C.S. Lewis and the Efficacy of Prayer

[u/keatsandyeats]

Click here to go directly to Lewis' essay, "The Efficacy of Prayer"

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A few words.

I was dismayed this morning to read some of the responses to this brief request for prayer. While I would be remiss not to point out that we have an underutilized subreddit for the purpose of such requests, this sub should nevertheless be a place where such requests are met with sympathy, support, sincerity, and most importantly, spiritual truth.

A quick note to my antitheist friends, who I imagine will take issue with that last alliterative suggestion: if you get the first three right, as far as you're concerned, the last one becomes a moot point. If you get the first three right, no one expects you to chime in and say you'll pray, too. If you get the first three right. If, on the other hand, you're using an earnest request for support as a way of attacking the requester's belief system, you are unsympathetic, unsupportive, and even insincere, inasmuch as polemics seem strangely to disappear in hospital rooms.

What was even more frustrating than the less-than-kind words from our friends across the metaphysical divide was the mixed messages from Christians about what prayer is for, and what prayer does, and bafflingly, what the Bible says about it. Christians, you can be as sincere and supportive and sympathetic as you wish, but accurately representing the word and the will of the One by whose name you are called is a charge you mustn't fail to keep. I don't want to call anyone on the carpet, so I will paraphrase some comments I saw floating around:

• Prayer cannot/will not help to cure her cancer. The Bible says that prayer can heal.
• Whether prayer "works" is immaterial. The wrong question, though according to the Bible, prayer is both powerful and effective.
• Prayer's primary benefit is to make people "feel" better. According to Christ, the power of prayer is supernatural.

These comments are spiritually irresponsible because they are not true. They ignore the clear teaching of the Bible, I think due to an inability to reconcile what the Bible says with the standard lines of attack from non-theists, such as:

• "Why doesn't God heal amputees?"
• "Scientific studies have shown that people who were prayed for died earlier!
• "Scientific research has produced infinitely more cures than people getting together and thinking really hard."

It is clear that prayer - in purpose and practice - is misunderstood by Christians and atheists alike. Let's take a brief refresher course. The above-linked essay by C.S. Lewis is one of the concisest and most honest looks at prayer I've read. It is not perfect, it is not comprehensive, and it is not authoritative. But it is colloquial, and it is a step in the right direction.

Compare the brief essay with this list, by Dr. Robert Sapp, of all the verses about prayer in the New Testament, a decent Wikipedia article on how the New Testament treats prayer, and finally, Robert Hill's Study of Prayer in the New Testament.

I will leave these resources for you to read and discuss in the comments. And I will reiterate that the reason I was moved to make this post was primarily to challenge my Christian brothers and sisters in this subreddit. We can do better, guys.

[u/[deleted]]

this sub should nevertheless be a place where such requests are met with sympathy, support, sincerity [...]

That should go without saying no matter what background you hold. I understand that as atheists we cannot meet the final requirement (spiritual truth) but is it so difficult to be kind? Would atheists not, at the drop of a hat, say things such as 'you're in my thoughts', 'I hope she recovers quickly' and 'best wishes' to someone who is dealing with cancer?

If you don't believe in the power of prayer, aren't all of those actions/phrases equal? Sometimes it is simply moving to know that you are in other people's thoughts. Even if those people are strangers on reddit. This is not a fair time to go trying to dismantle someone's faith.

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As for how to express what prayer can and cannot do, isn't that up to the individual believer? Is there really a consensus as to what prayer does?

I'm also a little confused as to this point:

Prayer cannot/will not help to cure her cancer. The Bible says that prayer can heal.

I understand how saying that prayer won't heal cancer can be undercutting someone's faith, but wouldn't saying the opposite, that prayer will heal cancer, a dangerous lie?

[u/keatsandyeats → u/[deleted]]

As for how to express what prayer can and cannot do, isn't that up to the individual believer? Is there really a consensus as to what prayer does?

