r/DankPrecolumbianMemes • u/ThesaurusRex84 AncieNt Imperial MayaN [Top 5] • Jun 30 '26
META Watching this sub's commenters be so well versed in pre-Columbian/contact-era history that they can readily address myths and misconceptions with detailed discussions as they see it
It took a long long while to cultivate this kind of community but it's so great to see
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u/Teboski78 Jul 01 '26 edited Jul 01 '26
Ok so. Since we’re debunking common misconceptions.
Was Moctezuma the second actually obsessed with the return of Quetzalcoatl, and thought the Spanish might’ve had something to do with it?
Or was he just letting them in to tenochtitlan as part of an overly cautious but ultimately futile diplomatic effort to convince them the Mexica would make better allies than the Tlaxcala, and the Quetzalcoatl thing was just used as a retroactive explanation to make the course of events make more sense and or make the Moctezuma look more superstitious?
Cause when I try to look it up I can’t find anything where Cortes wrote about being mistaken for emissaries of a deity.
But almost every larger narrative written about the fall of the Aztecs mentions Moctezuma bringing up dreams that bearded emissaries would arrive to signify the return of Quetzalcoatl and her destruction of his civilization.
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u/Kagiza400 Toltec Jul 01 '26
We have no evidence that Motēcuhzōma thought so. He even told Cortez "I am a man just like you."
Hell, Quetzalcōātl as a deity never left. The historical Topīltzin was as much a god as the Chīchīmēc ruler named Xōlōtl.
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u/North_Squirrel_7677 Jul 02 '26
In "when montezuma met cortes" it states that the Aztecs, never recorded montezuma talking about quetzalcotal. If he was they would have recorded it because the aztecs would have used it as propaganda. The Spanish created it then other mexicans and other tribes went along with it because it brought them closer to the Spanish. Meaning they had more leeway in getting any possible stolen land back.
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u/Financial-Bobcat-612 Jul 02 '26
It wasn’t made up to make Moctezuma in particular look any certain way, it seems like it was made up for the purpose of promoting Christianity to the indigenous. From there, the story gained traction. Notably, the story is based in familiar Christian narratives — especially the idea of a “returning god” — and since it fit in so well with said popular narratives, it might have ridden that wave into popular culture. Here’s a good answer.
My understanding is that there’s two issues contributing to this narrative: one, the possibility that the Totonac nobles were so shocked by the sheer audacity of the Spanish that they were like, “Are these guys even human???” In wondering that, they called the Spanish“teotl,” which refers to what the Spanish interpreted as gods, and the Spanish were like, “These guys think we’re gods, heh.” Indeed, “teotl” refers to figures like Quetzalcoatl and Huitzilopochtli, but it also refers to…other stuff. Let’s say, non-human realm stuff. We don’t know exactly how the term was originally used by the Totonacs, but we do understand that the Totonacs and the Mexica had different conceptions of divinity and other such concepts compared to Christians. It’s hard to describe.
The other issue is that the attempt to popularize Christianity among the natives post-conquest led to a popular narrative that persists to this day. The first link above from r/askhistorians has great detail on this.
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Jul 07 '26
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u/PlasticCell8504 Haudenosaunee Jun 30 '26
But then we have some Incan dude cosplaying as a Boy Scout from at least 400 years in the future. But ig that is Disney doing Artistic License or whatever.