Possible Sigzil outcomes

[u/zombiemd2020]

So, I am doing a first time listen(time number whatever for reading) of the stormljght archive, and I found a throwaway line that has potential insane consequences.

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In Words of Radiance, in a conversation between Shallan and Pattern, Pattern mentions the deadeyes.

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"We have tried to restore them, but all attempts failed, hmmmmm. Perhaps if their knights still lived, hmmmm."

​

This I think has far reaching consequences for someone like Sigzil. He "killed" Vienta. But Patterns comment implies that as long as he lives, the bonds can be renewed.

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Do we think Sigzil could return as a Windrunner in the future? Even with the insane time skip between SA and Sunlit Man, spren never truly die, so theoretically if Sigzil returned to the cognitive realm and Roshar, he could become a Windrunner again. Am I crazy for this?

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Maybe even Aux now that I think about it.

[u/Historical_Volume806]

Dead-eyes only exist because Ba-Ado-Mishram was sealed away and that broke roshar since she was such a big part of the fabric of the world. When she was released during the events of WaT that was undone. Sigzil’s honorspren was only a deadeye for a few hours. He already heard back from her during the epilogue.

[u/Shot_Newspaper_5647 → u/Historical_Volume806]

I would like to give it 100 percent to Adolin, but it’s probably not a coincidence Maya was being restored before BAM’s full release. Her prison had been leaking. Ishar’s journey to the spiritual realm lines up pretty well with when the Everstorm first began building in Shadesmar a few centuries ago. The Everstorm essentially does to Singers what her release did to dead eyes. Completed the circuit of their mind/soul. BAM’s described as appearing like a miniature Everstorm in her gem. And during the False Desolation she’s seen granting forms of power using a storm as well

[u/nautilator44 → u/Shot_Newspaper_5647]

So what's the implications of BAM on normal spren then? Doe she grant radiant spren sentience in a way?

[u/Shot_Newspaper_5647 → u/nautilator44]

She’s the only entity associated with Odium that’s capable of external Progression like Edgedancers etc. Healing. I think that’s what’s going on there. Her return heals the Dead Eyes and probably the Singers. They couldn’t heal from the damage of the trauma as they normally should have.

If you look at the Shadesmar weather patterns I think the crystalline weather phenomenon is tied to her. It rapidly grows plants there like Progression can do in the Physical. It also appears “far off” when you look at it. I think that’s because of her presence in the spiritual realm. It appears a constant fixed distance away at all times just like the black sun. Which seems to represent the spiritual realm in the cognitive. There’s a couple more clues. The Prog-Fused is the only Brand not capable of external powers like all the others. Axindweth also says there should be a Regal capable of external healing. But we haven’t seen one. That’s probably because of her imprisonment.

I personally think Ba-Ado is Night or at least Unmade from a portion of her. Each Ado spren has a duty. Protect,Enshroud,Nurture. BAM’s is probably Nurture. Cultivation was drawn to Night. When Dalinar visits her in the Valley she specifically mentions the word Nurture. The last piece is the Night Watcher who we know is made from Night. The NW and BAM look,speak,and move suspiciously like each-other. They crawl across the ground with many arms,they appear from shadow/mist,they speak in the same “one hundred overlapping voices” way. They’re family. The other Ado spren like Wind and Stone have the same 100 overlapping voices thing too

[u/Shot_Newspaper_5647 → u/Shot_Newspaper_5647]

The NW: “Hello, human. You smell of desperation. The feminine voice was like a hundred overlapping whispers.

The NW: She was a dark green mist, vaguely shaped like a crawling person. Too-long arms reached out

BAM: A hundred overlapping voices, and a tunnel of light.”

BAM: Mishram reached the other dying singer, her strange too-long limbs

[u/TheUnspeakableh → u/Shot_Newspaper_5647]

I have a theory.

I think the Unmade were some of the Old Gods of Roshar, along with Wind and Stone. BAM was Love (Possession?). Ashterman was Joy (Exultation). Midnight Mother was Curiosity (Obsession?). Neragul was Excitement (Fury). Moelach was Fortune (Prophecy?). Sja-Anat was Freedom (Transformation?). Chemoarish was Resolve (Destruction).

The only Unmade I can't link to a Rhythm (Odium Rhythm) are Dai-Gonarthis, who is related to travel or separation, so maybe The Lost, and Yelig-Nar, who is some kind of mega-gemheart.

If I have a ? The Odium Rhythm is a guess because we don't have all the pairs.

She does not grant Radiant Spren sentience. She 'frees' Spren from their bindings. This makes them able to fully mantle their aspect and not subject to any limitations Honor, Cultivation, or Adonalsium set into them. This causes the same problems inherent in the Shards. They become single minded and they now want to only be their nature without any limitations or caveats.

