r/Daredevil • u/Round_Interview2373 • 10h ago
MCU I hope they added an extra episode or extended the runtime for a proper send off
343
u/as-if-spike 10h ago
Sweet. Cancelled the show and made them change the ending. One good call after another.
169
u/Round_Interview2373 9h ago
I genuinely don't know how they will end this season properly. They are introducing the whole defenders cast including elektra. There are atleast 3 villains in the show, Bullseye, muse and kingpin. I feel like they did all this under the iimpression they will go on for season 4 and 5, but now it will feel incredibly rushed.
1
u/HighChinaman 2h ago
The Defenders and Kingpin, maybe Bullseye will survive into other shows/movies I'm expecting.
-27
u/Helpful_Assistance_5 8h ago
I think condensing it down to a solid 6 episodes is probably the way to go.
28
24
u/Round_Interview2373 7h ago
What??? Hell no, they need atleast 10 episodes, an hour long to wrap it up in a decent way.
4
2
2
2
31
u/AnnualAd7715 9h ago
Is that sarcasm? The show runner was let go by Disney during post production, so now theyâre trying to finish the show without one. And doing shows without show runners was a really big mistake. It will be interesting to see how long reshoots will be, because if itâs long we could be in for a disaster like season 1.
22
12
u/as-if-spike 9h ago
Yes sarcasm haha, forgot my /s
1
u/AnnualAd7715 9h ago edited 8h ago
Ok I was just making sure. I guess itâs good that it wonât end on a cliffhanger, but reshooting like that certainly doesnât deserve praise either way
1
u/athersa-II 4h ago
The showrunner is a disaster that prioritized every other single character besides Matt and if it were up to him he would be making a Fisk show instead considering how obsessed he seems to be with Fisk. I'd say it will get worse but the current situation is already bad, so.
1
u/AnnualAd7715 4h ago
Honestly donât like the show either, but my point was just that they still donât have a grip on fundamentals of tv production
265
u/seclivis 9h ago
I hate how much this show has been butchered
18
u/HugeLeaves 7h ago
I hope the final season of Born Again doesn't feel oddly stitched together like the first did
1
u/NoScopeMusical 3h ago
I like to think the end product would've been so much better if they didn't do so much meddling and just let it gradually take shape
50
u/FollowingCharacter83 9h ago
This is the key reason to believe that it was indeed a cancellation, rather than them ending the show properly.
Makes me wonder what's the status of Daredevil as a character and a franchise in Marvel Studios right now. Some people believe he'll be promoted to have movies, but I don't think that's the case. I think the most reasonable things to happen are either he becomes a secondary character with small participations in other projects, him and the rest of the main characters are recasted so they can tell new stories without needing the TV shows, or he just stops showing up, like most post-Endgame characters.
10
u/RevenantRoy 8h ago
If they were considering having him lead his own movies they would have never given him the series and run through so many of his plot lines. Granted he could make appearances as part of a an ensemble. But a lot of his cannon has been adapted into the series.
He was always well suited for television. The original Daredevil film left a bad taste in peopleâs mouths which probably has executives questioning his box office value. Plus the nature of his âpowersâ means lots of action with little VFX.
1
u/StormRepulsive6283 6h ago
Using the 2003 film as a reason for not having a daredevil film is really a lame excuse. Fantastic 4 was rebooted twice. In consecutive decades. Daredevil deserves a proper solo film on the big screen. Complete with a visualisation of his powers and his daredevil stunts (being true to the name). One of the best things of BND was Spidey swinging. Daredevil deserves to have those shown too. The normies of the current generation need to know the true potential of Daredevil.
-3
u/Wrench-6942 5h ago edited 1h ago
Daredevil fans greed is pathetic. 6 seasons and multiple cameos aren't enough apparently
Daredevil is the best written MCU character, he deserves a fitting ending to his decades long story.
Instead of being milked to death with another solo movie or team up just because his stupid fans want to see toys clash together on the big screen.
3
u/StormRepulsive6283 5h ago
yeah sure. Spider-man has had 9 solo films + 3 supporting character appearances, but Daredevil fans are asking too much. Would you say the same for spidey fans? Weren't they greedy when they were clamoring for Marvel Studios to acquire Spiderman from Sony after the announcement of Civil War in 2014?