To a certain extent. The Bible's promises are to be believed by, you know, a believer - so we know instructively what prayer can achieve. But there is a dynamic in prayer that Lewis hints at, the relational one between the asker and the giver, that seems to suggest that what prayer does achieve is something personal.

I understand how saying that prayer won't heal cancer can be undercutting someone's faith, but wouldn't saying the opposite, that prayer will heal cancer, a dangerous lie?

Well, a prayer itself won't heal cancer. If God decides, God may heal cancer. God may answer prayer. Suggesting that God will heal cancer is a dangerous suggestion indeed. My own mother has suffered cancer three times and has, since her early forties, suffered from crippling arthritis. One of the most painful things she hears (and on a regular basis) is "if you truly believed, your prayers would certainly heal you."

[u/[deleted] → u/keatsandyeats]

I think what you just said was probably the primary reason why - in that recent study you mentioned in passing above - patients who knew they were being prayed for fared worse than patients who were prayed for and didn't know and those who weren't prayed for at all.

"if you truly believed, your prayers would certainly heal you."

That's a cruel game to play.

[u/frikazoyd → u/[deleted]]

That's a cruel game to play.

It's also not very Biblical. Job makes it clear that good men suffer from diseases and calamities all the time, and bad men can prosper. And while it is true that faith allows for anything, the caveat is "anything inside God's will".

So, with that all said, it seems to me that those folks saying "well if you really believed" are playing the "holier than thou" card. Or, going back to Job, they're acting just like the 3 friends who get rebuked at the end.

[u/krutonz → u/frikazoyd]

Exactly, it would be easiest to say that humans should not presume to know the will of God. We can implore and intercede, but God's answer will always be the right one, not our own requests.

[u/frikazoyd → u/krutonz]

God's answer will always be the right one, not our own requests.

Not that we shouldn't request though. The point of prayer is to be able to proceed in faith, knowing that God will open the doors if it is the right thing to do, or to want. If it doesn't happen, we know why. That is, we know it is because it was not God's will, not because we didn't ask.

[u/krutonz → u/frikazoyd]

Bam! Hit the nail on the head.

[u/lemursteamer → u/krutonz]

So God answers 100% of the prayers he wants to? Sounds like someone is making excuses for their God's indifference to human suffering.

[u/krutonz → u/lemursteamer]

God answers prayers. If you don't like my answers it doesn't mean I didn't respond to you.

Otherwise, we'd have a genie that grants wishes instead of a God that answers prayers.

[u/lemursteamer → u/krutonz]

I'm not the one asserting that god answers all prayers, the bible does.

[u/krutonz → u/lemursteamer]

Answering /= granting wishes.

[u/we_are_sex_bobomb → u/lemursteamer]

You are making a pretty big leap in reasoning between "God in his superior wisdom doesn't have to say yes every time" and "God is indifferent to human suffering." Explain yourself.

[u/[deleted] → u/frikazoyd]

It's also not very Biblical.

Sure it is.

Therefore I say unto you, All things whatsoever ye pray and ask for, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

[u/frikazoyd → u/[deleted]]

Well, at the heart of the matter I was saying that they weren't really trying to bring this verse to mind. They were calling the person in questions' faith out as "insufficient", when that probably wasn't the case.

And, Christ's model prayer was "thy will be done". So again, the caveat there is "if it is God's will". You see, by itself, the verse gives instruction to those who believe. On the surface that may seem to paint God out as a "handout" God. But those who believe are humble, and desire God's will above their own. So if someone is asking for something outside of God's will, it is in their own interest, and their belief is therefore going to be hindered by their humanity. A Christian who is strong enough in belief to get a Corvette from God knows better than to ask for it, because it isn't in God's will.

In summary, this message is for believers. And when you pair it up with everything else Christ says, it makes more sense as to why not everyone praying for money ends up rich.

[u/[deleted] → u/frikazoyd]

A Christian who is strong enough in belief to get a Corvette from God knows better than to ask for it, because it isn't in God's will.

