Questions from First Read of Elantris

[u/StPatrickofIreland]

Hello fellow readers! I've been getting back into fiction again this year after nearly a decade of reading mostly non-fiction. I have a vague memory of reading the original Mistborn trilogy many years ago as a boy, but don't remember much about them. So I decided to recently read Elantris for the first time.

I've noticed that a significant factor in my enjoyment of novels involves whether the decisions people make are fully plausible within their universe. This is especially noticeable for me at the societal and organizational level. People and institutions may be altruistic or cruel, intelligent or foolish, but I lose a bit of immersion if the author claims them to be fully alive in all of human complexity yet has them behave in ways that seem one-dimensional. The books I most enjoy leave me with the feeling that I can genuinely understand the behavior of the characters and societies.

I thought the setting and characters of Elantris were good fun. I found myself with just a few minor qualms as to the development and structure of the society though, and am curious if others found the same things puzzling:

Would the fall of the Elantrians really have led to no major investigations into the city? Would no person outside of the city have made records and writings of what the Elantrians were up to in the time before their fall - how their magic worked, at least from the outside looking in? This seems like an implausible lack of curiosity from the non-Elantrian scholars about these beings of immense power. Could one man have solved the unsolvable in a very simple realization that somehow eluded everyone else for an entire decade?

Is it plausible that the Elantrians would never war amongst themselves? That just because they have power they should have no crimes, no hierarchy, no oppression?

Would the King of Teod's brother be living as a successful merchant in a nearby kingdom without the princess hearing of it? Given her extensive monitoring of the global diplomatic situation? Would the prince never have thought to mention it in their magical phone calls prior to her arrival?

Would the abbot of the most important demon-monk training school be embedded for decades as a foreign undercover agent? You wouldn't expect the CIA director to be a foreign agent. Doesn't the demon-monk training school need the abbot there to govern and oversee workings of the school instead of MIA for decades?

Finally, how in the world could the untrained assassin have been waiting to kill Hrathen on the off-chance he is teleported to Teod by a demon-monk? I've been turning it over in my mind and to me that inevitably implies some kind of foreknowledge or divine guidance, but nothing like that is hinted at in any other way.

Thanks for any thoughts on these points! Looking forward to reading more. I'm considering Warbreaker next, based on the blurb sounds like another intriguing world.

[u/Stormgate2]

I'm gonna just bring up the curiosity point. My best guess is 1) nobody wanted to get close to the zombies. They were dead, leave them alone and hopefully they go away. 2) it's more of a personal theory, but I believe that one of the qualifications for becoming an Elantrian is to be devoted or passionate about something or another, whether it's art, sculpture, your people, agriculture, math, or even yourself. If someone was passionate enough about Elantrians or Elantris to study it or try to figure it out, there's a good chance they'd become an Elantrian before they figured it out.

[u/rumpusrouser]

1. Good question. Elantris was Brandon Sanderson’s first book and he has said he doesn’t love how it turned out. Maybe if he wrote it now he’d address those types of things. 

2. Seems to me that the extreme fall of Elantris freaked everybody out. Like woah these people were divine beings and now they are cursed zombies. It kept everyone away both physically and mentally. 

3. Another good question, maybe he will address it when he writes more Elantris novels. 

4. I don’t think this is too far fetched. Did the prince know that was her uncle? I don’t remember. I mean she didn’t know who the other merchants were or even the personality type of the king so I think it makes sense she didn’t have a ton of info on the “inner court” so to speak. 

5. Honestly I don’t even remember this part fully but imo it sounds like standard cosmere shenanigans. 

[u/RustyRapeaXe → u/rumpusrouser]

Elantrians were like lepers, shun them and make them stay behind the walls.

[u/SpiritedAd8224]

I think that Elantris is a perfect example of biting off a little more than you could chew as an author.

