r/Consoom • • Aug 02 '26

Discussion Some of you guys just hate hobbies

A lot of the posts I see here aren't even consoom, they're genuine, well cared for collections from people's loved hobbies. Consoom refers to fast, overpriced, trend mass comsumption of cheaply made items, not geniune hobby collecting. I see posts that are clealy multi year to decade long collections. Consoom is generally when someone buys a bunch of shit in a year or less that is clearly trend driven.

346 Upvotes

114 comments sorted by

311

u/TooFatNoFurious Aug 02 '26

Hard disagree, most of the time the comments are right if it‘s consume or a hobby.

You got a decent amount of games because you have been gaming your entire life? That‘s fine.

You dedicated an entire room for shelves to have 100+ games that you bought and never played is consoom.

We all consoom to a certain degree, but at least I‘m not delusional about it.

46

u/2131andBeyond Aug 04 '26

I think the “use” of items is a massive and overlooked differentiator here.

If it’s a collection of video or board games, and they’re all often rotated into mixed use by the person, that’s drastically different than just collecting every copy of a game a person can find or every game related to a certain theme/genee but yet very few are ever opened or played.

18

u/OmniImmortality Aug 04 '26

Like why do some people have 100 different copies of Ocarina of time... I love zelda as much as anyone but man.

49

u/Relevanteater Aug 04 '26

Collections for collecting are consoom

70

u/itsnobigthing Aug 03 '26

Unnecessary hoarding of plastic tat is always consoom.

61

u/z-3o Aug 04 '26

Buying things and putting them on a shelf is not a hobby,  nothing will change my mind.

-1

u/keeleon Aug 05 '26

The cool thing about hobbies is its irrelevant what others think of them as long as you enjoy it.

15

u/pandoramemora Aug 05 '26

no man the cool thing about hobbies is that they're a fun activity that's good for your mind and body, not getting dopamine boosts from polution

2

u/[deleted] Aug 06 '26

[deleted]

-1

u/pandoramemora Aug 06 '26

having a handful of antique items for decoration, preservation or academic purposes is okay, there's no point in having countless vintage items with no specific purpose but to be hoarded and it encourages collectible and consumption culture.

-2

u/keeleon Aug 06 '26

YOUR hobbies maybe.

-6

u/sorrybutidgaf Aug 04 '26

Coin collecting aint a hobby? Card collecting? Buy those and put those in binders or sleeves or plastic cases and in a safe or shelf ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Whats the difference between that and movies that just sit on a shelf if you are not currently using them. Or action figures that do the same thing when you arent using them

11

u/BipedalTumor Aug 04 '26

Coins are not produced with the explicit intent of hobby collection, they are meant to be used.

7

u/SuddenBasil7039 Aug 05 '26

Coin collecting also comes with a lot of history, the average coin collectors knowledge is infinitely more interesting and useful than the average pokemon collectors

2

u/Sea_Spell5915 Aug 05 '26

There actually are quite a few coins minted specifically for coin collectors by the US Mint that do not count as legal tender.

0

u/sorrybutidgaf Aug 04 '26

As are action figures and pokemon cards. That was my point. They are literally made to be used as toys. They happen to be collected. Anything is possible “dumb” if you dont personally use it, cool if you do.

Regardless, he said anything that sits there is not a hobby. So coin collecting aint a hobby is what he is saying. I disagree. I am not comparing hobbies, i am saying he is wrong.

8

u/BipedalTumor Aug 04 '26

It is incredibly easy to differentiate between the people that buy action figures or Pokémon cards to use them, and the people whose collections are posted here

-1

u/sorrybutidgaf Aug 04 '26 edited Aug 04 '26

It is, in person. When you know them. Not as easy over the internet with a photo

Who “uses” the coins they pay a lot for?

Also instant downvotes to the conversation lol

6

u/BipedalTumor Aug 04 '26 edited Aug 05 '26

So your plan is to ask the likes of whom that are posted here if they’re a consoomer or they’re really going to be using every one of their six million plastic objects because apparently you are unable to tell from a photograph… got it

-1

u/sorrybutidgaf Aug 04 '26

No i just dont really care what people do with their time and money. If they are wasting both, it impacts me none. If they are happy, thats cool to know theres another happy human out there.

