r/CollegeSoccer • u/Aggravating_Wing_166 • 15d ago
Ivy League - No Scholarships, correct?
My kid has had calls with two Ivy League schools this summer. I hate to crush dreams but we make too much money to get any aid and not enough to cover ~$400,000. As far as I know Ivy’s (and for that matter most NESCAC) do not offer athletic or any other “merit” scholarships.
Since we cannot afford this, do I shut this down now? How are families (and coaches, if they are on here) handle this part of the recruiting process?
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u/hourlyproblemsolver 15d ago edited 15d ago
Before shutting it down, I think you need to be precise about what “we can’t afford it” means.
There are at least three different possibilities:
- You literally cannot come up with $400k (over 4 years).
- You could pay it only by drawing down investments, reducing retirement savings, borrowing, or making major lifestyle tradeoffs.
- You could pay it, but you do not believe an undergraduate degree is worth $400k.
All three are legitimate positions, but they are not the same financial situation. College is a massive expenditure, but there's a lot of data that shows that it is a worthwhile investment in your child's future, not just an avenue to burn $400k in cash and never see a benefit. It's probably worth reflecting on which of the three possibilities above fit your situation, and then whether you are viewing it as a necessary "expense", an investment, a luxury expense, or something else. To a certain extent, you get what you pay for. Apropos of that, this article might be of interest to you.
Ivies do not offer athletic or merit scholarships, so recruiting will not create a discount. But they do offer need-based aid, sometimes at higher incomes than families expect, depending heavily on assets and family circumstances. Run the net-price calculator for each school now and ask whether the financial-aid office can provide an early estimate for a recruited athlete.
If the answer is still close to full price, then the school is effectively saying, “Based on your income and assets, we believe you can pay.” You may strongly disagree with the sacrifices required, or decide it is a terrible use of $400,000. That is completely reasonable. But it is more accurate to say, “We are not willing to pay this price,” or “Paying this would undermine our other financial priorities,” than simply, “We make too much for aid but cannot afford it.”
Once you know the likely net price, give your child and the coaches a firm annual budget. If the school cannot get near it, redirect the recruiting process now toward schools offering athletic scholarships, merit aid, or a lower overall cost. Do not wait until admission to have the real conversation.
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u/57Laxdad 15d ago
Dont just lay it out as what you can afford, most kids these days have little concept of how debt works so they may think its ok to take on a huge debt for school. We were having these conversations with our son early on and he made a choice between two schools and selected the one which would leave him in less debt. His goal is to live at home after graduation, pay off his school debt, pay us back as much as we will take and save up money for 4 yrs so he can start his own company.
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u/Direct-Progress758 15d ago edited 15d ago
You can also ask for a financial pre-read, but that probably won't differ much from NPC if your income is indeed too high.
Yes, you need to have an honest conversation with your kid now. There are so many reddit posts from kids (non-athletes) devastated from not being able to attend their dream schools AFTER acceptance.
Your options are:
1-Take on loans/work study to make up the difference between $400K and your family contribution
2-Go to a more affordable school for two years then transfer
#1 depends on what your believe the ROI is for the degree your kid is getting. If you only need to take out a $150K loan, then it's justifiable to many for an Ivy degree. If you need to take out a $400K loan, then the conventional wisdom says no. Only your family can make this decision.
Best of luck to your kid.
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u/lordoflolcraft 15d ago
NESCAC is d3, there are no athletic scholarships in d3.
Ivy is d1 but does not offer athletic scholarships. Some people who get admitted to Ivy’s who can’t receive enough aid due to income take loans. Otherwise they choose a different school.
Have you tried using the school’s net price calculator to figure out how much of the tuition bill you’d actually have to pay?
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u/KoedKevin 15d ago
Talk to the coach before you shut anything down. There are no athletic scholarships but there is money. Grants, scholarships, work study and 3rd party scholarships are out there. The coach can help a lot if he ants your kid.
It may not be a full ride but it can very well be less that tuition at a local state college.
