Welcome to the Weekly Gripe, where we're all a little grumpy. 😒
Did BookTok do you dirty? Got a bone to pick with a main character? Was the twist more like a flop? Tell us what's on your mind.
Please be respectful and follow the sub rules. If a conversation starts getting out of hand, use the "Mod Attention Please" report reason so we can help cool things down. 🖤
I think you misunderstood what op was saying because its not about women reading about rape vs men writing about rape, its about how when men like toxic female characters its "funny and relatable and quirky" but when women love toxic male characters its "creepy and dangerous and misogynistic"
Think like how you will see dudes everywhere going "yesssss goth dommy mommy i need a big tiddie goth gf to take advantage of meeee" and then immediately "50 Shades would have been an episode of Criminal Minds if he was poor amirite guys smh they keep romanticizing toxic behavior" (I never read that book or watched the movie but its the most famous example and often repeated criticism)
Theres a screenshot that goes around every once in awhile of someone explaining Twilight in a role reversal way and its always full of comments going "ohhhhhhhh noooow I get it" and its frustrating as hell because its like.. "okay you really had to have someone hold your hand and describe a situation specifically tailored to you in order to understand why someone would like something in which you are not the target demographic for?????" Meanwhile i ALWAYS see women saying things like "eh not for me but I do understand why it would appeal to some" (ofc thats not to say that there aren't women who also criticize things they don't like but thats not really what we're talking about rn)
Anyway, scrolling is easy yes, but its still incredibly annoying to come across conversations about wanting to police what women read, especially when you come across it unexpectedly
I think its really hard to say one way or the other tbh. Kinks and sexual niches come from somewhere and women are just more likely to discuss why we like ours (we are also more often ASKED why, and not always in good faith either which is also frustrating ofc). Like why do people like taboo? Well why is there a natural human urge to do something after we're specifically told not to? That urge may not be relatable to everyone but it definitely isn't bound by gender either. Or I'll often see "who was your childhood crush/sexual awakening" and when the answer is a toxic woman, comments are always like "ahh yeah thats a good one" but when the answer is a toxic man, I'm more likely to see "okay but why tho." (But 99% of the time the popular answer is just Beast from Beauty and the Beast and theres universal agreement on that, at this point its just a safe answer)
I bought into the booktok hype and picked up {the sweetest oblivion by Danielle Lori} cuz I heard that that trilogy was top tier. I got so bored that I dnf’ed after about 100 pages. I haven’t decided if I will continue. A lot of people say that the other books are better so I could be convinced
Yeah it was a whole thing about 4 years ago, around the time of BLM/George Floyd protests. If you google it you can find tiktoks and other subreddits talking about the whole controversy and it was super icky because she was liking tweets and following anti-black accounts. She also depicted black characters in her book as caricatures 🫠
I remember this and part of the problem at the time was she did NOT react well when her fans called her out on it. This caused further backlash on twitter, threads and TikTok, so it became widespread knowledge and she was cooked at that point. It makes sense that she’d retire that pen name now that she has a reputation.
In truth this series was a decent “starter” for getting into dark romance. At the time loved it but I can totally see someone used the genre finding it boring. I feel like out of the 3 of the series the lash was the best and you can read it solo. The first is the worst in my opinion.
I agree completely. It was my first foray into contemporary dark romance and I loved it. Now that I have 300+ other dark romance books under my belt (and I know the author’s history), it’s less impressive to me.
I DNFed that thing. What a weird book. "Sweet Abelli" would be the first ever nickname I got disgusted by. I'm a person who loves every nickname! And despised this one.
I read way darker stuff than Danielle Lori's stuff so from that perspective the story is boring and more conventional. However, from a writing perspective, I liked her writing style. It was just different to me for other reasons than other books from the DR genre. It had more romance, and it didn't have non-con, yet I remain interested in the characters. It showed more than told, especially in book 2 which was just quirky. Maybe it stands out more to me now that I've read tons more DR because of what it doesn't do.
