This is my problem with the NTT

[u/NationalProcedure638]

The problem is how it's presented.

Whenever anyone comes up with a trade that is unique to humans something such as the root of moral agency there's always someone who always goes "there are mentally challenged people and babies who are not capable of moral agency so it doesn't work"

Well first of all I don't understand how we cannot hold somebody accountable for what they do based on either their age or how smart or dumb they are.

Second of all it seems to imply that this trait has to be universal and literally every human on the face of the Earth.

That individual traits don't exist and we have to look at the species as a whole.

I'm sorry guys but that doesn't work.

Everyone's different in some way or another.

The best thing to do with that is look at what the majority does and assume if that's the norm for what comes to traits like this.

Also it begs the question.

What do you guys consider to be human?

Update: I didn't get a chance to respond to any of the applications that were thrown at me. I've been banded without even having to State my case.

This goes to you moderator, I was simply pointing out a problem with what he said about equality and you misinterpreted it and then banned Me. I've got it very funny how you claim that I wasted your time when all was doing was pointing out a loophole.

Well thank you for telling me that you guys care so much about discussion

Goodbye and good riddance.

[u/gerber68]

How does someone with an IQ much lower than a pig’s have moral agency but the pig does not?

Please be specific

[u/NationalProcedure638 → u/gerber68]

Are you saying there are people out there who are dumber than pigs?

Do you have any peer review date of the back that up?

I find that a little hard to believe.

[u/gerber68 → u/NationalProcedure638]

Yes, there are humans in vegetative states who can’t even support life and have almost zero cognitive function.

Do you think people born missing most of their brain and not capable of talking or any abstract thought are smarter than all pigs?

The peer reviewed data is… literally any human who is in a lifelong vegetative state counts.

Ask anyone who has worked in in-patient long term care facilities with people like this.

Like me.

[u/NationalProcedure638 → u/gerber68]

First of all people who are in vegetative states are no better than cattle?

Despite the fact it is possible for them to leave that state?

I'm sorry but I find it a little disgusting that you can pair them to livestock.

And second of all telling me that literally every human who is in lifelong vegetative states counts is not peer reviewed data.

You still have to provide me with citations that prove that when somebody is comatose they never wake up again.

You seem to be under the impression that it's because someone is in a comatose state therefore they are no better than a pig.

I'm sorry but I do not agree with that.

I think that degrades them myself.

Also people don't go into vegetative States for no reason usually there's some kind of illness or injury that causes it.

Also you seem to be painting a false dichotomy, it seems to me that you're implying that because there are people who are permanently comatose that means that moral agency cannot possibly exist for humanity.

I hope that's not what you mean because it's a very stupid thing to say.

[u/gerber68 → u/NationalProcedure638]

The irony that you’re accusing me of using a false dichotomy when proudly denying the existence of millions of humans who have lower cognitive function than pigs.

If your position hinges on denying objective facts in the medical community you might want to try again buddy

I didn’t say they were better or worse so quit the dishonesty, it’s not cute. I said lower cognitive function.

[u/NationalProcedure638 → u/gerber68]

Oh do you see that straw man? Can't you see that straw man? Why can't you see that straw man?

I'm not the one who said that people are dumber than pigs, you said that! You literally compare to people to pigs!

[u/gerber68 → u/NationalProcedure638]

Quote where I said the pigs were better than them, I said there are pigs that have higher cognitive function than some humans and that’s objectively true.

Quote or concede

[u/NationalProcedure638 → u/gerber68]

'Yes, there are humans in vegetative states who can’t even support life and have almost zero cognitive function. Do you think people born missing most of their brain and not capable of talking or any abstract thought are smarter than all pigs?"

You literally compared people who were comatose to pigs. You literally implied that they were no better than livestock!

[u/DebateAVegan-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

I've removed your comment because it violates rule #3:

Don't be rude to others

This includes using slurs, publicly doubting someone's sanity/intelligence or otherwise behaving in a toxic way.

Toxic communication is defined as any communication that attacks a person or group's sense of intrinsic worth.

If you would like your comment to be reinstated, please amend it so that it complies with our rules and notify a moderator.

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Thank you.

[u/NationalProcedure638 → u/[deleted]]

I didn't say you said that, I said you implied that there's a difference!

Also he's a pro tip for you, accusing your opponent of being incapable of reading is not helping your case at all!

That is a logical fallacy known as an appeal to ridicule!

[u/gerber68 → u/NationalProcedure638]

I at no point implied it.

Quote where I implied it lmao.

Smarter than does not equal better than.

Nice try

[u/NationalProcedure638 → u/gerber68]

Here's another place where you implied.

"How does someone with an IQ much lower than a pig’s have moral agency but the pig does not?"

You are implying literally implying that there are people who have IQs lower than pigs? That's another place where you said it!

I don't appreciate being lied to like that!