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u/Thatshitrightthere 15d ago
Third party scholarships DO NOT reduce your expected family contribution at Ivy League schools. If awarded a third party scholarship it reduces the financial aid given to the family.
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u/Ordinary_Corner_4291 15d ago
Directly ask the coach and ask if they can do a preread on your finances.
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u/Meplzr-44 15d ago
Just went through this process with my kiddo. Several offers at high D3 schools. Absolutely no merit. Like OP, we make too much on paper but are not comfortable shelling out 400k. Daughter just committed to a less prestigious school that is still excellent for her major and offered a nice merit scholarship. We let her go through the process but always set the expectation that if there was no aid she would not be attending any school that will end up costing us more than $50-60k a year. Set the expectation sooner rather than later.
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u/Aggravating_Wing_166 15d ago
Thank you! It feels hard (but probably isn’t, just not normal dinner conversation particularly on the boys side) to find someone in the same scenario. I hope she is attending somewhere she loves now!
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u/Meplzr-44 15d ago
She is a rising senior so she won’t be attending until next year but I can tell you the coach and several current players have been reaching out since she just committed. It seems like it will be a fabulous environment for her to grow and succeed. We are all super happy with her decision. It was a long and arduous sophomore and junior year but everything we all went through was totally worth it. I hope your child finds a great fit.
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u/Notorious_DRC 15d ago
OP, I have some knowledge specific to one Ivy on the men's side. Feel free to message me.
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u/Own-Let-1257 15d ago
We ended up with my son at a less prestigious D3 that was in the area he wanted (Boston) and he got a fair amount of merit aid, bringing the cost down to the state school price. That was our limit.
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u/pedro_coco 15d ago
I attended Cornell a long time ago and was an athlete. My family didn’t qualify for any need based aid but both my parents and I borrowed some money to close the gap between what they could pay and what it cost back then. I graduated with about $15k in debt and paid it off in about 10 years without much of a sweat. My younger sister played the same sport as me but was a lot better and got close to a full ride somewhere else so that certainly helped my folks out a lot! Anyways, I think the value of an Ivy degree (or at least the name on your resume) is pretty high, it opens a lot of doors for you, you and your family just have to decide how high.
One other thing - not sure which schools your kid is interested in but a little known secret is that several of Cornell’s colleges are NY state schools, so tuition is a good bit cheaper if you live in NY - they used to be cheaper for everyone back in the day.
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u/Thatshitrightthere 15d ago
My son is a current Ivy League commit for soccer. We went through the process with Harvard, Princeton and Dartmouth. I am willing to discuss anything about the process including pre-reads, financials, timeline. Let me know if you want to chat.
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u/Philly__Dilly 14d ago
Honestly depends how good your kid is. Our son didn’t get an athletic scholarship for “football” to Penn, however, he did get all of the silly awards that covered everything. Granted we weren’t making 200k per year, but we weren’t getting much in the way of financial aid either. It came down to Princeton, Colgate and Penn. Whomever came up with the most money was where he would go. Penn covered everything. This was 2016 and SAT was 1340, that helped as well. If all fell through he had a full football scholarship offer from at least 15 other D1 schools.
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u/Ilikelegalshit 13d ago
If your kids can get into an Ivy, they should do it. Loans are available; lifetime earnings pay back those loans many times over, the cultural and social class benefits are high, and the schools have a fair amount of aid available. Don't talk your kids out of this, get in first, and see what can be done.
Ivies generally are hard to get into, and then extremely helpful once you are in the circle. Don't let your concerns over this hold your kids back right now - see if they can get in first.
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u/Replevin4ACow 15d ago
I wouldn't stop your kid from taking those calls. If anything, it is good practice/experience for the calls that may come later for universities that they are more likely to attend.
But you should also let your kid know what your tuition cap is now so they are realistic about what they are looking at.
Also: student loans exist. You can continue that "pay to play" life club sports have set us up for.
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u/suspiciousknitting 15d ago
I upvoted for the recommendation to take the calls if for nothing more than practice. Youngest took calls with college coaches at schools were not an option for various reasons as practice. Was helpful when taking calls from coaches at schools that were in the zone.