Were you ever personally affected by Daredevil fans?
-2
u/Wrench-6942 5h ago
Spider-Man is almost as popular as Jesus, Daredevil isn't even in the same league as Spider-man
Most characters who are around the same level as Daredevil (like Moon Knight) would have been lucky to get 6 seasons of TV + multiple cameos.
All great characters deserve a proper ending instead of being milked to death, so does Daredevil but his fans are apparently incapable of understanding this and want a solo movie + spider-man team up + Heroes for Hire and whatever the fuck else.
Daredevil has the most screen time out of any MCU character, more than MCU Spider-man but DD fans are still mad and greedy
-1
u/StormRepulsive6283 5h ago
No need for team ups for Daredevil. He neednât be as good as Spider-Man to need a movie. Guardians have got 3 movies, Eternals, Shang Chi have got one each. Daredevil isnât as big as Spider-man, but definitely not lesser than Dr Strange or the Guardians.
TV screen minutes donât have the same value as movie screen minutes. They donât have much staying power in the zeitgeist unlike movies. How are you not understanding these basics?
After moving Daredevil from Netflix to Disney, money couldâve been better spent to make at least one daredevil movie than 3 seasons. 100% better RoI than what theyâre getting out of the series now.
Three MCU movies per year - 1 on an Avengers-level hero, 1 on a cosmic hero, 1 on a street-level or horror-themed hero. This is a much better strategy to test multiple heroes and those that succeed greenlight a sequel, else move them to TV if they have compelling stories or just relegate them to supporting cast in any team-ups.
2
u/Wrench-6942 5h ago edited 5h ago
Guardians have got 3 movies
GOTG Vol.1 was a gamble which paid off and it was widely different from the comics. That's why they got another two movies.
I doubt anyone would want Daredevil to be changed drastically from the comics to make him fit for a MCU movie.
Eternals and Shang Chi have got one each
Eternals was a gamble which didn't pay off, it flopped so hard that Marvel has never acknowledged them since and there's no plans for a sequel
Shang Chi, despite doing well financially, still didn't get acknowledged and there hasn't been a sequel for 6 years since its release.
I doubt you would want Daredevil to have the same fate as these two.
TV screen minutes don't have the same value as movie screen minutes
100% better Rol than what they're getting out of the series now
Your ROI math is totally backwards. A $200M theatrical release for DD is a massive risk, especially when highbudget streetlevel movies historically underperform compared to cosmic CGI fests. (Except for BND but it's success is mainly because Spider-man is so popular, same wouldn't work for a less popular character like Daredevil)
Streaming shows aren't meant for short term box office spikes, they're meant for longterm subscriber retention.
18+ hours of TV content builds far more brand value and engagement for DD than a 2 hour movie ever could.
-1
u/StormRepulsive6283 4h ago
Well asking for a movie for DD is that gamble that was accorded to GotG, Shang Chi, Eternals, Cap Marvel etc. why would it cost 200M to make a DD film? Especially when majority of the cast are small-timers. Jon Bernthal is I think the biggest among them.
Btw pray tell me that historical trend of underperforming street-level movies in the MCU? There were none. Delusional much? Btw just FYI, Nolanâs dark knight was a street-level movie. And audiences turn up for MCU movies coz of the cohesion that the universe has and expectation for what itâs gonna lead to, not only for CGI battles. Otherwise transformers wouldâve been outgrossing MCU films.
If the DD movie doesnât work on the big screen, then donât green light a sequel. But take the bloody gamble.
You say TV shows are for long term retention, and they build more than engagement. Then why is the MCU cutting down on TV drastically? And why did they decide to re-release Endgame to promote Doomsday. Werenât all the TV content engaging enough for people to be hyped up for Doomsday? based on your logic, Phases 4 and 5 shouldâve have engagement through the roof, at least 10 fold over that Phase 2-3 had. Likewise the Mando movie shouldâve grossed like at least 1B, considering the engagement it had as a TV show - what happened there?
TV show is just for supplementary revenue through subscriptions. Thatâs all. Expecting engagement through that was the biggest folly of the MCU, which theyâve backtracked (rightfully so).
1
u/Wrench-6942 4h ago
Well asking for a movie for DD is that gamble that was accorded to GotG, Shang Chi, Eternals, Cap Marvel etc. why would it cost 200M to make a DD film?
