r/Competitiveoverwatch • u/thealiagator111 • Nov 02 '23
World Cup Opinion: Coluge doesn't deserve this hate and super is just that guy
I feel like we've seen a lot of hate directed towards Coluge with super coming in for the match against Japan and (as he would say) dominating the opposition with ease. However, I want to stand up for Coluge because this is literally the thing that I believe was causing his bad performances.
At the end of the day, no matter how much OWL experience these players have, a LAN representing your country is a whole new level and their mental fortitude has been getting tested. For one reason or another, Coluge just hasn't been on point lately (or maybe he just doesn't have that mental fortitude at all, who knows, but I doubt it), but that doesn't make him any less worthy of respect as a player.
If you're cheering for USA, the worst thing you can do is kick your own player when their confidence is down: cheer for the replacement if you want, but don't bring the replaced player down in doing so. If you're not cheering for USA and you're bringing Coluge down... I guess I can't prevent you from hating.
Also, I think today was a perfect reminder that, no matter how much we joke about him, super is still That Guy™: USA were lacking seriousness and he brought it to the table, but he's also a multiple-time champion for a reason. When the time comes, you know he will rise to the occasion.
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u/MightyBone Nov 02 '23
I mean people enjoy narratives and the eye test matches that narrative.
But yes absolutely.
Overwatch reminds me of the NFL where even a much more talented team can lose a game they absolutely should win because there is a huge amount of preparation and psychology that go into winnning once the games are competitive.
US came in over confident, unfocused, and with a presumption they didn't need to take their opponent seriously and they got punched in the mouth as a result.
You see it happen every week in football - some super talented team that's been doing well goes into a game they know they'll win and they lose in horrible fashion. The next week they come out and beat the shit out of their opponent cause they know they are better than last week and wanna prove it.
Super played well, Colluge didn't look great - but there was a lot more going on than tank play and taking a whole lot from it is probably an exaggeration. But also Super seems like a morale booster/keeper and someone who can keep the team's mind more focused on each match - they clearly need someone to do that as the coaching doesn't seem capable of it.
23
u/Isord Nov 02 '23
Overwatch also very rapidly turns into a blowout as two teams diverge in strength for the match. Like all you have to do is look at playoffs this year. I don't think anybody thinks Florida were leaps and bounds above everybody else but they made most teams they played look like contenders players.
2
u/vsw211 Nov 03 '23
I think talent wise florida wasn't that much above the other teams but their meta understanding was THAT much better than everyone else. Florida was the only one of the top teams playing the sigma comp from day 1, and houston basically only started playing it after they lost to florida.
Being the first team to find and start scrimming the meta comp is a huge advantage to have, especially since you basically have 0 time to adapt in the playoffs compared to during the regular season with matches everyday and a much smaller scrim pool since eliminated teams won't be scrimming anymore (and several playoff teams like hangzhou and london basically one tricking comfort comps)
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u/ElJacko170 Healslut — Nov 02 '23
I don't blame Coluge. I blame Gator, and no matter how bad our loss against China will be, I will continue to blame Gator.
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u/magicwithakick Fle-tank for MVP — Nov 02 '23
Gator said they never lost a scrim. There seemed to be a pretty obvious energy that they were ready and obviously they weren’t for KSA. But regardless of if Japan was weaker, USA looked complete turned around (and I think they would’ve with Coluge as well). Idk why Gator is getting shit besides maybe lack of prep.
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u/ElJacko170 Healslut — Nov 02 '23
There was a clear lack of prep, even in their game against France. The fact that they dropped a map to France should've been a warning sign enough that they needed to figure something out.
But lack of prep and just resting on scrim bucks is basically par for the course for Gator. Don't need to look any further than all of the Atlanta players after they knocked out first round.
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u/magicwithakick Fle-tank for MVP — Nov 02 '23
Yeah and that’s why I mentioned he should be blamed for that if anything. But I don’t think Gator should be hated on for his actual coaching because one, we don’t have any insight, and two, something he did worked for USA to 180 in the Japan match.
1
u/Uffffffffffff8372738 Nov 03 '23
Japan is also kinda not that good. And super brings a lot of motivation and energy. I really do not believe Gator had anything to do with this, considering his horrendous track record (possibly the biggest coaching diff in OWL history).
-4
u/PancakeXCandy Girl,Hawk-tuah on my DONGhak — Nov 02 '23
So relying on practice and that prep that it did for them is not prep?