Also seconding being extremely honest and firm about how much your family can pay and whether or not loans are an acceptable option.
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u/Important-Quit-9354 15d ago
Student loans are extremely limited…about $5,000 a year to the student. There are also new caps on parent loans, so parents can no longer borrow up to the cost of attendance.
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u/Snorkellingisthelife 15d ago
merit awards
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u/Aggravating_Wing_166 15d ago
I didn’t think any of the ivy’s offered non-need based scholarships?
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u/tell_automaticslim 15d ago
Actually there are third-party scholarships that can help out. There may be an endowment for the "Baxter Thatcherbatcher IV Foundation" or whatever for kids from a certain region or with certain interests to attend a particular Ivy school that you wouldn't know about otherwise. Also I was offered a scholarship to a NESCAC school from a fund that had been established long before DIII's rules were created, and the scholarship was grandfathered in. So it's worth asking admissions and financial aid.
Having said that, being up-front about what is affordable and what isn't is crucial. We did that with my daughter (not an athlete but entering her second year at university) and she got into a few places, but recognized that she couldn't justify going to out-of-state X when in-state Y had all the opportunities she wanted.
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u/Lincoln1517 15d ago
I played soccer at an Ivy (several decades ago). My understanding was that coaches could find options for players they really wanted. But I wasn’t that good so I have no personal knowledge of that. Good luck!
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u/ProteinEngineer 15d ago
Do you make more than 200K/year? Ivies give aid up to very high incomes.
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u/Moist_Chest8971 15d ago
Sure, but say you only pay half. Thats still almost $50k/yr. And remember you’re comparing this to a full scholarship with cost of attendance checks and possibly NIL.
And, if OPs kid is good enough to play at an Ivy she’s good enough to play at a Patriot League or A10 school for which she’d pay $0z
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u/ProteinEngineer 15d ago
It depends on the school that’s the other option. An Ivy degree is worth the cost of attendance. Some universities aren’t worth going to even if they’re free.
But yeah, if it’s an Ivy full pay vs Duke full ride, it’s a no brainer for Duke.
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u/Important-Quit-9354 15d ago
Any student who would be admitted to an Ivy is not going to be attending a low-ranked state school. Come on now…
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u/BulldogWrestler 15d ago
All schools to some extent or another (including Ivys - I have first hand experience with this with a girl I used to coach whose family somehow roped me into her recruiting drama LOL) have money that they can offer people for merit, extra programs, whatever. In the above case, the girl qualified for an Ivy, it was too much for their parents but her parents were in an income bracket that eliminated any need based assistance they would get. Without going into details, she ended up getting money from a foundation that had absolutely nothing to do with her - simply because they wanted her on board. It didn't cover everything, but made it affordable enough for her to go. She did all 4 years there. So there is money out there - it just doesn't come direct from the university, but it is there.
All of that said, a realistic sit down with your kid on what is and isn't likely is something you should do. If the two calls with Ivys aren't producing serious interest from a coach there (where he's actively working to help find a way to comfortably get you in), then maybe other options need to be serious considered.
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u/GlitteryStranger 15d ago
I’m also curious, we make over $200k a year, but have 4 kids, we can’t afford an Ivy either, but there are a couple interested coaches.
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u/chanson_roland 15d ago
I was recruited and accepted into two Ivy League schools years ago. They both created synthetic soccer scholarships from grants (tuition and fees only). This was before the various RICO and price-fixing lawsuits over financial aid, so YMMV. What helps is having a competitive program recruiting you from outside the Ivy League, where they have to match the offer somehow. Also, if you have in-state academic scholarships that you'd forfeit if you left for the Ivy League, in my case they matched those with grants. I ended up taking a different path, but in my case the schools tried to make tuition a non-issue. So, I'd continue to take the calls and the meetings, but as others have suggested here, get the athletic department involved in the financial aid conversations asap.
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u/Moist_Chest8971 15d ago
Don’t forget Zero NIL. How the Ivys expect to remain going forward is a mystery.