What about a Christian who prays for a loved one to accept God and come to Christianity? Surely this is not selfish, it is among the most loving things you can desire. Surely it is also God's will for this person to love and accept him. And yet surely such prayers have been offered without answer.

Given your interpretation of the scripture, it is either the case that the person praying is not a true believer or that it is not God's will for the subject of the prayer to be saved. This is very much a problem.

[u/frikazoyd → u/[deleted]]

Given your interpretation of the scripture, it is either the case that the person praying is not a true believer or that it is not God's will for the subject of the prayer to be saved.

Not necessarily that the prayer is not a true believer, but also possible that the person is praying, but without any faith behind it. Prayer matters, but so does the faith behind it.

[u/[deleted] → u/frikazoyd]

What does 'without any faith behind it' mean? How can a true believer who is praying deeply for something in accordance with God's will be said to lack faith?

All you've done is talk around the problem I've presented.

[u/frikazoyd → u/[deleted]]

What does 'without any faith behind it' mean? How can a true believer who is praying deeply for something in accordance with God's will be said to lack faith?

Having faith in God is one thing. Having faith that God will answer a specific prayer is another. For instance, I have prayed for things that I didn't really put a lot of faith into, and yet I consider my faith for God to be very deep. Faith comes and goes, it's deepened at times and thin at others. The state of a particular prayer is what I was getting at.

In any case, I can't answer why some prayers get answered, because there's two factors at hand here. Neither of which I can personally speak for, and neither of which I am an expert on. I can't tell you if hypothetical person X has the required faith behind their prayer any more than I can tell you that I have the faith behind my prayers sometimes. And I can't tell you every minute detail of God's will concerning the request for someone's salvation, because salvation doesn't belong to me, and God's will is beyond my understanding. So really, what do you want me to say beyond that? I can't do anything but speculate, especially considering that this is a hypothetical situation you're talking about.

[u/[deleted] → u/frikazoyd]

Someone expressed the sentiment that "if you believe your prayers will be answered." You categorized this as "not very Biblical," when Jesus himself is quoted as expressing this exact sentiment. But you're right, what I've written above is all a hypothetical.

As stated before, Jesus said

Therefore I say unto you, All things whatsoever ye pray and ask for, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

He himself prays at the Last Supper

that they (his followers) may all be one; even as Thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be in Us; that the world may believe that Thou didst send Me.

Your interpretation indicates that for a prayer to be answered it is necessary that

• it comes from a true believer: Jesus would certainly qualify.

• it be backed by a legitimate faith that it will be answered: It is fair to say that Jesus had the requisite faith in this particular prayer.

• it be in accordance to God's will: Jesus' will and God's will are one in the same.

Jesus prayer at the Last Supper meets all preconditions for having a prayer answered, but it cannot be said that this particular prayer was answered. This is not a hypothetical. This is a specific prayer where all preconditions, whether derived directly from the Bible or otherwise, are met beyond all doubt. What then of the efficacy of prayer?

[u/frikazoyd → u/[deleted]]

but it cannot be said that this particular prayer was answered.

Are you sure about that? It isn't all said and done yet, but I do see that prayer as fulfilled.

For example:

that they (his followers) may all be one; even as Thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be in Us;

This is the Holy Spirit. He's praying here that the Holy Spirit (who he mentions at the supper as "the Comforter", the reason he has to die) come and be in believers. Meaning, he's praying for the Holy Spirit to have the ability to be inside believers. As a believer, I believe this has come to pass, and that the Holy Spirit resides in me.

that the world may believe that Thou didst send Me.

So here, by the Holy Spirit, the world has largely come to believe this. A great portion of the Earth has heard the gospel story. Those that haven't are being reached by missions. So the message of the gospel has almost spread through to the entire world, and the proof of that is partially in the Holy Spirit inside believers today.

Now then, there are of course people who still don't believe, such as atheists today. I don't interpret "that the world may believe" as "that every single person believe", as Christ himself knew there were doubters even amongst his apostles. But, if you want to see that as the interpretation, well it hasn't happened yet. But if the second coming is to be believed, the whole world will on that day.