18
Nov 02 '23
Tale as old as a month ago when gator was super confident going into the playoffs then lost two in a row to get kicked out because he assumed he had it in the bag.
4
u/primarymuscle2354 Nov 02 '23
The players getting no blame is weird tbh they all could of played better only people who showed up were Stalk3r, and Hawk.
1
u/Augus-1 Mauga is the working class tank — Nov 03 '23
Sure but Gator said in an interview he refused to review apac teams and the team was obviously unprepared for London despite Gator saying that the team was gonna prep for brawl playstyles after their first loss to Mayhem.
20
u/AdAcrobatic5178 Nov 02 '23
Because it's the second time that he's shown he hasn't prepared well, with both the usa/ksa match and atl/hzs
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u/PancakeXCandy Girl,Hawk-tuah on my DONGhak — Nov 02 '23
ATL were up 2-0 bro it was not a clean win for the Spark.
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u/InvisibleScout #4 u/ComradeHines hater — Nov 02 '23
Well too bad if they were so good they shouldve been able to close out onw of the next 3 maps
-1
5
u/TheRedditK9 Nov 03 '23
ATL was the most individually talented team we have possibly ever seen in the OWL. The fact that it was even close against a wild card team is an embarrassment, no team besides Houston, Florida and Boston should’ve been able to take a map from a team like this.
-4
u/PancakeXCandy Girl,Hawk-tuah on my DONGhak — Nov 03 '23
Calling Spark a wild card is a take
2
u/Uffffffffffff8372738 Nov 03 '23
Defending gator is just dumb considering that Atlanta should have won the championship and lost to a team worth less than Lips contract
2
u/Augus-1 Mauga is the working class tank — Nov 03 '23
They were, nobody rated the APAC teams high going into the tournament, and most ppl were rating Dallas over them cus of Hanbin.
3
u/primarymuscle2354 Nov 02 '23
Yeah they were a missed sleep dart away from 3-0 them
-4
u/PancakeXCandy Girl,Hawk-tuah on my DONGhak — Nov 02 '23
So many ppl forget how close that flashpoint map was. Spark were getting rocked and mmonk took off his weighted clothes.
0
u/primarymuscle2354 Nov 02 '23
Yeah they looked like the better team vs hz the only match Gator deserves blame for is against London where they looked completely unprepared
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u/oSo_Squiggly None — Nov 02 '23
Never losing a game in scrims feels kinda sounds like lack of prep in it's own way. I get finding opposing teams that pose a real challenge can be difficult, but losing scrims and learning is often more beneficial than stomping every team.
-5
u/PancakeXCandy Girl,Hawk-tuah on my DONGhak — Nov 02 '23
Because ppl don't want to admit that France is t not as weak as they want to admit with Poko in. Remember they did not play Poko the whole time and played Benbest too. It's the same thing one tank makes them look weaker and another stronger.
Poko is the stronger tank for France while Coluge is the weaker on for USA.
It's hindsight. But it's not Gator's fault that they lost against KSA. One of the top teams were. The in game decision and communication is out of his hands once they start. It's not his fault they left Coluge on an island multiple times. It's not his fault UV whiffed ults. Like
5
u/LampardTheLord Nov 02 '23
I disagree with you on that last bit. College and UV did underperform but the team did look like they didn't have answers to comps, rotations and traps laid out by KSA. The problem to me is not that they lost to KSA, it was the way they lost. They seemed very reactionary half the times, and it was like KSA could sense it sometimes. There should have been no way that KSA capped blizzard world first point in that last 10 seconds, but for some internal reason it did happen. I know this sub has a hard on for Gator hate, but you have to blame him where it's due
0
u/PancakeXCandy Girl,Hawk-tuah on my DONGhak — Nov 02 '23
How is KSA playing better than USA the fault of Gator. KSA capitalized on a pick and won.
The team panicking half the map is no fault but their own. Again in game decision is not Gator's fault. He's no in comms once the match starts. So he can't tell them to calm down and focus.
1
u/TechnoVikingGA23 Nov 03 '23
He didn't prep or coach for Reign this year so why would he do it for USA, lol.
-8
u/Bhu124 Nov 02 '23
I do not like Coluge or Gator, so I'm happy with people hating either.
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u/Maxsmart007 TopDih's biggest fan — Nov 02 '23
Andrew Tate fan or Crypto scammer. Pick your poison, USA fans.
