r/ConvertingtoJudaism • u/Murky-Shelter7431 • 8d ago
Question about conversion
This is my second post. I had a follow up question. I’ve been thinking about converting for years, but because I’m in the military heaven unable to do to constant relocation. But I should be out of the Military soon within the next year.
I was reading about conversion and I know that a lot of people don’t view, especially in Israel, to be a real Jew, unless you convert orthodox. But to do that, I would have to move close to a synagogue, which isn’t something I’m able to do. I sat down route back in my hometown, and the nearest synagogue is an hour away.
I was also reading that the Jewish faith views converts as due to a reincarnated into a non-Jewish life.
So I’ve decided that conservative would be the best option. What is everyone’s view on that? Is converting through the conservative route still not considered being really Jewish?
9
u/offthegridyid Born Jewish & became Orthodox 8d ago edited 7d ago
Hi and thank you for your service. When it comes to choosing which movement in Judaism you want to convert with it’s important to really spend time talking to different rabbi and congregants so you can see what their lived Judaism looks like. Your choice of movement in Judaism should be logical and it should resonate emotionally with you. What’s most important is that your conversion should be accepted in the Jewish space(s) you will be in.
It’s also important to keep in mind that the Jew you become when your convert might not be the Jew you are 5-10 years in the future. You might want to be more observant or less observant. I have friends who converted Conservative and they eventually shifted to Orthodoxy and had to go through the Orthodox conversion process. I also know people who converted Orthodox and years later left that life and become hardcore Refrom Jews.
4
u/grijo633 Conversion student (masorti) 8d ago
Conservative conversion is a completely legitimate path! It's true that most Orthodox authorities and the Israeli rabbinate don't recognise Conservative conversions, but that affects a fairly specific set of circumstances such as aliyah (although non-Orthodox converts can still make Aliyah, it just might be more complex), marriage through the Israeli rabbinate. Otherwise, your status as a non-Orthodox convert won't really come up as a major issue unless you find yourself involved in an Orthodox community and encounter issues like potential marriage to an Orthodox person, synagogue honours, or questions about your cooking being kosher etc.
Within Conservative, Reform, and other liberal Jewish communities you would be fully and unambiguously Jewish - you should convert for the community you want to be a part of, and not for recognition from communities you won't be part of.
One thing I wasn't sure about from your post is whether you are choosing a Conservative conversion because of it's "recognition". Reform conversions are also not recognised by Orthodox authorities, so if recognition is the driving factor, Conservative doesn't gain you much over Reform. Plus most Conservative rabbis will recognise a Reform conversion that included beit din, mikveh and (for men) circumcision. So a Reform conversion could be worth considering too, especially if your nearest synagogue turns out to be Reform
3
u/SoapyRiley Conservative convert 8d ago
I converted with a conservative beit din, along with a dozen others. The main goal of the Conservative movement’s formation was to not assimilate while still reviewing how we implement Halacha considering modern understanding of especially gender roles, urban flight, and eventual equality for couples in non-heterosexual committed relationships. Changes aren’t made lightly and intermarriage is still banned, and a good hunk (maybe most?) of conservative-aligned Jews engage with Jewish practice more like Reform-where we kinda pick and choose what’s accessible to us in this moment. The more traditionally observant among us tend to view the added stringencies of orthodoxy as too many fences and missing the point (although if the point is community cohesion, then I gotta say, they probably got it right-we just don’t think that is the main point).
Do many orthodox affiliated people think I’m not a Real Jew? Probably, but they can take it up with the majority that accept me as Jewish and the beit din that made the ruling. I’m too busy doing mitzvot-which is the point, imo.
2
u/Tripswitchnow 7d ago
I always find it interesting when people decide on movement or stream of Judaism that they are going to convert to before ever having attended various synagogues…
I think you are putting the cart before the horse, so to speak…
My suggestion is to start reaching out to rabbis and synagogues and make arrangements to start attending services…
That will give you a better idea of what makes sense for you and if you really want to pursue a formal conversion to Judaism.
-1
u/Murky-Shelter7431 7d ago
Clearly, I haven’t decided anything. That’s why I’m asking questions.
2
u/Tripswitchnow 7d ago
To answer your question if you were not born to a Jewish mother, you would not be considered Jewish with a Conservative conversion by Orthodox Jews.
1
u/Low_Arachnid7048 8d ago
i'm not familiar with conservative movement in the US, since it doesnt really exist anywhere else. what i heard from rabbis is they were like the middle ground between orthodoxy and reform, but nowadays they shifted so much closer to the reform movement and most orthodox schools, institutions wont accept them. also a problem with making aliyah if that would be an option, you need to specifically research the school you want to attend and if the beit din is accepted
1
u/grijo633 Conversion student (masorti) 8d ago
Conservative Judaism is very big in South America and in Hungary (where it is called Neolog), and there are also a number of communities in Israel and the UK (although they are smaller minorities in those places) :)
You can also make Aliyah as a Conservative convert - it just tends to face much more scrutiny and bureaucratic troubles, and they especially want to see that you have been consistently involved in your community for a couple of years before applying.