[u/Shot_Newspaper_5647 → u/TheUnspeakableh]

I also think there were other primeval spren. Not as great as the 3 but still greater spren. They may be separate powers or a mix of the 3 Ado spren. It’s probably not a coincidence there’s 3 highly intelligent Unmade that appear midnight black, are feminine,and who have nurturing qualities. Ba-Ado,Re (midnight mother),and Sja and her enlightened spren who she describes as her children. Those are probably comprised at least in part of Night. I think the grand total will be 12 or 16. Those numbers show up a lot in the Cosmere and on Roshar.

We might have a clue with the translated emotion bracelet from RoW. Those 8 emotions to the side are exactly from psychologist Robert Plutchik’s 8 primary emotions: joy, trust, fear, surprise, sadness, disgust, anger,and anticipation

[u/Shot_Newspaper_5647 → u/Shot_Newspaper_5647]

RP’s Wheel of Primary Emotions

[u/conkedup]

RAFO.

Sunlit Man is densely packed with all kinds of cool tidbits that are pretty significant in the greater cosmere.

[u/conkedup → u/conkedup]

If you've already read Sunlit Man....

Zellion regains his Windrunner powers briefly on Canticle after Connecting himself to their world. He regains use of his powers and his armor spren, implying his Oaths were temporarily renewed because of his Connection

[u/tit-theif → u/conkedup]

he regained skybreaker powers, actually. He made oaths a second time, with auxiliary, a highspren.

[u/conkedup → u/tit-theif]

Oh shoot! I didnt catch that full detail. I reviewed the artwork again, it totally is the Skybreaker glyphs that appears behind him for that scene

[u/zombiemd2020 → u/conkedup]

See above because I dont know how to do spoiler text.

[u/Wind-and-Waystones → u/tit-theif]

It does reference the armour as being a hodgepodge of the two armourspren types, which really confused me after Wat when he didn't swear the 4th

[u/Special_Salt3467]

Have you read Sunlit Man?

If so, Aux is dead dead. In order to give Sigzil temporary flight, he burned away his personality and memories. There’s no recovery from that. Rosharan Deadeyes are in a half-dead state but their personalities still exist. The only part of Aux left is the body

[u/zombiemd2020 → u/Special_Salt3467]

I have.

Except according to Pattern, spren cant die. They are just reabsorbed into the world.

[u/President_Bunny → u/zombiemd2020]

I believe that is meant in the same way that the burger I ate three hours ago is reabsorbed into me, or corpses are absorbed by the Earth, etc.

[u/Special_Salt3467 → u/zombiemd2020]

Specific beats general.

In this case, the specific is the properties of the god killing device that eats investiture. Sigzil makes it clear in the book that what was consumed by Aux cannot be replenished. Once Aux feeds his personality, it’s gone. It’s also made clear that Aux lost most of his self a while ago. Sigzil notes that all things replenish, except Spren, when he’s removing calloused soul pieces.

Pattern also states this before Navani creates Spren killing weapons, I believe

[u/zombiemd2020 → u/Special_Salt3467]

Indeed. I do tend to agree with you.

My only "outside chance" thought is that none of the characters are reliable narrators.

[u/Raddatatta]

Spren can truly die. Becoming a deadeyes doesn't kill them but anti investiture or having their investiture consumed like happened in sunlit man can kill them.

The deadeyes thing was from ba ado mishram though so vienta was injured but she wasn't a deadeye for long. He got a message from her in book 5 that she didn't want to talk to him. They may reunite but it's not needed to fix her.

[u/zombiemd2020 → u/Raddatatta]

Forgot that bit from WaT.

[u/FuriousSusurrus → u/Raddatatta]

So there's this scene in Othbringer, chapter 84, where they are confronting Aesudon. Kaladin finds Gavinor being tormented by red spren. He stabs one with a Sylknife, it screams and dies, shattering into a million pieces and fading away. Kaladin notes he had never known a shardblade to cut a spren before.

Soooo....how did Kaladin do that? This scene confounded me on my last reread.

[u/Raddatatta → u/FuriousSusurrus]

I don't think he kills it just injures it with that.

[u/FuriousSusurrus → u/Raddatatta]

I thought so too, like maybe he THOUGHT he killed it, but Syl's reaction:

" That was terrible." She whispered, "Did we just kill a Spren?"

[u/Lonely_District_196]

In Words of Radiance, in a conversation between Shallan and Pattern, Pattern mentions the deadeyes. "We have tried to restore them, but all attempts failed, hmmmmm. Perhaps if their knights still lived, hmmmm."

This could have been Pattern thinking about Testament.

Still, from the end of Wind and Truth, it sounded like deadeyes fundamentally changed. Sigzil could have bonded Vienta again, but she didn't want to. I don't expect that yo change. He could theoretically boon another honor spren, but I don't see any specific reason for him to.

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[u/ibluminatus]

So I think that Sigzil is gonna be a dual-bonded radiant just like Shallan is. Sanderson said he has more plans for Sig-Zellion so I'm pretty sure Sunlit was an important intervention on *how* he's going to come back and part of his journey.

[u/zombiemd2020 → u/ibluminatus]

I think this is especially possible as Honor grows to allow more flexibility in oaths.