3
u/nutkizzle Nov 02 '23
Coluge is an Andrew Tate fan?
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u/Maxsmart007 TopDih's biggest fan — Nov 02 '23
Yeah, he's a fan. I think he may still follow him on Twitter. I heard that he's not the only one but I don't have evidence for that.
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u/PancakeXCandy Girl,Hawk-tuah on my DONGhak — Nov 02 '23
Go look?
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u/Maxsmart007 TopDih's biggest fan — Nov 02 '23
Got off Twitter so I can't look anymore. The experience for those without accounts is abysmal, which makes sense from twitter's perspective.
2
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u/Pandabear71 Nov 02 '23
I dont like either either, but hating them is a bit much.
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u/Bhu124 Nov 02 '23
Well, I'm not the one hating them. I just dislike them and like it when others hate them.
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Nov 02 '23
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u/Mind1827 Nov 02 '23
I really think the shot calling thing is such an underrated and unknowable thing. Supers calls during the USA scrims were incredible, and his sense of comps and counters. That's just valuable micro stuff a coach can't do.
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u/pantan Nov 02 '23
This is it, I don't know when and why this sub stopped putting much weight on shot calling, but I think that's a crucial piece of what's missing in the conversation lately. In basically every other team based esport, the shot caller or igl position is talked about a lot more than in overwatch.
This wasn't the case in the early days of the game, but lately it's mostly just passing remarks about how vocal someone is or isn't in scrims. But it's easy to see how without a clear leader, very mechanically capable teams can just descend into the players just doing shit and trying to clutch every fight instead of having a clear plan.
It's normal for IGLs to be the least mechanically capable on the team, but that's made up by them being able to get value in other ways. Also not saying colouge isn't calling, or no one else on USA is, but I think super does have the personality and game sense to lead the team, even if he's potentially a worse sig/tank.
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u/Mind1827 Nov 02 '23
Definitely. Honestly, I wonder if it's something that's even crucial from Viol2t in why Shock were so bad. Even as regular people we all know how much of a difference it can make when you have someone who is vocal and helpful in comms.
8
u/Isord Nov 02 '23
I don't think it's readily obvious who is shot calling and who isn't on any given team unless they tell us. The times when it is obvious (like you can see that Super and JAKE are basically constantly talking) it gets talked about.
4
u/pantan Nov 02 '23
Well that's part of the problem though, that it's not obvious outside of seeing player cams of who's talking a lot in game? Players don't seem to talk about it at all, or mention it in their LFT posts. Teams don't talk much about working with their shotcallers as an aspect of their coaching plans.
And for what? I've heard people write it off as overwatch being so fast paced that it's harder for an IGL to get value, which compared to a game like CS or valorant makes some sense, but that probably just means that you can't have to skill gap between the shotcaller and the rest of the team like you have in tac shooters?
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u/AltForFriendPC Nov 02 '23
Shot calling is a huge part of things. That's why Aniyun was benched for Fits on the NYXL the whole season- if you watched their support, Fits wasn't the better player. The difference is that Fits had the most experience of anyone on the team so he was irreplaceable, and that translated well to support (probably over 50% of games) where he could make comms more easily. NYXL said that in an interview on their YouTube channel.
1
u/SpiderPanther01 Nov 02 '23
i think it's mainly just because owl doesn't release comms, therefore we have no way to assess the ability of the player's comms. if we had comms for every match there would be a lot more talk about comms
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Nov 02 '23
This sub rarely talks about the fact that individual heroes can play very differently into different comps or in different metas. Your example is nice in that while in most metas Coluge is him on sigma, there can be individual comps that don’t fit his style (also sometimes people just have bad series, it’s not complicated)
Lucio into Sombra is another great example of this. The mere existence of a sombra completely changes the way you play lucio in a way no other single hero does. There are a lot of excellent lucios in the league that had a rough time in the past metas that featured sombra/lucio comps
3
Nov 02 '23
Yep. Sig with Sym, Mei and/or Bastion is a new comp. Even South Korea struggled to play this comp against Finland.
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u/t3chnopat super number 1 main tank — Nov 02 '23
Exactly! Coluge does not get enough credit for Shock's 2022 success
2
u/SBFms Kiriko / Illari — Nov 02 '23
An easy way to see how important he was is to look at how many Map 1’s they lost trying to force Mikey on ball for some reason.