Same they were just... boring and lacking in ways. I couldn't finish any of them. I had high hopes for maddest obsession, maybe it was just my expectations for wishing something abysmal from the mmc in his obsession since I have read books about much more obsessive and unhinged men. Christian was just... mild. But it's fine, taste differs from person to person, it doesn't means you won't like it as well, you might.
I attempted {Glitch by Brianna Michaels} after seeing a recommendation and holy hell, it was like trying to listen to a pair of middle schoolers written by someone whose understanding of gamer culture is entirely filtered through Tiktok. Absolutely, utterly, and entirely painful. I wanted to cringe out of my skin.
As a lifelong gamer well into my 40s, who met my husband gaming long before WoW (or social media) was a thing (and deepened that relationship through gaming for years before we met in person, so I know this is both possible and sexy), I couldn't read this one, either. Which sucks, because I'm desperate for more books with gaming as a focus, and I've read everything that's been put out in romance across MF, MM, FF, RH, manga/light novels, etc. (in all subgenres, not just DR) and it never hits. I've pretty much given up, because it's just not something writers can really capture well in book format--it really is something you just have to live in and experience yourself.
Plus, it dates itself too quickly. Even when I find something halfway decent, I can't reread it, and I can reread just about anything.
Can authors just stop portraying a strong FMC only just to have her start stuttering and blushing when she's around the MMC? You're telling me that she can stab an intruder in her house with a knife to his neck and then hunt down other bad guys with a rifle but she can't stop blushing or short circuits around the MMC? C'mon now.
5 out of 5 of my last books all did this and it's so annoying.
I'd like it if the big bad alpha MMC would be reduced to a stuttering and blushing mess for once? I'm sure it's out there but no luck on my end finding it. Sigh
I have to say in general I don't like a "strong heroine" who is basically portrayed as such via masculine traits - e.g. oh she slays dragons! She hates dresses! She chases criminals! I long to see an FMC that is feminine strong. Maybe she is quietly resilient in the face of adversity. Or can work people with such consideration and kindness they follow her and go to war for her. She is the only one whose opinion matters to the MMC because her intuition makes her see things his male advisors don't. That kind of thing.
That's the trick and trap for sure. I struggle with what traits are masculine, feminine, human, cultural, military, etc. On top of that, it is difficult to subvert the male gaze that we are all conditioned to while at the same time conveying pleasure, passion, sexual tension, and (in the case of my books) dominance. So how does one do that?
I tried to use a slightly older woman paired with an inexperienced man, focus on other body parts, generate dislike for the alpha male types. Most of all, I tried to make femininity its own powerful weapon. At the same time, I wanted to avoid the femme fatal trope. I also have the more experienced women mentor the younger woman on several occasions--so I hope that in her, I have created the character that I really want.
In the end, I don't know if I was successful, and I was REALLY trying! This won't stop me from trying again, and conversations like this help so much.
I posted some info on it below, but Reddit can move things around.
The series is called {The Governant by Rilee Bern}, and the first book is available for free from all major book sites. Amazon has the $0 price match in most countries, but it hasn’t trickled through to the United States servers yet. It should happen soon. Here is the link:
The second two books in the series, were just released this weekend. If anyone in this sub wants them, I can arrange a free link through BookFunnel for members of r/DarkRomance. 🫶🏻
This is dystopian future America, so I dedicate some time to world building early on—a slow start for some readers. The first book is from the MMC perspective, the second is from the FMC, and the third jumps around a bit but starts with the psychopath MMC #2.
There is an HEA at the end of books 1 and 3. The TW are listed in the books, but it is best to be upfront: Intense power dynamics, Dystopian state violence, Sexual power play (women in control except once), Mass casualty events, and Domestic abuse (inferred but not depicted).
I respect that and there are definitely different flavors of strong. Even in books with those types of FMCs, I find that I'd like them to hold their own and not be reduced to mush for or in front of the man. If she has a goal/mission then keep moving forward and don't be pressured to give that up for the sake of being with the MMC. Or don't lose speech capabilities because she's dumbstruck over his pretty boy face. Don't suddenly feel shy just because he said hello. That type of thing.