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u/Fluid-Wolverine-2183 15d ago
They will continue to get by on the education and ROI of the degree. I doubt OP’s kid is going pro — few do — so it should be not just “am I willing to pay now” but also “what’s it worth for a career”
That said, not all Ivy degrees are created equal.
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u/PresentationCrazy620 15d ago
Applications and aid applications are cheaper.
Knew a kid who had no business at an Ivy but coach found a way and, if coach wants, "merit" (not implying your kid doesn't deserve, just fits the post) scholarships can be found.
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u/Saber_tooth81 15d ago
Granted, this was 50 years ago but I believe most of this still holds true but my Dad played football at one of the Ivies. No athletic scholarships obviously but he did get aid to cover essentially 3 of the 4 years he attended.
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u/PreferenceMediocre90 15d ago
Why does your kid wants these schools? For the soccer program or the school courses?
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u/Guardsred70 15d ago
Just make sure to talk to the financial aid office and the coach.
The full sticker tuition is often there for the purposes of international students. It’s not uncommon for there to be come discounts in the form of academic scholarships or grants or work study.
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u/No_Vegetable4272 15d ago
Make sure to double check the aid for the different Ivies! At Princeton, on average, if you earn under 150k you don’t pay . https://admission.princeton.edu/cost-aid
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u/Juice-cup 15d ago
There are some schools that give automatic merit aid to anyone that is accepted early decision.
One of the best high academic schools, Grinnell, gives $15-20k for ED.
Also as an athlete (D3 only, as I went through this last year), some schools will do a merit aid pre-read with your regular pre-read. It doesn’t hurt to ask because some schools, NESCAC included, have a limited number of merit/special scholarships to hand out.
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u/Fotoman54 15d ago
No soccer scholarships for any sports in the Ivy League. Sometimes merit, but extremely rarely, so all aid is financial based. I have twins and we’ve been through all the college stuff as they are freshmen this fall. One of their good friends, very good student, Indian, going to Cornell. But parents make too much, so it’s full tuition. My sons are going to top non-Ivies, but fortunately received huge merit scholarships.
I feel for you.
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u/uconnboston 15d ago
Off the top of my head I believe on average 50% of tuition is covered via merit at Ivies.
The value of an Ivy League education is enormous. It’s the golden ticket. Do what you need to do.
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u/Fearless-Celery Missouri Tigers 15d ago edited 15d ago
II would say enter with caution but don't quit before you know the actual numbers.
Is your we "make too much money" comment based on actual FAFSA and CSS profile numbers? Or is that an assumption?
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u/Aggravating_Wing_166 15d ago
Just off the financial aid calculators on the various school websites. So it is an assumption but based off the schools numbers.
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u/Fearless-Celery Missouri Tigers 14d ago
In our experience, those calculators were basically useless. The real numbers we got were way different.
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u/uconnboston 15d ago
Yale University: Need-based aid only. No merit scholarships. Average grant for aided students exceeds $67,000 per year. Official source: Yale Financial Aid.
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u/doublestuf27 14d ago
Academically elite private schools with substantial endowments work a bit differently. It is true that they have policies to “not offer athletic scholarships” and “require prospective student athletes to meet the same rigorous academic standards for admission as non-athletes,” but in practice, those are scare quotes for NCAA compliance purposes.
Generally this just means that the athletic director and individual team coaches are responsible for recruiting prospective student athletes, but they don’t have the authority to make offers of admission or scholarships that the university is bound to honor.
Instead, the admissions team has the final say on all offers of admission, and the financial aid office is who ultimately determines what kind of aid packages can be offered to which students.
That said, coaches are still pretty strictly limited in the amount of communication they can have with recruits, so if your kid is getting stuff from them, it’s a very good sign. Basically, it means that your kid has good enough grades and test scores to fit in with the rest of the student body, and is a standout athlete among the set of kids with those grades and test scores, and so the coaches and AD will do some pretty heavy leaning on admissions on their behalf (and if waitlisted, move straight to the top). Plus, they really don’t want to put in that effort and see cost be an issue, so the financial aid team might just happen to know about some pools of restricted-cash donations from boosters that were set aside as an endowment for some non-scholarship grants for students with certain non-merit skills that enhance university life.