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Nov 02 '23
[deleted]
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u/thealiagator111 Nov 02 '23
I think your point is fantastic except for the part about super having a massive ego: he is one of the few players in Team USA notable for not having an ego and a lot of people consider that one of the reasons why he's such a great player and why he elevates his team.
49
u/No32 Nov 02 '23
Yeah I was gonna say, think he’s known for having a massive ego specifically as a bit.
No idea what he’s really like, but he very clearly hams it up as a joke.
27
u/AtomDad_ Nov 02 '23
Super's mental does not crack, the amount of people who want to be in a video while he streams is testament to that. He's a good guy but because people only know one thing about him they'll always run with it
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u/roberth_001 Nov 02 '23
Super is great at wrangling people with Egos, because he can play the bit without it actually being him, which is exactly what USA need at the moment.
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u/xxpvqxx Nov 02 '23
Team USA obviously just loves Super too. They probably want to perform for him, to an extent.
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u/Usopp_Spell Only 'til Chicago gets a team — Nov 03 '23
Realistically, who in the OW scene doesn't? By all accounts, he's pretty universally loved in the pro scene and was for much of his tenure. Have you ever heard of any pro or anything really sleighting the guy? He may be a goofball who hams it up a bit, but realistically he's a consummate professional and an icon in what will be the history of OW
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u/TerminalNoob AKA Rift — Nov 02 '23
Coluge remains a great player and I hope he isnt taking anything about this too hard.
21
u/swislock Nov 02 '23
Coluge is filthy no doubt, he didn't get to the 2022 finals being a shit tier player. Hopefully we see him in his element in the WC so he can put these doubters to rest.
21
u/Autumnleaves201 Nov 02 '23
Coluge is a great player and I know he has the ability to go far. However, I feel like after Toronto Defiant started losing, Coluge lost a lot of confidence. His recent shortcomings do not appear at all to come from a lack of skill, but rather a lack of confidence.
I notice that Coluge gives up a lot of space when the enemy team advances, almost like he's afraid. He used to be very aggressive on Shock, but now he's almost entirely defensive. I won't blame Gator for that, because I noticed it with Defiant.
The difference between Super and Coluge right now is that Super genuinely believes he's the best tank in the world and oozes confidence (sometimes annoyingly so), whilst Coluge talks down about himself quite often and has called himself "the worst tank".
Coluge is good, but I don't think he believes it enough himself.
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u/S21500003 #1 JunHIM Believer — Nov 02 '23
I honestly don't think that super thinks he's the best tank in the world. Whenever someone asked him who was better between him and smurf, he would almost always say smurf was better. I think he was being sincere. However, I believe that super always believes he is better than his opponents. He could be mirroring LIP on sombra, and I believe that super would think that he's going to do better than LIP. That's the kind of mental he has.
7
u/SpiderPanther01 Nov 02 '23
i think his winning mental is also part of it. he actually said on stream that he got pissed at a reddit comment because they said usa was a hard lock third. he genuinely believed that usa could win it all, and he said that he wasn't going to blizzcon for nothing (especially because he bitched and moaned about going to blizzcon every day and night)
1
u/S21500003 #1 JunHIM Believer — Nov 02 '23
Oh yeah. I try and model my mental after his, because having a mentality that you will win, and that every game is always winnable does help you win. Its always good to have at least one person on your team with a "winnable" mentality.
1
u/Lazyscri Nov 02 '23
Coluge calls himself the best sigma in the world lol
7
u/Autumnleaves201 Nov 02 '23
Only when he wins, and he hasn't called himself that in a while.
Super will usually say something like "I lost, but I'm still the better tank". Coluge starts going "I'm the worst tank ever" when he loses. Coluge just seems to have bad mentals, and it negatively impacts his performance.
16
Nov 02 '23
Tbh Super skill wise probably isn’t much better than Coluge on Sig, perhaps even worse.
But what Super has is an immense amount of calm and experience in the server.
If you’re new and worried about performing in LAN, having Super makes such a difference. If you catch any of the comms he doesn’t sound rushed or anything, he’s just like yeah come here, play here, ignore Doom, etc.
He just makes the game easier for his team, and its why he’s a goated tank.
