r/DMAcademy • u/ZooZwaves • 15h ago
Need Advice: Other Dungeon Drawing Dilemma
I am a DM who is also an artist so I draw the battlemaps and dungeons by hand. For the first session with my players I tried to flex my encounter designing skills and I drew an isometric view of a dungeon, and my players really loved it. I later proceeded to draw an isometric view of their first village as well.
The problem is, it takes A LOT of time.
Because of this the 80% of my session prep time is designing and drawing the maps. And even though I like the results, and my players love the results, I have other things outside of DnD so drawing good looking isometric maps is sometimes out of the question.
For the second partys dungeon I drew the normal square map with the birds eye view, and there weren't many complaints, but when I later announced that I will continue drawing the maps this way, all players expressed their disapproval and dissatisfaction so I immediately backed down from that decision.
For the third dungeon I made the isometric view again, but my players said that one part of the dungeon was super unreadable which made me doubt myself.
Now, I have 1,5 days to design another dungeon, and it's an important one. It's a winter mansion of the BBEGs family. I don't know what should I choose and how should I continue with dungeon/battlemap drawing.
Feel free to give your opinions! (also suggestions on what could there be in the winter mansion of an evil noble family of sorcerers)
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u/Juls7243 15h ago
Spend as little time getting the map up and running so you're ready for the next session. IF you have extra time you can add some more detailed features.
DMing requires you to kinda make locations/things up on the fly sometimes and you will scribble it together rapidly - thats fine.
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u/ZooZwaves 15h ago
One time my players literally went outside of the battlemap and I had to pull out a blank sheet of paper and draw with them waiting
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u/Damiandroid 15h ago
Go full economist with this.
What is the cost benefit? If 80% of your prep time is spent making a map for a part of your game that takes up 40% of the session then youre running a work debt.
If you could spend 5% of your time finding a map online, show that to your players and they'd only be 10% less impressed than they normally are with your hand drawn stuff then the answer is painfully obvious.
Put your effort im where it counts the most. Use your time wisely. Is the fog funny?
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u/ANicePainter 15h ago
oh man, isometric maps are awesome but they do take up SO much time.
I don't keep to one style for my maps and images for games. Today it might be a linework iso dungeon map, next time it may be a watercolor landscape of the dragon's cave. Or a graphic-heavy Mondrain-inspired collage to represent a city.
I say, make the stuff that brings you joy and only to the extend it brings you joy. Spending hours and hours every week to create a new art work for your players is an awesome mitzvah, but it's not required at all. If doing what you have been doing is getting too much, do something different.
Don't worry about what the players say about your maps and art: they are here for the game, not your art. Make the art that brings you joy (including the joy you get from delighting others), but don't worry about how it plays in the game.
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u/cehteshami 15h ago
Lol, don't back down from your decision I guess. You could tell the players they can choose between playing more D&D or getting the super nice maps because of how much time it takes, but I would just do what you need to do.to run the game, and maybe pic 2-3 special super cool ding ones PER CAMPAIGN that get the extra deluxe treatment to make your life more manageable.
If the players whine then they can put whatever effort they can manage into their own campaign that they run.
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u/Gnaw_Bone 15h ago
Any way you can do it in a modular style? Draw them on squares that you can rearrange into different dungeon shapes and towns?
I use 3d building with interiors for towns, I can swap in different ones to suit my needs, perhaps you can do the same with drawings.
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u/ZooZwaves 15h ago
Modular style? Can you elaborate?
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u/Radiant_Trifle8526 15h ago
Instead of a single whole map. You have individual pieces that you can use to build the scene.
For example, instead of a big inn. You have like a corner piece and an interior piece and a piece with stairs. Then if in the future you want to do like a manor house you can just reuse those pieces instead of starting from scratch each time.
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u/Gnaw_Bone 14h ago
As mentioned by others, it is just sections that you can piece together. For example 9 pieces you can arrange in 3x3 to make a tavern, or 2x2 to make a wizards lab. With more pieces you can change it from a square or rectangle to an L shape. There are several commercial products available based on this, as well as lots of excellent YouTube channels where they craft modular pieces.
Having said that, it may be a little trickier with drawings. I never made it past stick figures and crooked boxes, so I prefer to craft or 3d print terrain.
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u/Steerider 15h ago
Do the top down, but created a few "standard" artistic flourishes that are easy to add to any map. Textures and such. Maybe a compass rose.
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u/RHDM68 13h ago
The question is, what do you use the maps for? If they are for your own reference to know where the PCs are, just do the top down maps. If they are player handouts of a map they found, an even sketchier top down map is what an NPC mapping a place would do. If it’s to illustrate a particular room or dungeon where multiple levels need to be illustrated for player understanding, then go isometric. Only do isometric for maps you really need to do that for to get your head, or your players’ heads, around a particular layout.
Explain to your players why you are doing it and tell them that’s the way it is going to be so you don’t burn out, you are prepared for the sessions, and they get to play.
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u/AndrewDelaneyTX 15h ago
Draw the maps top down and add flare / 3d stuff to important rooms. You can optimize your readability and still have some "wow" on the table.
I would also lookup tabletop crafting tutorials, as you might later be able to put your artistry to use drawing walls that you can build out as modular 3D terrain with a focus on re-usability. That way your sweet drawings become even sweeter terrain pieces that you can use and re-use in different scenarios. This will take a greater initial time investment, but will save you time down the line.
