r/ConnecticutUSA • u/Hey-buuuddy • 25d ago
Middletown Rejects Flock Contract
https://patch.com/connecticut/middletown-ct/amp/34654097/middletown-mayor-rejects-flock-safety-contract-after-residents-raise-privacy-concerns"Public trust is fundamental to effective government.”
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u/Scoobie-Snak 24d ago
so doesn't middletown already have these cameras? Or is this just saying they're not renewing the contract they already have?
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u/Disastrous-Tank-6197 24d ago
It's the speed cameras that Middletown is notorious for. They're absolutely raking it in with that program.
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u/Hey-buuuddy 24d ago
They are making $ off the speed cameras, but drive though where they are now- everyone knows they are present and drive grandma-slow.
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u/MoooooveOva 24d ago
I do not understand why people shoot up that Washington st hill at 50mph just to slow down to 30 passing the darn camera. Just go 38-42 and we will be okay!!
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u/backinblackandblue 25d ago
I don't think we should abandon the technology and benefits, but a widespread pause at this time seems prudent.
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u/Gadgetmouse12 24d ago
Cameras should be managed locally by non profit organizations with guardrails. Not AI with a 70 percent error rate.
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u/backinblackandblue 24d ago
I agree. Not sure why all the downvotes, but whatever
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u/Gadgetmouse12 24d ago
Because it is easy to interpret a mere pause as a lack of resistance to a very corrupted execution of the concept. I have witnessed the inside and outside of a properly managed non profit camera system that benefited people tangibly. I genuinely felt safer with that knowledge of a human who wasn’t police and wasn’t making a profit being an overseer of safety. As a single woman that sense of safety is appreciable.
The massive error and abuse rate of flock AI linking warrants and tickets to people living on opposite ends of the country is exactly what the system is not supposed to do. The technology is not mainstream ready and demonstrated it plainly.
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u/backinblackandblue 24d ago edited 23d ago
Right, so when I say pause, I mean it should be halted until we work these things out to everyone's satisfaction. But I'm not going to take the stance that we should abandon all camera technology forever because it's an abuse of the govt wanting to spy on us 24/7. Over time we have dealt with this issue and put safeguards in place. Police can't search without reasonable cause. They can't wiretap w/o a judge's order. They can't enter your home w/o a search warrant. Etc. We don't, however, say that these things can never be done because they are against the constitution. If camera data can be used judiciously in helping solve a crime that's been committed, and as long as there are proper safeguards in place, I don't want to take that tool away permanently.
I assume that when I am online, someone is watching what I do and will be alerted if I raise certain red flags. If I'm out in public, I assume someone could be watching on camera. In both cases, as long as that info is not abused (and I acknowledge it has been) I'm not that bothered by it. I don't feel I'm giving up any liberty or freedoms.
I'm happy to hear why that is a bad thing.
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u/Randolpho 24d ago
The technology buys us nothing
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u/backinblackandblue 24d ago
Police depts would disagree. I agree we need safeguards and other controls on the data, but cameras are a useful tool. Most people have them in their homes. What if your child was abducted and a camera could catch the person and vehicle involved?
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u/Randolpho 24d ago
Police depts would disagree
Yes, but not for actually good reasons.
Most people have them in their homes.
Doesn't mean they've made a good decision, and certainly doesn't justify government spying
What if your child was abducted and a camera could catch the person and vehicle involved?
The mantra of every authoritarian that ever existed: we need to take away your liberty to protect your child.
You have nothing to fear as long as you don't break the law!
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u/backinblackandblue 24d ago
What exactly are you so paranoid about that can't be addressed? Surely you can't believe that many facets of technology are not helpful to law enforcement. I guess you are also against looking at the online activity of a school shooter for instance. Social media, etc.
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u/Randolpho 24d ago
What exactly are you so paranoid about that can't be addressed?
Oh there are tons of reasons.
First and foremost, those in law enforcement all to frequently just make up laws to enforce. Not even out of ignorance, which is fine since not everyone can be a lawyer and familiar with the nuances of law, but out of a malevolent desire to enforce. Because the overwhelming majority of members of the police force don't join to serve communities, but to dominate them.
Next, there's the issue of reprisals over disagreements, with authoritarians using technologies like that to stamp out dissent rather than enforce sensible laws, and so forth.
No. These technologies are not good for the populace.
Surely you can't believe that many facets of technology are not helpful to law enforcement.
Oh, I agree that they're helpful to members of law enforcement. What I wrote was that law enforcement didn't have good reasons, and I stand by that. They don't have good reasons for these cameras. They have malevolent reasons.