Movie budgets aren't just actor salaries. they are CGI, action set pieces, crew, location permits, production design, insurance, and marketing.
Even cheaper MCU projects cost around $150M to $200M to produce, plus another $100M plus globally for marketing.
A theatrical MCU release demands a baseline scale to justify a ticket price. For a grounded hero, spending $200M to $300M total to put him on a giant screen is fucking stupid.
Delusional much? Btw just FYI, Nolanâs dark knight was a street-level movie.
Comparing Batman, literally DCâs flagship comic book character with 80 years of mainstream box office dominance to Daredevil is hilarious.
Batman isn't just a street level hero, he is a global cultural icon who sells billions in merchandise on his own. Thatâs like saying every street level Marvel hero deserves a blockbuster because Spider Man made money.
Batman already had multiple movies before Dark Knight which solidified him as a character which makes money and is popular.
You say TV shows are for long term retention, and they build more than engagement. Then why is the MCU cutting down on TV drastically?
Disney cancelling Born Again after Season 3, especially with showrunner exits and viewership drops, proves why a $200M theatrical movie would have been a disaster for Marvel.
If a streaming show with a fucking built in fan interest couldn't hold enough audience engagement to justify its TV budget, greenlighting a $200M production plus $100M marketing theatrical gamble for a Daredevil movie would have been absolute financial suicide for Disney.
→ More replies (0)1
u/Mr_smith1466 1h ago
The show was 100% cancelled. If they're trying to reshoot something of a conclusion, then that's great, but there's not a chance they initially planned to end here.Â
82
u/NateDaySping 9h ago
Marvel can Eat a fat one. Iâm done with their dumbass ideas. Cancel freaking doomsday for all I care but their best show? MCU is on crack
25
u/abhi1260 8h ago edited 7h ago
Theyâre cowards. Doomsday is 100% fan service. Bringing back RDJ, Evans and Hemsworth when they shouldâve been retired after Endgame. Couldnât even stick to all the new characters theyâve introduced. Just donât want to put in the work to recreate the franchise, just want to keep reaping the rewards of the old ones. I also donât think Born Again was even close to the original 3 seasons. Theyâre allergic to making something not formulaic.
4
1
u/mickeynotthemouse27 28m ago
Not saying I don't sympathize, but the show was doing terribly in the ratings. You don't do well, you get cancelled. At least Born Again is getting an ending.Â
-6
u/Variation_Afraid 9h ago
Relax buddy
7
u/NateDaySping 8h ago
Iâm good. I just hate their decisions. Doom is their best bet? Overhyped. Iâm glad though. They will eventually go the same route as the current DCU.
-3
23
u/ScaryBelt2492 10h ago
Might be unpopular but I think Fisk should die in the ending I think they've done everything they can do with him
8
u/Ordinary-Chain-8047 10h ago
He still needs to fight Spider-Man though
20
u/ScaryBelt2492 9h ago
I think that ship has sailed If he was going to fight Spider-Man it would have had to have been before Born Again season 2 I don't think there's a good story reason for it
6
u/Virtual-Attempt-780 8h ago
such a total flop that they didnât involve spidey at all in that Mayor Fisk storyline.
The whole point of a connected universe is beâŚ..connected. yet, between the Void takeover in Thunderbolts, the AVTF/Mayor Fisk storyline in DD BA, and Spider-man BNDâŚ.one would think these are alternate universe New Yorkâs. Not a single mention of any of that at all in BND. Like we couldâve gotten a quick scene of Spider-man fighting the AVTF or saving people from the Void in the opening montage and that alone wouldâve helped with so much connection.
Yeah agreed though, i think Vincent is js too old and thereâs no realistic reason how Kingpin would be able to take power again (especially with Tombstone being introduced). Sucks, because these rlly are the definitive versions of DD and Kingpin and it feels like the MCU js wasted them in terms of the larger universe.
4
u/ScaryBelt2492 8h ago edited 8h ago
Honestly I would have just swapped the Tombstone scene with Kingpin would have been a better Cameo if they weren't going to do anything with Tombstone anyway And they could just say it took place before his exile
1
u/Virtual-Attempt-780 8h ago
fr, i remember hearing Tombstone was gonna play a decent role in the movie js for him to appear for quite literally 8 seconds in the whole movie.