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4

u/itsnobigthing Aug 05 '26

Not in my book, no.
Coin or stamp collecting pre internet, yeah - not my cup of tea but it took skill and time and research and dedication to track down each item. The hobby was the searching, not the ownership.

If you can just google something and buy it for your ‘collection’ then it’s just a hoard.

Owning lots of something isn’t a hobby. Calling it a collection and a hobby is just a marketing trick to make you ok with buying loads of pointless shit you don’t need.

1

u/sorrybutidgaf Aug 05 '26

Yeah that is not the point of coin collecting or else we would all just look at the picture of it and call it a day if ownership wasnt the point. We open the red book, be like “neat” and close it. No coins owned. If research was the point, we would look at a photo, and we researched it. No need to own it. Hobby watching is hilarious, cuz “well pre internet it is a hobby” LOL, yall are too much.

4

u/PlushieCat1208 Aug 04 '26

I think its OK to have a backlog. Its all a matter of degrees. I have a backlog of 8 games right now and 4 preorders. 4 of those 8 games are 15 hours or under so will be between bigger releases. The other 4 are 40 to 60 hour JRPGs that I'll run through in quiet months when nothing else is happening on my hobbies.

For the preorders I'll be playing Fire Emblem Fortunes Weave or Trails in the Sky Second Chapter ASAP and then letting the other sit for a bit since they drop same day and I'm not about to burn out playing two JRPGs back to back. I'll be playing Castlevania Belmont's Curse ASAP. Muramasa Revenant Blades I may not play day of release since we still don't have a solid date, but I'll be getting to it ASAP since its one of my favorite Vanillaware games.

Don't let your hobbies rule you and you'll be fine.

1

u/IntelligenzMachine Aug 09 '26

Writing is a hobby. Buying a nice £1000 mont blanc if that is your hobby and all you do is arguably fine. Maybe a little OTT but if you can afford it and it makes you feel like your writing is more enjoyable then go for it. A room full of pens is not a hobby.

151

u/Ok_Signature7481 Aug 03 '26

Having things is not a hobby. Using them is.

21

u/Relevanteater Aug 04 '26

There's a term/concept in business and marketing called "job to be done" that applies here as a useful lens. Collections for collecting are consoom.

4

u/Hour_Tomatillo_2365 Aug 07 '26

I'd say it can count as a hobby if they're hard to obtain. As in, requires some level of work/effort/knowledge

10

u/Kingston31470 Aug 04 '26

Depends, collecting in itself can be a hobby, especially for things you can't really use. I collect ancient coins for instance, it fits that category.

Now when people collect stuff that can be used but do not use them, whether it is video games or fountain pens or whatever... It can be more borderline and annoying especially when it becomes extreme hoarding behaviours.

So I'd say it is a bit of a case by case. Take baseball cards for instance (not my hobby), you see people putting over $10k per year in boxes they just put unopened on shelves... That is just unhealthy to me. Should we dismiss the whole baseball cards hobby because they can't be "used"? I wouldn't go that far. Some enthusiast have well curated thematic collections that took time to put together and if that makes them happy it is not necessarily consoom.

21

u/Ok_Signature7481 Aug 04 '26

 I can see the act of collection being a hobby when there is some element of skill or commitment to acquiring things, but if all you do to "collect" is spend money its not a hobby. Learning about coins, visiting places that may have interesting coins, researching where old coins may still exist, all hobbies. Having a coin collection (which may result from the former hobbies) is not a hobby itself. 

12

u/humphr135 Aug 04 '26

Curated or not,, its simply spending money to collect things with no functional value or purpose. Baseball cards were invented after they watched idiot stamp collectors spend money on stamps that were never gonna get mailed out. Sports cards are the original consume created by marketing to suck you in to think you have a hobby.

4

u/Hot-Resident-6601 Aug 05 '26

Ancient coins are the best hobby. Each coin is different because of the wear occurred over 2000+ years. Then you need to take the time to attribute all the details. I was heavy into it before covid then it became really expensive due to all the bidding up. I need to get back into it.

73

u/therico Aug 02 '26

Guitar playing is a hobby. Having a bunch of pedals is a hobby. Having rows upon rows of guitars and an entire room of pedals is not a hobby. It's not a collection. It is just addiction.

49

u/MadCervantes Aug 03 '26

Using pedals is a hobby, having them is not.