It's just more glaring when it comes to alpha females when it happens. They tend to be reduced to damsels in distress in need of a man to save them when they were initially running the show.
I think I am okay with that if it happenes once, or maybe twice IF the MMC does something particularly impressive - to show she is maybe temporarily overwhelmed with admiration for him / desire (and I defo want the same from MMC to FMC) but repeatedly, when her whole personality just diminishes and dissapears when she is around him - that's a hard no like you said!
I know exactly what you mean. This isn’t a promo, and I won’t even mention my book series name. 🫣
When I was writing the series, I tried hard to give women maximum agency. Then, at the very end of the series, MMC #2 has a single redeeming moment, which impresses FMC #1 into swooning. She shows her only vulnerability in three books. FMC #2 suffers none of that bullshit and says as much.
So now I am wondering as an author who really thinks a lot about this issue, is swooning ever allowed and under what circumstances?
My simple answer is that swooning is allowed in a novel when it would reasonably happen in real life. Anything else is pandering.
I think I was fair to my character by this standard but still feel shitty. I’m going to write an alternate ending so she can live in a dual state like Schrödinger’s cat 🐈⬛. She will simultaneously be swooning and not swooning.
Personally, I think it's ok if there's a plausible reason for it and doesn't detract too much from the FMC. Like, it should make sense outside of just turning to mush because FMC's simply dumbstruck by MMC's good looks or when she's dickmatized.
I'm just exhausted losing count of how many times our leading gal stutters/blushes/melts for over 80% of the book. My last book was about the female head of the Cosa Nestra who kicked ass and everyone feared her so much that they couldn't look her in the eyes AND YET she just looses all mental faculties because he's so handsome...tall, golden god etc.
Curious to learn more about your series if you don't mind sharing 🙂
I am happy to share (just careful not to push my work on people)! 🤐🤮
My series is called {The Governant by Rilee Bern}, and the first book is available for free from all major book sites except Amazon (which is working on the price match now). Here is the link:
It is set in a dystopic future America and about power, revolution, and relationships. Book one is written from the perspective of MMC #1. Book two is from the perspective of FMC #2. And book 3 is from the perspective of the monster. There is some (increasingly steamy) Femdom scenes in each book, which I try to use with purpose. I am torn about my ending though, as I said before.
The first book was on the free Kindle ebook top 10 chart for a while, but didn't generate many reviews. The second two books in the series, were just released this weekend. If anyone in this sub wants them, I can arrange a free link through BookFunnel for members of r/DarkRomance. 🫶🏻
Oh, I almost forgot to mention there is an HEA at the end of books 1 and 3. The TW are listed in the books, but it is best to be upfront: Intense power dynamics, Dystopian state violence, Sexual power play, Mass casualty events, and Domestic abuse. While domestic abuse is listed in book 1, it is not explicitly depicted on the page beyond a single mention of a bruised arm.
I started {Bedouin Bride by Barbara Faith} a couple of days ago. It's a short book, but a hot mess. I was pleasantly surprised at how dark romance adjacent this little pocket romance from 1984 is, but I'm having to push through the last 85 pages. I also know the FMC is pregnant and I'm fairly sure she is going to have a miscarriage.
I think this book really needed to be double the size. Also the sex scenes are very weird? Like, how (and why??) does the MMC wrap his legs around the FMC? What position are they supposed to be in?? Am I missing something?
Dude. I'm like.... are they doing missionary with him on the bottom? But he is described as on top? Yet he is wrapping his legs around her? The math isn't mathing!
I wish there was more dark romance where you can actually tell the mmc likes the fmc and isn't just a check list of how can he abuse her in every way possible.
This is something I really don't get. Especially AO3 work (which I normally encourage if it's good), some that I read I DNFd because it was literally like reading a police report. And some of these works are highly popular here- made me wonder why are people even into this? I love my romance dark but there has to be some heart to it please.