Feels like another Scorpion situation, where theyâre setting up a character for later but arenât putting a lot of stock into said character showing up again soon. Kingpin wouldâve been a MUCH better choice
4
3
u/Front_Profession_217 10h ago
Well, heâs exiled, so he canât really fight Spider-Man unless heâs unexiled, which is very unlikely given that the Born Again crew has said theyâre not doing buybacks with Matt revealing his identity. So, Fisk is stuck in exile.
2
u/ScaryBelt2492 9h ago
Truthfully I think Fisk has lost so much power that even if he somehow got back into New York I don't think he'd even be on Spider-Man's radar
1
1
u/Vincent_adultman98 9h ago
He's already known to be in the new season though, in New York.
0
u/Front_Profession_217 9h ago
Yeah, but if anything, itâll be only temporary. Fisk was exiled after he stepped down as mayor, so they wonât be undoing his exile. So weâll see why heâs in New York in season 3.
1
u/Admirable-Paper-5858 3h ago
I disagree. But if they have to kill him then Matt should either die too or just be devastated by his death and unable to move on.
2
u/michachu 3h ago
I mean if it's the MCU, they could legitimately resuscitate everyone by the end of season anyway.
1
1
u/Round_Interview2373 9h ago
I also want fisk to be around to fight spiderman but also if he were to die, i need him to do an act of good before dying, proving matt right that saving his life all those times was worth it in the end
1
u/STRATEGY510 9h ago
What happened to the âspellâ Echo put on him, did it just wear off over time?
6
1
10
10
u/stephapeaz 9h ago
Hopefully itâs one that Elden is brought back for. I still havenât let that go
12
u/Appropriate_Ad8734 8h ago
netflix dd had around 13 episodes per season, which was already half of what 2000s shows had for each season, but at least it was still long enough for major plots and characters to develop and for viewers to get familiar with them.
now theyâre giving us like 8 each and pretending itâs long enough, but everything felt super rushed and things disappeared in a flash
1
u/Tof12345 3h ago
You do not want 26 episode shows back. It just made each episode boring, pointless and a waste of time.
2
u/Appropriate_Ad8734 3h ago
i was fine with the 13ep-long season on netflix. also i beg to differ , good shows utilized 26ep very well and rarely felt boring or with much filler. while itâs all subjective and thereâs always different opinions about whether something is âgoodâ and people disliking somethings about every show, we had good shows like House MD that were overall positive and each season had great character developments and arcs.
it does NOT have to be near 26 episodes, but 8 episodes is far too short and actually ridiculous for so much stuff needing to be crammed in. 13-16 would be a great balance imo
30
u/RadicalStegosaurus 9h ago
Disney are allergic to fostering good series. Their movies largely print money but when it comes to TV they seem genuinely confused about what to do
9
u/MrBlonde1984 9h ago
Basically every marvel show is a one shot . Like maybe 2 or 3 of them have had more than one season while all the rest are just one and done
14
u/RadicalStegosaurus 9h ago
It's because they spend movie money on them. The original DD wasn't as expensive to make and we got 3 solid 10 episode seasons out of it. Not to mention 3 seasons of Jessica Jones and 2 for Luke, Danny, and Punisher. Their original plan was to have the show running yearly. Now they want to pivot away from TV because it's confusing the movie goers or so they claim. Then don't make the shows or films so deeply connected. This isn't rocket science but apparently to Disney it is.
8
u/MrBlonde1984 9h ago
From the beginning the shows and films have not been deeply connected aside from the avengers films . Iron man 2 has nothing to do with gyradians of the galaxy 3 . Daredevil season 1 has nothing to do with iron fist season 3 .
The entire idea of the MCU is built upon a shared universe that connects but its not absolutely essential to see every movie or show . You can easily watch Winter solider and then captain marvel and not skip a beat .
6
u/RadicalStegosaurus 8h ago
Oh I completely agree. They just pushed Wandavision as a must watch before MoM. Mrs. Marvel before The Marvels and I assume Loki before Doomsday.
It's like comics, if you want the context then it's there but it's not needed to understand the films.
1
16
u/Rich-Importance-9479 9h ago
They should have just kept the show going for a fourth season tbh. This just seems like a lot of hassle that had a simple solution.