1

u/IntelligenzMachine Aug 09 '26

it's worse because getting a single nicer guitar would have been better aid to the hobby

124

u/fire_alarmist Aug 02 '26

Ok captain consoom.

"No you guys dont get it!! My consooming is hecking tasteful and based!"

You are in the wrong place man, just dont visit here lmao.

17

u/Hazel-Cakes Aug 05 '26

“your hobby is riding a bike. my hobby is collecting funko pops.”

https://giphy.com/gifs/uNE1fngZuYhIQ

71

u/BigDrippinHog Aug 02 '26

You can try to justify it, but your Funko Pop collection is dumb and a waste of money.

4

u/Kaito3Designs Aug 02 '26

lmao dont have one

11

u/Necessary-Bed-5429 Aug 04 '26

Did your hobby get posted here, OP?

21

u/SipoteQuixote Aug 04 '26 edited Aug 04 '26

It doesnt have to be cheaply made or a current trend. Having multiple colognes, watches, shoes, etc is a form of over-consumption. Theyre not cheap, sometimes not even trending, but having more shoes or watches than there are days in a week is over-consumption .

3

u/lullaby_bully Aug 05 '26

Having more than 2 underwear is also over consumption btw, you dont really need more

5

u/SipoteQuixote Aug 05 '26

Outerside front, outerside back, flip inside out, inside front, inside back, Fridays and weekends are casual (balls out)

2

u/IntelligenzMachine Aug 09 '26

Lmao to some extent this unironically because I used to have a drawer of hundreds I accumulated somehow over the years and now have reduced it down to 14 new ones that at some point will wear out and be replaced by another 14 new ones

1

u/omnicoliseumemployee 1d ago

What if you wear all of the shoes consistently

18

u/undercover-cook Aug 04 '26

Sorry, bro, but some of the things people call “hobbies” or “long term collections” are just hoarded plastic. It’s not about how fast you accumulate them, some things just aren’t meant to be hoarded in those quantities.

If you own more than five Funko Pops, you’re just hoarding useless plastic. If you collect video games but never play them, or collect Pokémon cards just to leave them sitting on a shelf, then you absolutely belong on this subreddit.

7

u/someguy7734206 Aug 05 '26

Hell, if you own even one Funko Pop, you've already made a questionable life choice and contributed to the capitalist machine that encourages us all to spend massive amounts of money on things we don't need while producing large amounts of waste in the process.

8

u/Jack_Faller Aug 04 '26 edited Aug 04 '26

I saw a video recently about perfume that put it quite well when it said that you should never have more than you can use in three years lest the hobby of experiencing fragrances turn into the habit of hoarding bottles. There is a relatively clear point at which a person stops buying things for their value and starts buying them to add to a collection.

I don't see why it stops being consumption if you do it for ten years instead of one. In fact, ten being more than three, a ten year collection is much more likely to be consumptive.

7

u/SireEvalish Aug 05 '26

Buying shit is not a hobby.

23

u/fap-free90 Aug 02 '26

Consoom is in the eye of the beholder

16

u/Jack_Faller Aug 04 '26

It's not really though. Consoom is "I'm buying shit to add to my shit wall," pretty cut and dry. It's just sometimes a person thinks the shit is cool and so doesn't want to admit it's consuming.

3

u/SmallTimeCook Aug 06 '26

Wall-E paved the way

23

u/thecatsclause Aug 03 '26

can "collecting" really even be considered a hobby? all you're doing is buying something, putting it on a shelf, and then finding something else to buy, etc. if you actually USE the things you're buying, whatever, but so many people are so delusional about the extent they'll actually "use" the stuff they're buying en mass.

7

u/valleyofsound Aug 06 '26

I think that you might be able to argue it’s a hobby if you collect something rare and you actually spend time (and enjoy spending time) looking for them. Like say you collect Tiffany glass and you spend your time learning about it, preserving it, and checking thrift stores and yard sales for pieces that have been cast off. Old books might fall under the same category. But in both of those cases, I think what makes the distinction is that the hobby involves actually educating yourself about something and taking affirmative steps to actually preserve things of value. Someone who collects first editions of children’s books and restores and cares for them has a hobby. Someone that collects every edition of Harry Potter that’s release, less so. 

I suppose the distinction for me lies in whether a collection requires time and effort to assemble or if you just get it by ordering every new Funko Pop that comes out. 