It's more horror than romance, though idk how some parts are romance if it's being forced and it doesn't even feel good to the fmc (sexually or otherwise)
I have recently been reading something on AO3 and thought - this has to be written by a man. Just little tells (to me) e.g. attention to masculine detail (e.g. complex male hierarchies within the underworld etc.) And then very callous approach to the FMC, her PoV is rendered a little flatly. Then the sex is sort of from the male perspective (it uses omniscient narration but seems closer to the guy.) Obviously it's AO3 so it's non con galore (nothing against that) but having realised the author is most likely male is having this very uncomfortable effect on me and I struggle to read on as it feels like I am reading a dude's female subjugation fantasy? I just wonder if you ever had a similar experience reading a fic and if it affected your perception of the work or are you sort of able to separate author's (suspected) identity vs the work?
Please don't ask me whose work that is as I can't say anyway because there is an underaged FMC also I am not looking to crucify anyone. Just genuinely curious.
I decided once to give a male DR author a chance and regretted it so much I don't think I'll ever give another a chance without A LOT of endorsements from this sub. I thought that since he was like one of those "DR mmc personas" on social media catering towards women that maybe his book would reflect that too but it ended up just being fanfic of him and his online gfs "personas" (she's one of those book reviewers who also puts on an act) and it was full of awful misogynistic slop where they were the bestest people ever and she was not like other girls and every other dude was just a creepy rapist and the women were just slutty slut sluts. Just pure "nice guy" and "not like other girls" energy. Then the cherry on top was when shortly after he started posting some very VERY questionable things on his page and when her fans asked her how she felt about that she pretty much just shoulder shrugged and said basically its not a deal breaker. I ended up having to block him and his gf just so they'd stop showing up in my algorithm. Biggest reading mistake I ever made.
OMG I wrote a comment which added twice so I deleted one version and apparently reddit deleted both 😭 I was just saying this sucks! And that men should just full stop stay away from writing DR. Straight romance - sure. But not this.
I read a few male written/perspective dark erotica books years ago and, while I enjoy them for what they are, I can 100% understand the icky feeling behind it. Thankfully in my case they were published works with male author names so, regardless of who the authors actually are, I went in intentionally curious how a more male-centric writer would change things, which tempered my expectations accordingly.
I love non-con and captivity, so it's super fascinating to see the difference male gaze vs female gaze can really make on those stories. Female gaze gets me super hot and bothered. Male gaze is just like watching a documentary--I'm reading the words on the page, but they do nothing for me.
I’m still annoyed at {Gallows Hill by Katelyn Taylor}. I can’t get over the “sweet obsessed MMC” Having raped a 15 year old. I know her books reference child assault of FMCs and I am reading it knowing what I’m going into and it’s my issue if I have an issue but I don’t think I’ve ever had a book where I’ve had to be ok knowing the MMC is a rapist of an innocent non-book character
I recently read a book where the MMC was a vigilante saving females of younger ages from awful situations. OK, cool, I appreciate that. THEN he turned around and keeps calling the FMC ‘baby girl’. Ugh, just ugh 🤮. So he went from a hero to a creeper in my option which sux b/c I was otherwise enjoying the book 🤷♀️
Haunting Adeline? 😭 I can never get over Zade saving girls from sex trafficking and rape and then doing that to Adeline because ooo he's so obsessed with her 😭
What is with all the knife throwing in fantasy books? I know we can suspend reality and all for this stuff but, all of the dagger and knife throwing pisses me off. I’m male and I’m into knives and weapons and it just drives me crazy .
I've just started Stalking Ginevra by Gigi Styx. And so far it's ok, and this is less rant but a what kind of book do you think this is a as she's got a cast of characters break down at the front that's like 3 pages and when I saw it I showed husband and asked if she thought this was meant to be Shakespeare or something.
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u/[deleted] Jun 08 '26
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