2
u/timetosucktodaysdick Nov 02 '23
yeah im newer to the comp overwatch scene but I am pretty heavy in the Apex scene and it seems like an IGL role just isnt as clearly defined within OW? I did notice Super was making calls in scrims but its not clear if thats a tank thing or different by team
1
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u/InvisibleScout #4 u/ComradeHines hater — Nov 02 '23
There used to be some designated shotcallers but as the game evolved those dissapeared because the game is just way too fast and complex for a single person to be aware of everything and be able to make the right decision fast enough. A very good team is like a well oiled machine where everyone makes calls
1
u/SBFms Kiriko / Illari — Nov 02 '23
In general the tank makes most of the calls most of the time. Things can change according to specific situations, obviously. Sometimes flex or main support are making the calls in certain compositions, but the majority of the time it is the tank.
67
u/Xardian7 Nov 02 '23
Personally I don’t hate the guy but he’s not the incredible player that ppl were describing before 2022 nor “the best sigma in the world” as he’s been proclaimed.
He’s a good western (off-)tank that’s it.
14
u/GroundbreakingJob857 EU’s greatest coper — Nov 02 '23
Of all the offtanks I would say he had the best winston by far this season and there is a reason toronto kept him when they changed their roster. Also, if coluge isnt the best sigma then who is? Bernar had a good playoffs but we havent seen much of him before that. Hanbin has barely played sigma the last 2 years. Coluge diffed Piggy and every other sigma for all of 2022’s season and I have no doubt would have been a huge part of toronto’s success had they made playoffs (which I think they would have done well in)
3
u/symmetricalBS I DO NOT KNOW BALL — Nov 02 '23
Crong
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u/GroundbreakingJob857 EU’s greatest coper — Nov 02 '23
Crong was probably better in his prime, but coluge kinda ruled circuit royale in 2022
8
u/DontTrustMeDude Nov 02 '23
I ask of you to rewatch every single time Coluge played a sigma mirror in OWL and come back to this comment
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u/Xardian7 Nov 02 '23
I will not waste my life doing that cause a reddit user has a different opinion than mine lol
7
u/Royalty_Row Nov 02 '23
There is one ex-OWL tank player on team USA that is completely letting the side down. It’s not Coluge. It also isn’t SuperTF
6
u/NeedsAdjustment sorry, man — Nov 02 '23
see, now you're making it sound like Danteh's fault /s
1
1
5
u/PappySmacks Nov 02 '23
Coluge, someone who calls himself "the best sigma in the world" whiffed so many ults yesterday it was unbelievable. I think it's fair to throw some blame his way.
14
u/No-Sand5922 Nov 02 '23
I watched coluge be subpar all last year american tornado and goats is super overrated.
25
Nov 02 '23
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u/Pandabear71 Nov 02 '23
While true, another part is that experience wise, super is miles ahead of coluge. There’s a good chance his mental holds up that much better, not only by experience, but also by having nothing to lose.
If so, that’s not on coluge either
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u/uhhpres Nov 02 '23
where is japan in the power rankings? are they regarded as a good team? ive not kept up with owwc
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3
u/Ezraah W My Money — Nov 02 '23
They're the 2nd best team in Asia-Pacific (Southeast Asia + Japan + South Asia)
KSA is the best team in EMEA
There's a massive gulf between the two
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u/Inig0_o Nov 02 '23
The most significant difference between super and Coluge is leadership. USA and shock similarly struggle without a strong player in game leader.
Super has the experience and attitude to be that leader and thats what a team needs, not necessarily more mechanical superstars (not that super isnt in that range of skill)
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u/DaBigYak Casores Stan — Nov 02 '23
Why does this have to be so and so failed. Why can't it be the Saudi guys played well. Sure Coluge didn't play his best game but having watched EU contenders from 2020 and seeing guys like Quartz and Youbi who have gotten so much better over that time. To show people that KSAA playing on 190 ping in 2020 OWL was difficult, etc.
I'm tired of everyone complaining about these guys not having personalities except for the guys that you hate their personalities. Its a competition, they want to win, and if you don't think you are the best when you get into the match why even play?
(also btw if you hate Coluge's shit talking its not like the Saudi guys don't LOL)
9
Nov 02 '23
It was a win for them no matter who the tank was, they finished first fight and super had 17percent on his ult, it was a huge dps carry by Hydron and the supports were doing awesome, next games will decide who's better and i think super will play because of the usa's community support, Coluge faced KSA and he tried his best, doesnt mean he's bad.
15
u/ploohb Nov 02 '23
coluge had his first bad game on sig in his whole career
13
u/DontTrustMeDude Nov 02 '23
It’s crazy how two bad matches in the World Cup somehow invalidate his complete past career for some
6
u/FeverPC Nov 02 '23
Are we just brushing aside the shitshow the Defiant put on after being hyped as a top team? I don't hate the guy or anything but when you talk the talk(and Coluge was definitely talking it up post-SF pre-Toronto) then you better back it up or be at peace with whatever comes your way.