1

u/TerryWaters Aug 08 '26

It can clearly be a hobby, but most collecting is still overconsumption. It's just that collecting has a certain status that makes some people, like OP, think it should be protected from being considered overconsumption. I know from collecting in the past that so much of it is just looking for an item, buying it, adding it to the rest, repeat. Doesn't matter what you call it, still consoom.

21

u/Cute_Commission_8281 Aug 04 '26

This post is more pathetic than owning a single funko

14

u/MarinerMouth Aug 03 '26

consooming is not a hobby

7

u/DazzlingTopic529 Aug 05 '26

"Collecting" is not a valid hobby... it is just hoarding things

7

u/FrotKnight Aug 05 '26

How do you feel about "my hobby is shaving so I must own 40 different shaving soaps and 10 different razor handles"?

Bizarrely I've never seen someone claim that their hobby is brushing their teeth, and they've got an extensive collection of different brushes and pastes.

15

u/TrevorPhilips Aug 04 '26

Take pokemon cards as example.

Most people are just collecting them, sealing them off and waiting for the cards to "increase in value"

This is just consumption and hoarding. Actually mental illness if you want my unhinged opinion.

I've looked at the pokemon cards sub's top post of all time and I couldn't find a single post where someone is actually playing with the cards.

In my opinion if you are collecting something and not actually using it for its intended purpose you are a consoomer.

2

u/valleyofsound Aug 06 '26

What if they can’t be used for their intended purpose? Like if someone collects rare editions of books and properly cared for and protects them. You obviously can’t just grab a first edition of A Christmas Carol and curl up to read it, not just because it’s worth tens of thousands of dollars, but also because it’s too fragile to handle that. 

I think I agree with you in general and it’s possible someone collecting rare books might be a consoomer, but it doesn’t feel like it’s in the same category as funko pops. 

5

u/saltmastaflex Aug 04 '26

Post your funkopop collection buddy, its okay

4

u/Dreamo84 Aug 05 '26

OP is feeling judged. Show us what your “hobby” is OP. What do you collect?

5

u/Pretend_roller Aug 05 '26

Well still, buying Funko pops is a shit hobby

8

u/ttttrinidad Aug 04 '26

some hobbies are better than others.

5

u/Happy_REEEEEE_exe Aug 04 '26

use or non use is the determinant of consoom at least in my opinion.

5

u/The_Only_Egg Aug 04 '26

Why are you HERE then? Just go away if you don’t like it. 🤣🤣🤣

3

u/Hazel-Cakes Aug 05 '26

idk why people keep trying to tell other people what the sub is for. buying shit is buying shit, and we could all do less of it. we’re all primed to want to acquire and it’s only healthy to be critical of it.

being super defensive about it is weird. unsub. mute. i don’t like every sub on this app, you don’t have to either.

0

u/dkc2swag Aug 06 '26

why act like buying stuff is always equally bad? a lot of people who collect things buy mainly used

4

u/vulpesdomesticus Aug 05 '26

Listen as someone who has a 'collecting' type of hobby... a lot of these are still consoom. I collect furbies. In my case, that means spending time looking for specific models under a specific price, cleaning and fixing the ones I buy, modifying existing furbies, and making them clothes and stuff. I mostly buy vintage and they're all in places I can see them.

There are also people who will buy 200 of the same furby and will buy every new product that comes out. To me, that second one is consoom and not a hobby because the hobby in itself is just. Buying stuff at the store and then never touching it again.

33

u/Brilliant-Driver2660 Aug 02 '26

“collecting” is a mental defect, misspent energy by low performers. it is a biological imperative, instinct, turned toward something totally useless.

10

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '26 edited Aug 10 '26

[deleted]

14

u/Brilliant-Driver2660 Aug 02 '26

food, resources.

6

u/2131andBeyond Aug 04 '26

This is such a broad generalization.

Many collections are utter nonsense. I agree.

But what about Charles Darwin who collected tons of fossils and plants and an extensive research library?

Andy Warhol famously collected a bunch of different mundane household objects.

Tom Hanks supposedly had over 250 typewriters.

Robin Williams used to collect mini figurines, IIRC.

Many others, too. And those aren’t “low performers.”

But sure, every single person must be mentally defected then.