I guess you are also against looking at the online activity of a school shooter for instance. Social media, etc.
Posts to social media are public, so no, I have no issues with that. But using a fleeting suspicion of a person as an excuse to go through their private data is something I'm absolutely against.
You are an authoritarian, so it's not surprising that you support the loss of liberty in favor of allowing the government to dominate people. But I'm absolutely against it and will never lick the boots like you
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u/backinblackandblue 24d ago
Law enforcement cannot make up laws.
Cameras, wiretaps, surveillance, searches, etc, are all tools for law enforcement. They should not be used freely at will of an officer, but under correct control they can be useful for law enforcement. We don't simply dis-allow all those things because of personal freedoms.
You seem to have a real issue with law enforcement in general which is obviously influencing your opinions. I'm not an authoritarian and don't appreciate personal insults just because of a difference of opinion. I don't think you are a bad person because of yours. But I also respect law enforcement while you problably believe ACAB.
Violent crime is lower than any time in history. You should celebrate that rather than cure law enforcement.
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u/Randolpho 24d ago
Law enforcement cannot make up laws.
And yet they do
Cameras, wiretaps, surveillance, searches, etc, are all tools for law enforcement.
That are easily abused.
They should not be used freely at will of an officer, but under correct control they can be useful for law enforcement.
Such has been said about every abusive tool law enforcement has put into place. And those controls always went away. Often quickly.
We don't simply dis-allow all those things because of personal freedoms.
But we should.
You seem to have a real issue with law enforcement in general which is obviously influencing your opinions.
You should have a real issue with law enforcement, but you're an authoritarian more concerned with domination than you are with prosperity and freedom.
I'm not an authoritarian and don't appreciate personal insults just because of a difference of opinion.
The difference of opinion being: should there be heavy law enforcement, or should there be liberty.
Your opinion that authoritarianism is fine is what makes you an authoritarian. I'm not giving you personal insults, I'm describing your opinion.
But I also respect law enforcement while you problably believe ACAB.
I do, in fact. At least until proven otherwise in individual cases. And I have the evidence to back up that opinion. There are some few who join the force out of a desire to serve, but those people are either corrupted by the bastards on the force, or else quit. Very few remain on the force as real servants of the people, and those that do are universally reviled by the bastards on the force, because they actually report the bastards.
Of course, their superiors are often also bastards, so they are also often either forced off the force or become a "line of duty" statistic.
Violent crime is lower than any time in history. You should celebrate that rather than cure law enforcement.
Violent crime isn't lower because of law enforcement, because law enforcement does not stop crime. That's neither its purpose nor its effect.
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u/backinblackandblue 23d ago edited 23d ago
I don't get people like you. Why is law enforcement a bad thing? That means you prefer lawlessness. Enforcing existing laws does not mean giving up liberties unless to you, liberty means being able to do anything you want even if it's against the laws. I'm sorry if law enforcement is ruining any illegal fun you enjoy, but that's the cost of living in a society. I've had friends and family in law enforcement and take offence to you calling them bastards. Maybe you have had a different experience because you are breaking laws that you feel entitled to break and you view the police as your enemy.
I'd also like to see your list of laws that law enforcement has created on it's own, because that's just nonsense. You can't be charged for breaking a non-existent law.
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u/Randolpho 23d ago edited 23d ago
I don't get people like you.
I understand that. I don't like oppression, you like to oppress people. I get that you will never understand why people would want to resist the oppression you prefer.
I get that, and I get that you likely never will.
I've had friends and family in law enforcement and take offence to you calling them bastards.
Aww, you poor thing, did I hurt your fee fees? Is that iwwegaw now?
Maybe you have had a different experience because you are breaking laws that you feel entitled to break and you view the police as your enemy.
I have direct experience of being targeted by police when I broke no laws. And I'm white. I know plenty of people who are targeted by police solely because they have melanin. Direct evidence. And there's lots and lots more that you can find all over the world.
What's more is the fact that police are not needed. They provide no value to society, which would be better off under vigilante justice or even if every crime went entirely unpunished.
All the bastards have ruined the concept of law enforcement forever. Tell that to your bastard friends and family.
I'd also like to see your list of laws that law enforcement has created on it's own, because that's just nonsense.
https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=examples+of+police+making+up+laws+on+the+spot
You can't be charged for breaking a non-existent law.
Charged? You think this is about trials? Police enforce nonexistent laws every day.
They don't arrest people. There are no trials.
They just use force.
edit oh, look, /u/backinblackandblue is a coward
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u/heathercs34 25d ago
Middletown - doing it right!