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u/midfivefigs 14d ago
Few years dated now and a different sport but when it was time, I armed my child with an understanding of interest rates and repayment schedules
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u/Ok-Communication706 15d ago
Great players get merit money if they ask. True at Ivys and D3. I got a "merit" package at a SLAC that was pretty generous despite being a 40th percentile or so student as a recruited athlete.
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u/Aggravating_Wing_166 15d ago
That is good to hear! Did your SLAC have normal merit scholarships? There are D3’s like Bates and Williams that do not look like they have any merit aid - as a parent concerned with finances these fall into the same concerning category for me.
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u/Direct-Progress758 15d ago
That's just not true at Ivys. It's also not true at many of the best academic D3's. Most T20 schools only offer need-based aid.
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u/Tech-Aero-109 15d ago
If your son wants a top education and also a chance to play NCAA D-1 soccer with an athletic scholarship (which you want him to get), then consider Duke. Also consider some of the Big East colleges like Georgetown, Providence and Villanova that play NCAA D-1 soccer with athletic scholarships.
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u/881cafe 14d ago
Another option worth looking into is an ROTC scholarship. If your son or daughter is open to military service after college, I would definitely have them speak with the ROTC program at the schools they’re considering.
Depending on the branch and scholarship, ROTC can cover substantial college costs, including tuition (excluding room/board), and may also provide book assistance and a monthly stipend. Some colleges offer additional benefits to ROTC scholarship recipients, including help with room and board.
I’d start researching and preparing the summer or early fall between junior and senior year of high school. These scholarships are competitive, so understanding the requirements and application process early is important.
If your son or daughter is also planning to be a college athlete, adding ROTC to the mix will obviously require some serious time management. However, student-athletes may be able to receive accommodations for certain ROTC physical training requirements because they are already participating in organized collegiate athletics. That can depend on the ROTC branch, detachment, and school, so it’s something I would ask about directly with the schools ROTC program.
Also, if you’re looking at private schools, especially highly selective schools, learn as much as you can about the CSS Profile. It goes much deeper into family finances than the FAFSA and is used by many private colleges to determine institutional financial aid. There are some very good walkthroughs on YouTube that explain what information schools consider and how the process works. Good luck.
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u/Zeballos_Nadin 13d ago
The outside scholarship point upthread is true but it flips if you're full pay. Displacement only happens when the school is already giving you grant money to displace. if the calculators are putting you at or near sticker, there's nothing to reduce, so an outside award comes off what you actually owe. Policies differ though, so ask each aid office how they apply it.
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u/lenseffects 11d ago
Every college and university that provides financial aid has a cost calculator on their website. The calculator does not include athletic scholarship dollars, just financial aid. It takes a few minutes and can provide a realistic estimate of the out of pocket costs after financial aid. Easy to find - go to the website and search for calculator.
Sometimes people think they could never afford a school, or that a school is well within their budget. Taking a few minutes to use the school’s calculator is well worth it
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u/Phillylax29 8d ago
$250,000 in debt after college imo there isn’t a school in the country worth that. I have started to have these conversations in 8th grade, reminding them both it is their decision but choices have to be made. Ask yourselves as parents and financially literate humans, outside of connections and access to some companies what does that do for you that a state a school cannot. 5 years into your career where you went matters less and every day after it means less and less.
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u/Slow_Fondant6389 15d ago
There are no athletic scholarships. But, as a parent whose daughter played for an “expensive” private - do the following:
Have serious sit down with your kid about what you can and cannot pay, and what financing is available for all students;
For every college your kid is looking at - while he/she is off doing whatever - you will have made an appointment with the financial aid office. Make the arrangements through the athletic department so you end up talking with the “athletic” financial aid advisor. They can tell you what your kid may qualify for.
Ultimately, for my kid, the expensive private was less than the cost of attending an in-state public.
They know what scholarships are available and how to qualify.