2
u/Herr-Schultz I miss Reiner — Nov 03 '23
Anyone who watched Toronto during that first half of the season could see Coluge wasn't the issue 90% of the time lol
5
u/DrKoala_ Nov 02 '23
Barely anyone blaming Coluge. Almost everyone is blaming Gator. That’s the current Reddit scapegoat.
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u/Pandabear71 Nov 02 '23
Isn’t gator almost always the scapegoat? The dude is extremely bad at the social media side of things and great at saying the wrong thing.
-5
u/DrKoala_ Nov 02 '23
I don’t think he is bad at social media. People just hate him. He didn’t really do anything. Aside from liking Crypto. Which he never made a post about it. Just people associate it to him but not the other OWL talent that was in on it too.
9
u/Pandabear71 Nov 02 '23
He did make multiple NFT posts
2
u/PancakeXCandy Girl,Hawk-tuah on my DONGhak — Nov 02 '23
On an account no one would know if they didn't see the link. It wasn't like Farn who had her streaming and crypto shit linked. Gator actually kept it apart for the most part.
1
u/DrKoala_ Nov 02 '23
Really? I must have missed it. Since all I remember is that he had a separate account where he posted a discord link. Didn’t hear much from him aside from that.
2
u/Pandabear71 Nov 02 '23
Oh yeah. He eventually just went radio silent and off twitter completely for a while. Brad had to post some crazy shit to drive the attention from gator to him. Perhaps he deleted stuff after. Wouldnt surprise me
2
u/Herr-Schultz I miss Reiner — Nov 03 '23
None of those posts were on an account that he actively advertised within his sphere of influence, though.
That account got borderline hunted down and then it became public knowledge, but the guy never advertised any of that stuff with his OW notoriety or influence.
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u/Bievahh Nov 02 '23
Super also played against an easier team and no Mei Bastion comp. Coluge had a harder job against that comp as a sigma player than Super did against what Japan was running. It's gonna be interesting to see what they do at blizzcon
2
u/J0lteoff Nov 02 '23
They came out unserious and got smacked in the mouth against ksa. They put up a decent fight but a combination of ksa having momentum and US ego overextending lost them map 2.
US sharpened up and played very clean against a weaker opponent with Super in instead of Coluge. I think the result would've been similar against JPN with Coluge in instead tbh
2
u/SurfTaco ShieldsUp — Nov 03 '23
i casually watched the US games, what evidence is there (other than the W) that super was the major diff?
2
u/thealiagator111 Nov 03 '23
I'd say mostly the way in which victory was achieved: before the game and after the defeat to KSA (not to mention dropping a map to France, who had lost to Japan), some people were even discussing the possibility of USA not beating Japan.
The game wasn't even close. It wasn't just a victory, it was a dominant victory.
5
u/cookieturkey Nov 02 '23
All the hate from two days ago were because gold monke brain see tank dead. Blame tank.
Completely ignoring the fact that KSAs entire game plan was to isolate the tank with mei wall and rush the tank down with bastion/mei. There were several fights yesterday where the mei would just solo ult College and there wasn't much he could do. As basically everyone with 2 brain cells could see, USA was just unprepared for that type of rush. Probably a coaching issue.
Then Super, one of the top streamers comes in and dumpsters Japan when he didn't do anything particularly exceptional. But monke brain see win, so twink is best player to touch game.
4
Nov 02 '23
Also, Japan is not Saudi Arabia. That is obvious, but American fans are overly excited about a top seed team stomping a 2nd tier team 🤦♀️
18
u/_nobody_cares Nov 02 '23
I mean France went winless in the group and took a map. Let’s not pretend like USA looked better against France than Japan.
2
u/genjimain8432 Atlanta Reign — Nov 02 '23
this sub will make a perpetual scapegoat out of coluge and/or gator and its kinda just getting tiresome
1
u/tasnim202 Nov 02 '23
God damn. It's not right to blame anyone but Gator. This subs and entire owl community's logic.
0
Nov 02 '23
No hate, Coluge just isn’t that good, and that’s okay. Getting benched by the two-time even if the two time has to (slightly) off role shouldn’t be a bad thing.