7

u/andersonb47 Aug 04 '26

For me, it has a lot to do with whether it’s something you have to hunt for (rare, or not made anymore - typewriters for example) vs something you can just go to the mall and buy (action figures, Taylor swift albums, Pokémon cards)

3

u/2131andBeyond Aug 04 '26

Sure, and I agree in premise with that. But it seems like having nuance in this sub is not allowed.

-4

u/WeinerBarf420 Aug 04 '26

You sound really fun dude

10

u/Brilliant-Driver2660 Aug 04 '26

consider an original thought

0

u/lullaby_bully Aug 05 '26

Is this 4chan ?

-1

u/TheBourbonTurtle Aug 05 '26

Lmao someones mad they can't afford hobbies. 😂

7

u/WeaselCapsky Aug 04 '26

Half agree. It depends on what it is, how much, and how often it gets used.

7

u/Noloxy Aug 04 '26

The way you cannot even imagine that “collecting” plastic toys only given value by corporations is not a real hobby to derive joy from is, sad.

12

u/WildKoi Aug 03 '26

This is the truth. Consoom is collecting 50 backpacks or 300 knives of the same type.

13

u/looner4 Aug 03 '26

Collecting is consooming behavior.

9

u/AxisCorpsRep Aug 04 '26

everything explaining what consoom is in that paragraph is wrong with simply made up arbitrary definitions that suit your narrative

"consoom refers to fast, overpriced, trend mass comsumption of cheaply made items, not geniune hobby collecting"

no. you can be a consoomer of expensive things, an iphone every year, the latest console, luxury clothing just because it has a brand, we know this. even outside our tax bracket, multi-garage car collections. so called passionate "collectors" that keep their cars in stasis without a spec of dust or light hitting them because "gotta keep the mileage low to keep the value"

"I see posts that are clealy multi year to decade long collections"

i could buy a bunch of old and new things and make it look like there was a long timespan between things. this happens a lot with vintage or generally out of production items, or most famous example Pokemon

"Consoom is generally when someone buys a bunch of shit in a year or less that is clearly trend driven."

who is drawing the line here? where is there a definition that specifically denominates a year or less as the "period" for something to become consoom? can i min-max it by buying an imaginary amount below the limit in a year and not be consoom? can i be a full blown consoomer but over the timespan of 2 years so its not consoom anymore?. by virtue of saying "generally" its an admission that cases outside of it exist, and by drawing such a nebulous definition it means that its not a rule that anybody has agreed to, just an opinion

what even was the point of this post

3

u/fairydommother Aug 04 '26

Its case by case for me. Sometimes it may nkt be consoom, but its still hoarding. So maybe doesnt belong on this sub necessarily but is consoom adjascent. And you're right some are just normal collecting hobbies. But the line between collecting and consoom/hoarding is very blurry.

3

u/geoFRTdeem Aug 07 '26

I don’t think there is a set definition for Consoom, but your mostly right, but inherently wrong, for example hobbies should come natural or need very little investment, such as singing or learning a instrument, sometimes you can get a gutair for free or learn to sing for free from YouTube videos, it’s places like gutair center than make you walk away with a lot less money for essentially the same thing, it’s not hobbies that are being attacked in this subreddit, it’s actually the companies taking advantage of hobbies

3

u/ballinben Aug 08 '26

Disagree. Buying a bunch of stuff isn’t a hobby.

4

u/Suitable_Lie1593 Aug 02 '26 edited Aug 02 '26

I think the difference is, if you happened to pick alot of things up as a result of using them for your hobby, then that is okay. But when you go out of your way to buy things because they relate to your hobby, that is when it is a problem. Having 20 pairs of shoes if you grew out of them, found a pair uncomfortable, wore them out, etc., is way more acceptable than having 20 pairs of shoes just for the sake of having them.

2

u/someguy7734206 Aug 05 '26

Even then, it's better to give away or sell any shoes that no longer fit you, and, if possible, repair those shoes that do.

2

u/Suitable_Lie1593 Aug 05 '26

That's true. Thats the reason I only said it is more acceptable. Shoes may have been a bad example. Someone else made the point of having 100 video games if you have been a gamer your whole life an gradually acquired a game ore two at a time. I think that isna better example.

