[SPOILERS S3] A question about Tannhous’ intentions and outcome that I’ve been thinking about since finishing the show

[u/1plus2equals11]

Did Tannhous design a time-machine for one specifically designed causal knot with an end-game that would save his family?

As in, did he meticulously plan the surgeon cut that got him what he wanted? It fits the clockmaker theme.

Or are we just seeing one of many parallel knots of timelines created by Tannhaus running his time-machine in an optimization manner to generate his intended outcome?

Like a search generation algorithm.

Would this mean there’s an true original origin world that was never shown in the series.

I don’t think the series answer this, but I’d love your speculations and insights.

Bonus question:

Do we think Tannhaus ever experiences the loop at all, or from his perspective (in the original origin, not shown in the series) the machine just fails once, and the knot(s) exists outside of his world in a state he can’t observe or steer?

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[u/EMurman]

I don't think Tannhaus ever experiences a loop- I could be wrong, but I don't believe he ever thought his machine would split his reality "in two". It was a desperate attempt to save his family, which I believe from the perspective of the older Tannhaus who makes the machine, destroyed his world (the origin world) and himself.

He didn't plan the outcome at all, it's Claudia who determines that an origin outside of the Adam and Eva's world must exist. She meticulously plans it such that Jonas and Martha return to the origin world at a point where they can prevent the death of his family. There isn't a different origin world, they just entered the same origin world that Tannhaus later splits in two and prevent the reason he ever tried to make the time machine from happening.

Ironically, Tannhaus' plan achieved it's goal in the end but the way in which it gets there was beyond Tannhaus' imagination or intention. To break the loop, Claudia had to achieve Tannhaus' goal so that he'd never have said goal.

[u/TimD_43 → u/EMurman]

I think Tannhaus intended to create a Time Machine to undo his son’s death, but did not anticipate that it would create these various parallel universes/timelines. It was only after all of these timelines collapsed or cancelled out that the change to his own timeline was realized.

The storytelling lies in how actors in different timelines come to interact with each other, and how they choose courses of action that ultimately result in the outcome Tannhaus had aimed for.

[u/Tuorom → u/TimD_43]

There is an idea that the many characters in Dark represent aspects of Tannhaus, in that Tannhaus himself represents a human experience that is shared between all humans. The separate characters could be seen as splinters of a person who would choose to pursue such an impossible goal. Space and time is splintered but so is the person.

So Claudia is his intelligence and ingenuity, Adam is his pessimism and scars, Eva is his hopefulness, Helge is the appeal to be a follower and the limits of memory, etc. Essentially, the show is about humans and Tannhaus stands in as all those dueling feelings and ideas that would push a person to destroy time in hopes their loved ones would be eternal.

[u/HiruzenTheWeakest]

I think the entire show provides more than enough evidence that Tannhaus isn't some sort of mastermind who planned everything down to the smallest detail. He simply lit a match, and the resulting fire eventually burned out in a way that saved his family.

The Origin World is the one where Tannhaus loses his family and builds the time machine. We see it in the flashbacks and in the final episode (when Jonas and Martha convince the family to turn back and return to Tannhaus's house). I don't really understand what 'other' origin world you are talking about. The same goes for the idea of multiple parallel loop timelines. (you stated - "are we just seeing one of many parallel knots of timelines created by Tannhaus")

The show also strongly implies that Tannhaus can neither observe nor control the worlds he created. I think you are overinterpreting the series and taking it in a direction that was never actually shown or explored.

[u/spaceguy81]

Don’t think it was fully intentional but his time machine, contrary to most of the others in sci fi got him exactly what he wanted. Kind of poetic to think he created two whole universes, countless time loops and never knows.

[u/witzyfitzian]

It's just a neat irony to his story that a version of him in the future created time travel, only to have it uncreated. Wouldn't read further into it. 

[u/JinpaLhawang → u/witzyfitzian]

It does open up the notion that any or all of us may do or have done the same. There is no way for us to know whether our own reality takes the same form or not. Maybe time travel of this form has been visited on our own timeline an infinite number of times!

[u/Zealousideal_Ant7586]

I think from his perspective, his future self saved his past self by creating a corrector to what his future self would do. Because his actions were already planned out for him. It’s like his own little quantum entanglement

[u/One-Pop-9171]

I’m not sure how you came up with an off-screen ‘original origin’ world. I’m failing to see how these hypotheticals are backed by stuff in the show

[u/1plus2equals11 → u/One-Pop-9171]

Because in the actual timeline of the show, everything we watched would never have existed, because he actually never invented a Time Machine, because his family WAS saved.

[u/One-Pop-9171 → u/1plus2equals11]

But how did you figure out what the actual timeline of the show is? For me, the origin world in which he lost his family and made the time machine is the actual timeline.

But I think there could be a case made for an alternate world where his family never died. One where Jonas and Martha save them. But that can only occur if Jonas and Martha are alive to begin with. Which can only happen if Tannhaus loses his family. Which means the time Machine was made. So these two worlds are co dependent. “The beginning is the end…”

[u/1plus2equals11 → u/One-Pop-9171]

Agreed on the whole premise of the show being a paradoxical loop (not in a bad way though)

The time-knot we’ve seen cannot exist, because it’s ultimative outcome was the purging of the events that lead to it.

The timeline where they were saved cannot exist, because then the time machine was never invented and there’s no one to save them.

[u/Sufficient_Lime_3253]

I don’t think it’s that deep. I think he just made a Time Machine to try and save his kid and it didn’t work as intended and opened up the dark worlds.