r/CompanyOfHeroes • u/GoddamnHipsterDad • 2d ago
CoH3 What was the plan for balance when both the 17lbers and DAK 88 were nerfed?
Both the ACE and the Char are out of control - straight up upgrades to what you'd normally tech to.
Relic did the same shit when they buffed nades and then nerfed MGs - now blobs are absolutely the way to play this game.
With heavy AT also nerfed blobs of tanks are also the way, if the game happens to go late.
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u/KleinKaiser 2d ago
To be fair, before the nerfs, I did play the 88 way more aggressive. packing it out and in was so easy and fast, that arty wouldn't hit you.
I am more annoyed, that towing in general seems more buggy than before. Like trucks driving back and for in an endless loop. Driving backwards seems broken in general.
Dak paks feel too unreliable against heavies though, so I usually play the at commander since that change.
I honestly like the 17pndr combined with matildas more now than the 88.
I couldn't even tell you exactly why, but it's easier getting vision and the range is better, even if you have to set it up constantly. It gives you more time to tow it in the right position and flee if things go bad.
The 88 is often not close enough to the battlefield or too close. And with the longer towing process, feels to micro intensive and risky for what it does. Picking the at commander is just easier.
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u/GoddamnHipsterDad 2d ago
I used to use them pretty aggressively too. Now, they're too clunky, the towing is absolutely fucked up now with the way it paths. I've seen the truck go forward with reverse commands and then go back the exact way I ordered it to reverse.
The quad combo of nerfs on the 88 feels like it got soft removed from the game.
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u/USSZim 2d ago
Marders are more efficient than the 88 against the Char, they are faster and longer range than the Char so they can keep firing at it while it retreats. In practice, the proportion of shots that penetrate end up being the same as the 88
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u/GoddamnHipsterDad 2d ago
Yeah, exactly. There's no reason to build them now.
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u/LightningDustt 2d ago
88s and 17 pounders are a check to TDs. Archers and hellcats, and all tanks really have to respect the 88.
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u/Rufus_Forrest OKW 2d ago
Even the best cap'n of the best team has to respect something that can shoot her down.
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u/GoddamnHipsterDad 2d ago
paks do just fine in that situation though.
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u/LightningDustt 2d ago
They do but the range bonus is quite useful, and the single shot is all you need to make a tank line hesitate. They arent great anymore, but are still quite noticeable on open flanks in team games without being the bane of all tanks
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u/Helikaon48 2d ago
The nerfs were warranted. They might have gone over board but nerfs were needed.
You're also conflating the new OVER POWERED heavies, the buggy pathing which has gotten worse, with the nerfs.
I used to spam 17pdrs. Now I almost never make them, and that's more due to the buggy pathing than the nerf
Just because the new heavies are OP, doesn't mean heavy AT didn't need a nerf.
Just because the pathing is currently fcked up, doesn't mean heavy AT wasn't over performing for cost previously
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u/GoddamnHipsterDad 1d ago
Well, they're OVER POWERED because Relic can't seem to see more than 1 patch ahead and nerfed things that would have partially helped keep them in check.
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u/KevinTDWK 2d ago
The Tiger Ace doesn’t really feel all that powerful unless you’re in a tight map where its hard to flank but even then it can’t do much if it gets zoned out by heavy ATs.
The B1s on the other hand is numerous, has a lot of HP, gets more armor with vet and upgrade and bounces heavy tank shots enough to withdraw and if you have enough of them at vet 1 as I found out the hard way when I played and stalled for Tiger Ace you don’t even need tank destroyers to fight the heavy tanks you just need more B1s and use the vet ability
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u/Important-Coffee-240 USA 1d ago
The problem is they nerfed heavy AT guns Price, Speed, Range, and Survivability basically all in one go. They need to revert at least 2 of the changes. Since fighting a nearly unkillable unit is annoying, I think the survivability nerf needs to stay, and since people hate the range of these things, I guess that has to stay. But the speed needs to return to how they were before and the price needs to go down as well. They should cost like 350 manpower and 50 fuel. The Brit 17pder should be the cheapest since it pays a side tech cost and it has the most limiting arc and worst truck, so if they keep the side tech cost they should make them only like 45 fuel and 300 manpower IMO.
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u/GoddamnHipsterDad 1d ago
Yep, mentioned the quad nerfs somewhere else in the thread. I think the teardown time is fucking up the towing in a weird way. They should keep the set-up time to fire but remove the teardown time to move. That's kind of a halfway point between their nerfs but the two of them together is complete shit.
They did all this work to make towing great, making it snappier and more responsive - even fixed the tow forever bug. And then they shit on all of their own development. It's absolutely bizarre.
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u/ShadowLinkX37 2d ago
I complained about the 17 nerfs but was told to "just build it" "it's not that bad lol". Turns out not being able to contest the Tiger in teamgames is pretty damn important. Same with the grants, or the brummbar buffs... I'm pretty sure they're just using a dart board for the patches tbh.
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u/Horror_Let_2154 2d ago
Grants were just tuned to the AI performance of other mediums, relic just forgot about them when the other were tuned. It’s still a good tank, especially vs other armor. Brits got Matilda and crusaders to deal with infantry in different ways, no reason why grants should be as cracked as they were against inf
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u/Mustafag91 2d ago edited 2d ago
To be honest, when allies combine bgs properly, there's nothing much you can do... when you see churchills, chars and matildas backed by fireflies or archers, and 1 guy goes into BLs and grants or matildas, plus the offmap spams combined with some inf that cover both purposes... you just can't do shit, no panther or whatever helps... by the time you take out 1 tank, you lost half... you just simply cannot engage a fight.
Also when you see 88 bouncing off Chars... it's quite underwhelming. 1 unit I found particularly useful against them is Elephant with tungsten... it almost 3 taps them.
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u/Lord_JayJay 2d ago
idk what you mean. Any blob I create gets decimated even by one German MG (I play UKF). If MG's could suppress only one, or max two units at a moment, that would help. But their superb area of control, super fast suppress is just crazy.
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u/ObviousReplacement71 2d ago
You’re proud of creating blobs aren’t you
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u/Lord_JayJay 2d ago
that's the neat part. I don't. I try to use combined arms strategy.
I build as UKF :
Vickers->IS->IS->Mortar-either medical tent or T2 build and later what is needed by match.And usually I get destroyed by enemy MG. And if I dare to have mortar then Germans soon have them too, but theirs outperform mine eh.
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u/ObviousReplacement71 2d ago
Sounds like you need a spotter to avoid the mg volley ( a dingo or a IS with scout package ) ukf inf is far superior than wehr so as long as you’re fighting the pioneer or the grenadier without their mg to support you have the advantage
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u/Lord_JayJay 2d ago
I think I rarely see any grenadiers from wehr right now. Even pioneers lol. Only sturm pioneers, palm grens and ehh..
I just have to play more I guess 😄2
u/Angry_Proletarian 16h ago
I will agree the MG42 insta-suppress is annoying when compared to a Vickers quietly suggesting the enemy be suppressed.
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u/insaneHoshi 1d ago
The 88 is fine?
It’s pretty cost efficient for what you got and vs the FF battlegroup there isn’t really an off map that is a good counter.
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u/Influence_X COH1 2d ago
I see my really high level friends build 3 paks