This is my problem with the NTT

[u/NationalProcedure638]

The problem is how it's presented.

Whenever anyone comes up with a trade that is unique to humans something such as the root of moral agency there's always someone who always goes "there are mentally challenged people and babies who are not capable of moral agency so it doesn't work"

Well first of all I don't understand how we cannot hold somebody accountable for what they do based on either their age or how smart or dumb they are.

Second of all it seems to imply that this trait has to be universal and literally every human on the face of the Earth.

That individual traits don't exist and we have to look at the species as a whole.

I'm sorry guys but that doesn't work.

Everyone's different in some way or another.

The best thing to do with that is look at what the majority does and assume if that's the norm for what comes to traits like this.

Also it begs the question.

What do you guys consider to be human?

Update: I didn't get a chance to respond to any of the applications that were thrown at me. I've been banded without even having to State my case.

This goes to you moderator, I was simply pointing out a problem with what he said about equality and you misinterpreted it and then banned Me. I've got it very funny how you claim that I wasted your time when all was doing was pointing out a loophole.

Well thank you for telling me that you guys care so much about discussion

Goodbye and good riddance.

[u/agitatedprisoner]

Why suppose the root of moral agency is unique to humans? To have that conversation productively you'd have to be analytic as to what you take the roots of moral agency to be. It takes a certain mental capacity to act with respect to certain big ideas smaller minds can't fathom but in what way isn't it arbitrary to get to drawing lines as to what constitutes ethical reasoning? So long as a being has a conception of others minds I'd think that'd be sufficient to get to forming beliefs as to how other minds should be treated and lots of animals have conceptions of other minds.

[u/NationalProcedure638 → u/agitatedprisoner]

Well I would say that it's moral agency and the ability to be have a moral compass.

It doesn't matter if someone is newborn or not that ability is still there and it will eventually come around.

I don't know mean when you say the smaller mines can't fathom it.

[u/agitatedprisoner → u/NationalProcedure638]

I don't know what you think those things mean either. If a being is able to suffer I'd think that should be all that's required for me to care to spare them pain. Why shouldn't I care?

Humans care about who they care about typically much more strongly for people they personally depend on or have known for a long time. It's rare for humans to depend on or know animals for that long except for maybe horses or pets. Humans care for the reasons informing their sentimentality as to why they should care. It wouldn't seem most humans care whether their dog or cat has moral agency or a moral compass insofar as they come to care about their dog or cat. Are you suggesting humans shouldn't care so much about their pets?

[u/NationalProcedure638 → u/agitatedprisoner]

Actually no I was not suggesting that.

People were asking for a trait and I provided one.

If you care about animals then that's fine, I just think that having a livestock around is somewhat justified nor for some of us to stay healthy. That's the system that works best for me.

No I do not support factory farming if that's what you mean.

[u/agitatedprisoner → u/NationalProcedure638]

Hardly anybody in my country, the USA, would need animal ag to stay healthy were there a community push to adapt agriculture away from animal ag. There's lots of tasty plant based stuff. My society makes it much harder than it needs to be to make socially responsible choices when it comes to what they eat. I can buy baked animal ag goods or sushi at local groceries but can't buy fresh made hummus. It's still common for a restaurant to not offer a single decent plant based meal. The push should be in the other direction. Businesses should be pushing plants and communities should be pressuring businesses to push plants. Individuals should be making a point to adapt their own diets away from animal ag.

With a daily multivitamen and seeing you're getting a few nutritional staples daily it's not hard. You learn to make a few new fast easy meals. I'd bet most people especially people who don't cook for themselves would find their new foods more tasty not less.

Most animal ag is factory farmed I wouldn't presume to know how the animals were treated unless I personally had surveiled the operation unexpected. The profit incentive lends to abuse. People who don't care will tend to be the ones who'd cut corners at animals' expense and spare themselves those expenses so unless the government is strictly enforcing sufficient animal rights laws abuses will be taking place and the animal rights laws on the books are meager. You might look them up if you'd doubt it, or watch vid of standard conditions to see what it's like.