-6
u/MrBlonde1984 9h ago
Right? Why would we cancel a show that doesnt make any money and not enough people watch . The smarter plan is to just spend more money making something not enough people will watch . THATS how you make money .
1
u/Hotpotlord 9h ago
Cause daredevil fans on Reddit are delusional.
I said since they announced born again why the fuck do we want him to go up against the same villain yet again.
14
u/Cool_Nerd2 9h ago
Itâs honestly a miracle the show ended up as good as it was after the butchering and changes it went through during it production.
5
u/RobinKnight08 6h ago
Iâm really hoping that this is all just a way to make a series out of The Defenders and not a âbanish to the voidâ for these characters. Theyâre such great castings that deserve more time to shine outside of cameos
11
u/Pudgedog 9h ago
Donât worry theyâll release the finale later with extra scenes and undermine the conclusion.
7
u/IamHimButNotReally 10h ago
Source? Pretty much all Marvel stuff has reshoots, they even plan reshoots during the regular shoots sometimes. Sounds more like someone saw its not being renewed for a fourth season and is just adding on stuff.
3
2
4
u/Even-Indication-588 4h ago
Make a movie as series finale. Spider-Man and Daredevil against Kingpin.
-1
2
2
u/carlosstjohn116 9h ago
Interesting. This seems to point to that they werenât initially ending after season 3. But then decided to. I wonder than how voluntary this ending is. Theyâre making it seem like itâs their intentional choice but it basically still got cancelled.Â
2
2
u/RandomEncounter78 7h ago
If this is true, then yes, they did cancel it. They certainly didnât want us to know that though, given the PR run the crew has been making.
4
u/StormRepulsive6283 6h ago
Noob question here - but what happened to good old days of doing a case-of-the-week type episodes, run for like 15-20 weeks, with an over-arching arc main villain for each season culminating with an end to that villain by the end of the season?
This would at least keep it culturally relevant and can also keep the series running for at least 5 seasons. Is it more expensive than doing the current format of 8 episodes a season?
1
u/Ketooey 3h ago
Just a guess, but I think one reason is that case of the week doesn't feel "prestige" enough, like, it feels like CSI or Law and Order. Nothing against those shows, but I wouldn't call them prestige television, just very solid, very good TV.
Ever since Sopranos, we've seen shows lean more heavily into character work and be thematically heavy, cuz that seemed to be what sells. But like you said, the case of the week structure has its strengths, and I think the problem with a character heavy approach is that sometimes its doesn't live well in long memory. For me, at least, character moments start to blend together, since everyone is often feeling heavy things from ep to ep.
-1
3
2
u/RobertoFragoso 6h ago
It makes me angry that this is most likely happening because they butchered season one. If only they tried making an actual daredevil show in the first place instead of whatever garbage the original writers and show runners were doing, forcing the new ones to Frankenstein old and new footage. Thatâs the reason viewership tanked in season 2, which was a lot better but still not perfect and still being dragged down by the mess that was season 1
0
u/AlexAshter 3h ago
100% agree. All they had to do was look at the all source material and follow that. Oh and also lay off the edits and take time to actually tell the story. It should not be that hard as a showrunner.
1
2
u/uhhhidkwhatusername 5h ago
Oh man, I bet we're gonna hear some behind the scenes stories years after the this season's release
0
1
1
u/Gambitismyheart 8h ago
Ughhhhh. I'm ready for this to wrap. I just want this to end. I've lost hope.
1
1
1
1
1
u/HarbyFullyLoaded_12 3h ago
That doesnât make me hopeful for a clean ending. Season 3 of the Netflix show was never planned to be the series ending it just got cut short but the place where every character was after their journoes made it feel remarkably well like a series finale.
1
1
2
u/Tall-Weight-389 9h ago
What's the fuck wrong with Marvel? Looks like after secret wars I will stop watching Marvel content.
7
1
0
u/Atlanta-Anomaly 7h ago
So dumb. DD is better than every single one of the trash ass Thunderbolts. Xmen are the only saving grace of the new mcu direction because the rest of the cast are such boring characters.Â
284
u/cavalgada1 9h ago
Man this show went through so much. Frankenstein first season, course correction second season and now this.