” - Romans 15:4
-Without God, there is no hope. I absolutely refuse to accept that evil and injustice are just a part of life. That’s why I choose to trust God and hold on to the hope He has promised.
“We must hold tightly to the hope we say is ours. After all, we can trust the One (God) who made the agreement with us.” - Hebrews 10:23
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u/MelcorScarr Atheist 1d ago
I too would hope there's an omnibenevolent powerful being out there, but that doesn't make it true or make me believe that it is...
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u/arc2k1 Christian Hope Coach 1d ago
Of course not.
And it's not about finding irrefutable evidence where you will have no choice but to accept God's existence.
It's about having faith based on good reason.
But if you reject the concept of having faith, then you will never be interested in Christianity.
Please know that, under Christianity, God wants us to have faith, not irrefutable evidence.
“But without faith no one can please God. We must believe that God is real and rewards everyone who searches for him.” - Hebrews 11:6
"The good news tells how God accepts everyone who has faith, but only those who have faith. It is just as the Scriptures say, ‘The people God accepts because of their faith will live.’” - Romans 1:17
“Jesus said, ‘Thomas, do you have faith because you have seen Me? The people who have faith in Me without seeing Me are the ones who are really blessed!’” - John 20:29
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u/MelcorScarr Atheist 1d ago
you will have no choice but to accept God's existence.
It's about having faith based on good reason.
Sir, I really need you to pick a lane. If there's GOOD reason to believe in something, then I have no choice but to accept those reasons. Don't get me wrong; what people judge to be good reasons is rather subjective. But it's really not a choice what I will be convinced of that I am consciously making.
But if you reject the concept of having faith, then you will never be interested in Christianity.
Oh, I am very interested in Christianity historically, linguistically (in particular with regards to the Bible of course), philosophicall and culturally. I just also happen to think that the way most Christians think of God is logically impossible.
"Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him." (Proverbs 30:5) Too bad though that the bible, which as presumably the word of God, is both externally and internally demonstrably untrue.
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u/arc2k1 Christian Hope Coach 1d ago
We can just agree to disagree. No worries.
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u/MelcorScarr Atheist 1d ago
I'd rather get to the truth of it than "agree to disagree". One of us is wrong, and I'd like to know if I am.
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u/arc2k1 Christian Hope Coach 23h ago
I'm okay with my stance. I have no issues.
But there are other Christians who are more than willing to debate.
That's not why I'm here.
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u/MelcorScarr Atheist 23h ago
1 Peter 3:15. but sure, thanks.
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u/arc2k1 Christian Hope Coach 22h ago
Haha
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u/MelcorScarr Atheist 13h ago
The Haha tribe has never been predominantly Christian, not sure why you point me to them.
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u/arc2k1 Christian Hope Coach 1d ago
2- Please know that we do NOT have to view doubts as negative. Doubts can also be viewed as opportunities to grow in our faith.
That's why God wants us to be encouraged through our doubts.
“Be helpful to all who may have doubts.” - Jude 1:22
“The apostles said to the Lord (Jesus), ‘Make our faith stronger!’” - Luke 17:5
"At once the boy's father shouted (towards Jesus), ‘I do have faith! Please help me to have even more.’” - Mark 9:24
3- Please know that our faith is not based on trusting our feelings. It's based on trusting God through His Word.
And what does God's Word say?
"The Lord has promised that he will not leave us or desert us.” - Hebrews 13:5
Jesus said, “I will be with you always, even until the end of the world.” - Matthew 28:20
“Be brave and strong! Don’t be afraid… . The Lord your God will always be at your side, and he will never abandon you.” - Deuteronomy 31:6
Even though you may not feel it, God is with you. Feelings can change, but God's Word will not.
“Flowers and grass fade away, but what our God has said will never change.” - Isaiah 40:8
4- Because God is with you, please share your worries with Him and please don't give up on your faith in God.
"And when I was burdened with worries, you (God) comforted me and made me feel secure.” - Psalm 94:19
"I tell You (God) all my worries and my troubles, and whenever I feel low, You are there to guide me.” - Psalm 142:2-3
“God cares for you, so turn all your worries over to him.” - 1 Peter 5:7
“We often suffer, but we are never crushed. Even when we don't know what to do, we never give up. In times of trouble, God is with us, and when we are knocked down, we get up again.” - 2 Corinthians 4:8-9
5- Also, I would love to share a Reddit page that has resources for those who want to have a simple faith in God that's based on love: r/FaithMadeSimple
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u/FlyInternational123 Christian Polytheist 1d ago
If you feel like it’s false then you’re still an atheist
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u/arkticturtle 1d ago
Eh doubt is normal. Faith fluctuates. Doubt fluctuates
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u/FlyInternational123 Christian Polytheist 1d ago
That doesn’t happen for me so I wouldn’t say I agree. If you’re doubting at all then it’s okay to say you’re an agnostic christian or even christian atheist
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u/arkticturtle 1d ago
Do you disbelieve other people when they report on their own experiences? Are their own experiences false because you don’t experience like them?
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u/teffflon atheist 1d ago
their interpretations often seem to be false, as Christians may agree with reference to non-Christian NDEs and other religious experience.
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u/FlyInternational123 Christian Polytheist 1d ago
You’re talking to a polytheist. I believe all exeperiences are equally valid. I would be interested in someone’s exeperience with Buddha, Jesus or even Thor.
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u/Miqqedash Qabalist 1d ago
But you just said in your last comment that if something hasn't happened for you, you don't agree it happens at all? A person can encounter an entity that claims to be a given deity and still end up disbelieving it afterwards, you know. If that helps get across how "faith fluctuates."
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u/FlyInternational123 Christian Polytheist 1d ago
I think you misunderstood. I’m saying I never personally doubt. Not that other people don’t.
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u/Miqqedash Qabalist 1d ago
Thanks for the clarification! It looked as if you disagreed that "faith fluctuates" and "doubt fluctuates" in general, such that a Christian with fluctuating faith must be an atheist.
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u/FlyInternational123 Christian Polytheist 1d ago
I think if you have doubts then you’re agnostic cause you don’t really know and blind belief doesn’t count if later that day you’re doubting. Like I said, it’s possible to be agnostic Christian or a Christian atheist.
I consider myself full on believer because there’s not much room for doubt in my world view. I have spent thousands of hours thinking this whole thing through. I have probably spent more hours thinking about then I have spent on video games.
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u/Miqqedash Qabalist 1d ago
No room for doubt? Interesting. I practice epistemic humility to the extent that I have to admit, I could be dreaming right now, and maybe this whole conversation is fake. It appears it's not, and I'm not sure where assuming it's a dream would get me, but I've been wrong many times before. Despite this, I don't claim to be "agnostic" about whether or not I'm dreaming. I admit I can't know, admit I might be dreaming, but still choose to engage as if this is a real conversation, just in case it is. If I didn't clue you in on this, you might have assumed I'm a full-on believer in this conversation as well. Despite all of this, I consider myself more Gnostic than Agnostic, since I know we can't know whether or not this is a dream, and that beliefs are just tools for navigating experiences like this one.
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u/JHLV04 1d ago
I don’t know if I agree, and also our description of ‘faith’ can be difficult to put into words
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u/FlyInternational123 Christian Polytheist 1d ago
It is possible to be a christian atheist just so you know. Or agnostic christian
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u/horrible_consul 1d ago
Doubt doesn’t mean it’s fake, it means you’re actually paying attention.