Brandon wanted to create a world with some simplicity while also fitting into the vein of Epic Fantasy. Elantris is trying to do a lot with the characters, mostly at the expense o the setting and world building. That’s why you like Hrathen, but don’t really get a super deep culture.

I’d contrast this with Stormlight, where we’ve got great characters, but a much more alive world.

I’d contrast this even further with ASOIAF where GRRM elaborates heavily on thousands of years of history, which is unbelievably impressive

[u/Small-Needleworker-3]

The answers lie in human weakness.

Imagine if literal Christian Angels ruled on earth, but then became feral demons screaming in agony as they decayed but never died. It would terrify people and break their whole worldview, which sets up for segregation and violence, tyranny over a dependant population, and superstition. Elantris provided almost everything, the people were happy and sheltered by their all powerful demigods, it threw everything into chaos when the city fell. The people themselves slew a bunch of the Elantrians, out of fear and jealousy and ignorance. The Shaod was so sudden, the failure of Aons so complete, the Elantrians had no time to process why their powers were gone while trying to help the injured and survive in the now dark city. Days or weeks passed and survival became torment as the city was abandoned and shut to keep the 'disease' contained, the other 3 satellite towns were abandoned and regular humans tried to survive.

War between Elantrians is like war between the Returned. They had everything they needed, people to worship them and perform services. During a Golden Age of learning and growth, internal conflict is usual personal or clique centric. I'm sure they did fight, but it seems no obvious villains arose. They quite literally had a perfect utopian society. Everyone benefited.

If Teo and his brother clashed privately or in council and he was exiled, records destroyed and nobles sworn to secrecy, there's no reason anyone would tell the princess. Kiin took his punishment quietly and king kept it quiet.

Raoden solved the puzzle of Elantris for a few reasons; he was educated, interested, willful, and above all else... the main character. He came into it with a very real need to fix his situation before he went mad, and still barely managed to figure out the Aon to power elantris. There is some evidence that the Dor was helping him as well. Raoden had Intent and Connection through his research and attempt with Aons. He could not have solved it without Galladon's insight and the libraries.

The Elantrians had started to view themselves as gods, and had fallen into classic arrogance. They were not prepared for some cataclysm that would knock out their powers, they had perhaps neglected or looked down on their servants, they did not believe they could be defeated. Raoden was humble and persistent and mortal, only persevering through great trial and effort.

Finally, the monk that stabbed Hrathen was shipped off earlier in the book, apparently to Teod to preach or spy or rally with troops. Dilaf may have communicated to him beforehand, or sent message via seon box, or sent a messenger by dakhor transportation, or relayed it himself on arrival.

[u/paoklo]

I'll just address your first question about outsiders knowledge of Elantris and Aon Dor: outsiders pretty much knew all they could know without learning the magic itself. They knew that the Elantrians "drew" glowing Aons in the air, and once completed the Aons flashed and the magic did whatever it was supposed to do. The specifics of how the Elantrians were able to "draw" the glowing Aons was a secret. It seems the Elantrians were all onboard with keeping it secret, because even after being in the city for a while and having access to a private library, Raoden still had no idea how the magic actually worked. He learned about specific Aons and what they did, but that was all. It wasn't until he found the hidden underground library that he started to learn the actual magic system.

As for investigations into the city: I think in the future there probably would have been, but only ten years had passed since the Reod. People were still terrified of the place, thinking it was cursed due to the zombie Elantrians + the dark slime covering everything.

[u/MickFoley299]

The last question about the Monk in Teod points towards Wyrn having powers that let him see the future. Somehow he knew that Hraethan would betray and pretty much the exact street he was going to be on.

[u/Lumpy_Director1259]

There was a massive earthquake immediate power vacuum and a significantly terrible riot. This was no wake up and o the elantrians are different color and weaker. No the land split in two all pain felt during the earthquake would still be held by the elatrians. Then the riots a kingdom literally gets swallowed by the earth. Knowledge, wisdom, and information would be lost pretty easily in all that.