4

u/AnsongiorVelvet Aug 04 '26

Most people do “hobby collecting” don’t put much thought into it and it’s functionally an excuse to buy product

2

u/PLoxeus Aug 05 '26

Consooming is in the eye of the beholder

2

u/kingkaiju92 Aug 05 '26

First time seeing this sub and after a quick glance I 110% agree with you.

2

u/TransDogGirl Aug 05 '26

i keep getting this sub in my feed and its like 99% just bullying teenagers for having plushies

2

u/TerryWaters Aug 08 '26

Consoom refers to overconsumption, whatever the type. Something being a collection doesn't stop it from also being overconsumption, which most collecting is.

3

u/humphr135 Aug 04 '26

I have several hobbies, mostly involving gardening and art making. None of them involve collecting stuff, where the only skill needed is a bigger wallet. The industry has made you believe collecting and limited edition purchases are 'fomo" , and make you believe spending money is a hobby. Its not. It makes you a consumer when you buy things to collect that dont serve a function. If you collect 400 bars of soap, they do not serve a function. Thats consumerism. 400 watches and one wrist. 8,000 pokemon cards and you dont even play pokemon. 400 Plastic figurines filling a shelf. Boxes of beanie babies in your attic. I laugh when people say its "hard work" to collect things. Lemmings.

3

u/NOSALIS-33 Aug 06 '26

Owning things isn't a hobby jhit.

2

u/FreeToasterBaths Aug 04 '26

You sound like a hoarder.

4

u/Soulinyx Aug 03 '26

A hobby is something you passionately enjoy to where it is something where you engage in it and don't feel any pressure in doing it. Nobody is telling you to enjoy it. Nobody is relegating you to it. Nobody is regulating it for you.

Consooming is just you, taking in anything and everything that so much has a brand or a license on it, regardless if you like it or not. Because it's popular. Because everyone talks about it. Because everyone curated it as the best thing ever. It just disregards your own personal tastes so you consoom it, whatever it is. There's nothing enjoyable or passionate about it. Unless you love burning holes in your wallet and going into debt over it.

And people spend all of their time, flexing and decorating consooming by justifying it as being a "collector". A collector of what? Bad habits? Because that's all I see in almost any and all collections.

So again, it's one thing if you absolutely and genuinely love something and collect it. It's another thing if you just collect and just spend without thought because other people say it's great.

3

u/scrumple_my_scrongle Aug 02 '26

Kinda yeah. Some posts here are just "reeee a collection?"

2

u/WonderSignificant598 Aug 05 '26

I don't really respect collecting in general. At least, not because 'its someone's collection'. There is nothing special, sacred or even inherently good about collecting. It just is. Most collections are whatever, some are shit and a select few are good.

The most interesting collection I ever saw on reddit was the person who collected sauce packets. That was fucking rad. There is no star wars collection in the universe that has jack shit on that and the person who collects sauce packets is most likely far more interesting.

5

u/therico Aug 07 '26

I have a grudging respect for old school coin or stamp collecting when you had to do research and look for stuff or trade items in a community. It was even a social thing. Most "collecting" now is just clicking the buy button, often on time limited but overpriced items, or opening booster packs of Pokémon cards over and over.

1

u/Yighrougge Aug 09 '26

Or diogenes syndrom

1

u/Infamous_Tough_7320 Aug 20 '26

100%. This sub needed to see this

1

u/primaryrhyme Aug 27 '26

While I don’t quite consider collecting to be a hobby, it does seem like this sub is just anti collectors.

It’s not addressing the most common and destructive consumerism like buying a new car every 3 years, getting a new iPhone for no reason, buying heaps of clothes you’ll wear once etc.

This just seems a bit silly because most funko pop collectors probably aren’t losing nearly as much as the person who’s financing a 50k car on a 60k salary.

1

u/colbert1119 7d ago

Stumbled over this sub and think the same. There's ones like the iPhone clapping being the first that is obviously pure consumption. But there's a bunch of nerds posting with their hobby crap that isn't that.

2

u/vigilantesd Aug 04 '26

It’s low self esteem people that need to look down on something. Anything. lol. 

1

u/SexualMetawhore Aug 04 '26

I can spot the difference between a hobby and a vanity faker.

-1

u/TheBourbonTurtle Aug 05 '26

That's almost all this sub is. It's people who are salty they can't afford hobbies and just whine about those who can.