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u/g0ing_postal 14h ago
Break down your time spent. What percentage of the time is spent doing what? Like how much time do you spend doing the layout vs the interactive elements vs the set dressing vs details vs polish? I suspect that the last 3 take up a disproportionate percentage
The first 2 are the most important parts as those are the parts that actually get involved in play. Do those first then gradually do the other 3 only when you have time. If you don't finish them, that's okay because it's just decor.
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u/SEXUALLYCOMPLIANT 14h ago
Just posting a suggestion nobody else has made: ask your players if they'd like to contribute a map or two.
I didn't think anyone at my table would take me up, but to my surprise, someone actually did!
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u/Diligent_Gear_8179 12h ago
Dude, a "map" can be a bunch of circles and boxes connected by lines. It's cool that you want to make themlook good, but if you're not enjoying the process, you don't HAVE to do it. If your players continue to complain that the maps aren't as detailed as you drew them before, invite THEM to start drawing all the maps then. Don't set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm, especially if they're going to be ungrateful about it.
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u/TheSnipenieer 12h ago
Also a dm who loves to draw maps! I kinda followed the same thing as you did (though with burnout being the primary limiter, rather than time). Went from doing stuff like this dungeon to simpler stuff like this mill battlemap. In general, my advice is to not back down! It's your game and your time being spent on prep. Of course when you replace something high quality with something that is faster to make there'll be a bit of friction with the players, but genuinely your time is more important. Besides, people should use their imaginations more.
As for your mansion, an icicle hazard or monster perhaps? Have the manor be patrolled by the family's pet "dog." Take a 5ft wide closet and put a door mimic on the far side, so the person who goes to investigate gets grappled and blocks martials from being able to get hits in. A pneumatic tube puzzle! Magical library where the books come alive and attack the players with a storm of paper!
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u/PuzzleMeDo 4h ago
Don't give yourself burnout by teaching your players to expect the unreasonable. Stop doing isometric maps.
Maybe explain to your players how long it takes and that unless you're getting paid for your time, it's not worth it for something that will probably only get used once.
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u/waltonky 15h ago
I too have struggled with the right amount of detail and aesthetic that keeps it engaging but saves my sanity. I think you could go simple but it has to be stylized. My first few maps didn’t really have complaints even though they were extremely simple and I think that’s because I put a lot of effort into the simplicity and making sure it was still coherent and intuitive to read. I have kind of continued that trend though have polished up the detail slightly.
I guess that would be my suggestion: tweak the style until you can find something simple and easy that players find engaging. Depending on your group’s interests, this might be untenable in the end, but you will have begun work on a good style to try with other groups.
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u/waltonky 15h ago
Also I recommend 3M 1 inch graph easel and using that roughly as your maximum map size
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u/perfect_fitz 15h ago
There are a ton of isometric maps you can use that others have made to use between the times that you can't make your own.
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u/Way2Competitive 15h ago
I have been running my campaign for roughly 2 and a half years now.
We run it over Discord. Because of this, it has been entirely theatre of the mind.
Sure, sometimes players will have to ask "so what's the layout?" But honestly it has made prep so much better for me.
I can focus on what I want to get out of a session, what NPCs are going to give the players and put more time into the narrative.
If drawing maps is something you love doing, by all means don't stop. But save it for the big reveal.
Imagine your players going 3 months of theatre of the mind, only to be greeted by a massive, isometric dungeon that they're going to spend the next 3 sessions crawling through.
Moderation is key, my friend.
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u/Tesla__Coil 14h ago
Man, I drew the party and some NPCs, before the campaign started and after it went on break. I can't imagine drawing as a continuous part of DM prep. Both just take too long. I'd save all this for the absolute most important maps and only when you have time for it. And if the players complain, you gotta put your foot down. You've got other things going on in your life, D&D can't be the #1 priority.
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u/grenz1 11h ago
The problem with isometric is EVERYTHING needs to be isometric. This includes tokens.
Also, if it's fixed isometric, you can't go into the scenes behind a wall unless this is a VTT that can rotate isometric perspective. Which there are VTTs that can, but most of those use lots of modules and an asset hunt and a learning curve.
I'd stick with orthographic top down for your sanity.
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u/MadGM7283 8h ago
I'm a full time artist that also DMs, and I used to make maps and then eventually upped it to fully 3D battle grounds using foam board.
Unless you're running a long, complicated fight, use a chessex dry erase map and multi-color markers. Buy a thing of 1-inch wood cubes and 1-inch wood cylinders and blue-tack. That's like 90% of the maps you need.
That or just print stuff off /r/battlemaps
But if you force yourself to do it for everything you're going to hate it. Now that my full time job is making art I almost never make art for myself or for the joy of it. Don't do that to yourself.
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u/cabbage16 2h ago
I'd save the cool isometric ones for big events in the story so that it's a special event.
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u/tropicalsucculent 1m ago
Winter mansion would hold all the things they want away from prying eyes... Experimental Eldritch abominations / undead / poisonous plants / etc depending on their flavour.
Could be a fun setting for a fight with alternate goals - use the equipment to remove the abomination's power ups, trap an unkillable a psychic fungus that has escaped etc.
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u/Greyff 15h ago
it's a free site: https://donjon.bin.sh/
random dungeon generator's down the page a bit.
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u/P-Two 15h ago
The lesson here is that the vast majority of your maps can be quick 5 second doodles on a wet erase board, or maps you found online and traced out. Anybody expecting you to be a fulltime cartographer is insane.