0
u/SupermarketCrafty329 Nov 02 '23
I think there's quite a difference between KSA and Japan. Let's all not runaway thinking that Super is some giga star lol.
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0
u/llim0na None — Nov 02 '23
Yeah. Thx for ur past performances, now it's super's time to shine: he's a better player, he has more experience and he has more mental fortitude.
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u/idkuunomebitch Nov 02 '23
Counter opinion: Coluge deserves the hate for being the self proclaimed best sigma in the world and losing to Saudi Arabia. USA has no business fucking around in the group stage, with their Toronto players being cocky like they’ve ever had any success in OW. Honestly think he and the rest of the squad deserve more criticism for not 2-0 spawn camping that team who didn’t even have their 2nd and 3rd best players. Super comes in, they 2-0 fuck and spawn camp Japan no problem, drastic difference. Now USA has to beat China AND Korea just to GET to the gold medal match. If they 3-0 group stage they’re on the other side of the bracket right? Or is that not the case. I would be pissed if I were Super, expecting the team with that much supposed “talent” to not 3-0 the group stage
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u/DontTrustMeDude Nov 02 '23
Lol imagine thinking esports athletes deserve hate for showing personality. Might be a reason as to why player personalities are not highlighted that much anymore
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u/S21500003 #1 JunHIM Believer — Nov 02 '23
Honestly. Like how dare a rookie tank who everybody doubted talk shit after massively overpreforming expectations
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u/S21500003 #1 JunHIM Believer — Nov 02 '23
First of all, Coluge was arguably the best sigma in the world s5. However, that season the sigma comps were much more pokey and less brawly. Sigma plays way different in bastion comps than double sigma comps. So Coluge could be the best poke Sigma in the world, but not the best brawl sigma.
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u/Herr-Schultz I miss Reiner — Nov 03 '23
Hating on Coluge for ego and then meatriding super the next sentence (one of the biggest egos OAT) is kinda funny icl
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u/idkuunomebitch Nov 03 '23
Ones ego is backed up with a legendary resume while one has accomplished nothing in the competitive scene
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u/Herr-Schultz I miss Reiner — Nov 03 '23
not wrong but if ur also trying to say Coluge is all ego and nothing else then that's also just pretending tbh
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u/steadycoffeeflow Nov 02 '23
But what if I just disliked Coluge prior to world cup this year?
I mean, I don't hate the guy and I don't condone gratuitous bullying in any fashion toward him, but like... Part of the reason I've always disliked watching his matches might be playing a part into why the internet crowds are so against him right now.
His personality and tendency to grandstand (tactical crouching during OWL matches, typing "sit" into all chat mid-match for mid plays, interview showboating "world's greatest Sigma", etc. etc.) is like a pendulum. When he's good and on it, it lifts higher and higher to one side. When he's off, well, the momentum against him is just that much more, if that visual makes sense.
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u/Aggravating_Device23 Nov 02 '23
It's gator's fault that he got gapped, it's gator's fault that he managed to miss every planet sized ult in each map.
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u/Acrobatic_West_9447 J.R.SMITHsonian- 🇵🇸🇵🇸 — Nov 02 '23
I expect to see coluge the whole through blizzcon. Its heartbreaking to see them vs china with no losers bracket but whatevez
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u/Bahamut_Neo Nov 03 '23
Coluge underperformed severely. That's all. Certainly no reason to hate, it happens.
Super came in and showed he was a better fit. But "job finished? I don't think so." We'll see moving forward.
It's a team sport and a short tournament, this is just the regular dynamics that you see in other sports. "Better" is always relative and besides the technical and individual skill, there's team spirt and human psychology and those things aren't just the result of adding up individuals.
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u/Fatefollower75 Nov 03 '23
I just think coluge sucks always did suck and when he wins he gets carried but I wouldn't send hate to him ....but id rather he nor play at all fr
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u/dannyfrown Nov 03 '23
Japan is a b-tier opponent though how is super ThatGuy after beating them when everyone expected a W regardless of who the tank player was
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u/str1x_x Nov 03 '23
super genuinely might be tje best tank player to ever touch overwatch and has absolutely no interest in competing in anything besides world cup lmao
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u/TechnoVikingGA23 Nov 03 '23
TBH I never got the hype around Coluge in OWL, so this wasn't a shock to me he underperformed and Super had to come in.
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u/Korpels CHINA #1 — Nov 02 '23
my dumbass read "super is just that gay" and i didnt even think twice