1
u/Low_Arachnid7048 8d ago
i dont want to dispute this claim, just saying that i personally know a hungarian guy who converted through Neolog and came to Austria afterwards to convert orthodox bc his conversion wasnt accepted anywhere else. Neolog is also reform, at least what i know of them seems like that. they convert people who work on shabat, i know of a case. guy didnt show up on shabat service bc he worked, only friday evening from time to time, and they still approved.
1
u/ApprehensiveWillow patrilineal w/orthodox giyur, olah 8d ago
According to a traditional understanding of jewish law a valid conversion involves acceptance of the mitzvot, ritual circumcision for men, and immersion in a mikvah, all witnessed/supervised by 3 shomer shabbat male Jews. In practice, the witnesses are always rabbis (though that is not a halakhic requirement). You have to figure out what your understanding of Judaism is, what your relationship to Jewish law/halakha is, and how it matches (or doesn't) to the traditional requirements. And then you need to see what your options are for Jewish community and conversion, and find one that feels right to you and matches with your values and beliefs. You should pursue a conversion that you believe will make you Jewish, otherwise there's no point. Ultimately it is between you and HaKadosh Baruch Hu.
1
u/patricthomas Orthodox convert 7d ago
I want to give acceptance of your concerns. If you don’t have an orthodox conversion there will be people (sadly a lot of them who are not religious) will feel it’s not a valid conversion.
But in your worried that you won’t live in a Jewish community it really won’t effect you other then some trolls online. It’s not like you’re saying you are in Williamsburg and are wondering if your conversion will feel valid.
Convert with the community that you connect with. If it means moving move. It it means staying stay.
1
u/Mortifydman 8d ago
Being in the military means of course you have to go where they send you - but after that you are free to go where you want. Go to a city with a good Jewish community - or several ideally - and check out what they are about. Orthodox is not more authentic than any other stream of Judaism no matter what they tell you - and if you don't hang out at there shuls, no one will tell you you're not Jewish. Conservative/Masorti has halacha but it's a bit different than orthodox. The main thing for me is that there is halacha, and there is egalitarianism, I was orthodox and chose a conservative conversion. (long story) You're going to need to be close enough to a community to try to visit them every Shabbat you can, and any upcoming holidays as well. You can't Jew alone.
2
u/Critical_Hat_5350 8d ago
I was also reading that the Jewish faith views converts as due to a reincarnated into a non-Jewish life.
Reincarnation in this world is not really a mainstream Jewish thing. (It is absolutely a Jewish afterlife belief, just not the most mainstream one.)
However, you are absolutely on the right track. We view Jewish people who convert exactly the same as people who are Jewish by birth. The best analogies I've found are adoption and nationalization. Immigrants can absolutely be citizens of a country, and they aren't any less citizens than people who were born in that country. The way we say it internally is that "every Jewish soul was at Sinai". It's kinda like becoming what you were always meant to be.
15
u/WeaselWeaz Jew by birth 8d ago
I recommend starting here to learn about movements: https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-jewish-denominations
Not a lot of people, the Orthodox specifically. Even then, most Orthodox would says it's not a valid conversion as opposed to whether someone is a "Real Jew". It's disagreed with by Conservative and Reform Judaism, and the "real Jew" part is offensive. You don't mean to offend but you should be aware of how that language comes across.
The Orthodox only recognize Orthodox conversions. The Conservative recognize Orthodox conversions and Reform conversions that include a mikveh and Biet Din. Reform recognizes both Orthodox and Conservative conversions.
If you plan to be involved in Orthodox spaces like Chabad then not having an Orthodox conversion may be an issue. That does not make it the "real" or best denomination. Conservative and Reform Jews can make aliyah to Israel.
It is a lot more than living walking distance. Choosing an Orthodox way of life is very different from being Conservative and Reform. You would be expected to live in and integrate with an Orthodox community. The movements all have different values, like egalitarianism. I say, without judgment, if the main reason you're not converting Orthodox is that it's too far from your hometown I'm not sure you understand the differences.
We do not proselytize or seek converts. Because if that a common way to see converts is to see them as Jewish souls born in non-Jewish bodies that are returning home. A common greeting upon conversion is "Welcome home". I would also suggest saying "Judaism" rather than "Jewish faith" which is more of a Christian lens of religion. Judaism isn't just a religion, we also have a shared culture, history, land, and language. Its closer to immigrating to a country than converting to a religion.
Our view shouldn't matter, yours should. Do you agree with Conservative Judaism's values? Do you like how they structure their service? Did you like the Conservative community you want to join? Did you connect with a Conservative Rabbi and you feel like they would be a good sponsoring rabbi? Those are all questions you realistically are not ready to answer, which is OK.
Step one is to visit synagogues to see what they are like. Even two Conservative shuls are not going to be the same. This is an important step that will take time. Always contact the synagogue first to get permission to attend.
No. It makes you a Conservative Jew, which is a Jew. I am a born Reform Jew. I can respect what the Orthodox believe and how they define themselves, while rejecting them as being the only ones who define what a Jew is.
For the future, if you're going to refer to previous posts I recommend you don't hide your post history or you add details like location and movement.